Raw food question...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mocha'sMom

Mocha'sMom

Member Since 2013
My first vet who diagnosed my cat as diabetic said, make sure the food you are feeding is low in carbs and low in fat. Her reason was "Diabetic cats can't process fat properly". I ended up switching vets because she misdiagnosed one of his health problems. So now I am questioning her information.

Recently I ordered a lovely sampler pack of raw foods because of the amazing high protein values, and when I got the package noticed the fat was really high too! So I haven't given it to him yet. I haven't heard anyone on here being particularly concerned about fat content (other than the occasional already 'fluffy' kitty). Am I missing something? Is what my vet said true? Because of a long series of minor health problems, my cat has lost a lot of weight, so I want him to put more weight on, I'm not really concerned about him getting over weight at this point. This raw food I have could serve a dual purpose, increasing his protein intake, and maybe adding weight back on him. Thoughts? confused_cat

Right ohmygod_smile and here is the break down on the raw I bought:

Protein: 13 - 15%
Fat: 9 - 10%
Fiber: 1%

The ranges are b/c it is a sampler pack.
 
Hi Mocha's Mum,

I've never heard or read that fats (specifically) can be difficult for a diabetic cat to process. I have read/heard often, that food can be difficult for a diabetic cat to process (because of reduced insulin, and/or because of the body's inability to utilise insulin correctly). That's why untreated or poorly regulated diabetics can lose so much weight.

As I understand it cats need a diet that has a high protein content and a moderate fat content. Cat's bodies can process fats differently to ours and they are just fine with a fat content that would cause us to become obese or develop heart disease!

Here are a couple of extracts from a page written by (vet) Dr Lisa Pierson. She outlines what she considers to be the 'ideal' feline diet, but also goes on to say that lowering protein or increasing the fat content may not be a problem in certain circumstances:

Firstly:
“The composition of a feline diet is important because cats are designed to eat a high protein (~50% of calories, or more), moderate fat (~40% of calories or less), and very low carbohydrate (1-2% of calories) diet.”

But also:
“However, as noted above, cats do not necessarily need diets that are >50% protein and <40% fat. For instance, I have had ~550 cats and kittens go through my foster room over the years that have grown and thrived on adult canned Wellness - Chicken or Turkey. (I use Wellness because it comes in 12 ounce cans which are more economical than the smaller cans.)

Protein calories = ~30%
Fat calories = ~65%
Carbohydrate calories = ~5%”

Here is the link to the page these extracts came from: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

Here's a link to an online calculator that's helpful for calculating the calories from protein/fat/carbs etc of any given food:
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gac ... /index.php?

Eliz
 
His caloric requirements per day based on his ideal weight (I'm shooting for 9lbs) is 193 calories. Which would mean he should be eating ~3 cans if the FF that he is currently eating. At least those are the numbers I got based on a calculation I found in the forums.
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Here's a link to an online calculator that's helpful for calculating the calories from protein/fat/carbs etc of any given food:
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gac ... /index.php?

Eliz
Click to expand...

Is calculating the calories from protein/fat/carbs different than what I did? And if so, how do I use that information?

*Edit*
So, I just played around with the calculator, and if I am understanding everyone correctly, the FF (that it seems like a lot of people feed) actually doesn't have enough protein in it confused_cat
 
I started out with a kitten diabetic and most of the sites I read all said that kittens need higher protein food, so I looked for low carb foods with more than 50% protein/fat ratio (it should be closer to 140%, but that's difficult to find so I supplement about 20% of their food with pure protein or Tiki Cat Chicken) by creating this sorted version of Dr. Lisa's food list.

Further research makes me think that most all cats should have higher protein (barring any renal problems) so even though Mikey is no longer a kitten, I still look for those higher protein foods at a 52/36/12 protein/fat/carb (although for Mikey, it's 5% carb).
 
There is some correlation between fats and diabetic cats. It was explained to me at one point by a specialist, but it actually kinda went over my head at the time (there was a lot going on, a lot to absorb). He told me is was not uncommon for high amounts of lipids to be found in diabetic cats. So there is some kind of correlation there.

BUT Katie's blood was always highly lipidemic, even before the diabetes, her entire life. Her bloodwork always came back as a +4 on the lipidemic scale and even after ultra centrifusion, was hard to get accurate results. They said her blood serum looked a strawberry milkshake, where is should have a clear red.

Her cholesterol always high, triglycerides high, the specialist thought it was a genetic thing, because she had already been eating a (commercial) raw food diet for years and not overwieght. He even consulted with a bigwig at OSU vet college for treatment recommendations (there were none except the addition of more Omega 3 fatty acids). He also thought that was contributing to her pancreatitis and diabetes.

Fast forward to a year later, I started making Katie's food instead of buying the commercial stuff, using skinless chicken thighs, and hand trimming any big blobs of fat off them, very lowfat. But I also supplement with extra good fats in the form of fish oil and salmon oil. Three months later, her bloodwork showed only a lipemia index of +1 (0 or +1 is normal) for the first time in her life! Her cholesterol was still elevated, but down, her triglycerides good. She also went OTJ shortly thereafter.

I am not saying you have to go to the extremes I did, Katie is a unique case because her fatty blood. Cats need fat in their diet, it's essential, it's their primary energy source, but I would make sure the fat content is moderate, not exceptionally high.
That's my experience.
 
Hi Mocha's Mum,

In your initial post you gave the figures as listed in the 'analysis', ie, the percentages of protein, fat etc, as ingredients in the food.
If you enter those 'analysis' figures into the calculator I linked to you will get a different set of figures: the percentage of calories from protein, fat etc, in the food. It is these figures - the percentage of calories from protein/fat/carbs etc, that are referred to in the catinfo.org website food lists.

Here is the link to the food list:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

From what I saw (only looked briefly at the list, so could be wrong!) the Fancy Feast foods seemed fine for protein.
Some of them did appear a tad low on fat to me, but, a lot of commercial cat foods seem to have slightly lower fat than is deemed optimal. But cats seem to do just fine anyway! ;-)

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
From what I saw (only looked briefly at the list, so could be wrong!) the Fancy Feast foods seemed fine for protein.
Some of them did appear a tad low on fat to me, but, a lot of commercial cat foods seem to have slightly lower fat than is deemed optimal. But cats seem to do just fine anyway! ;-)
Click to expand...
When I put FF into the calculator you linked me (I am feeding beef & chicken flavors) the highest I got for protein was 48%. Is that okay? It isn't the >50% that is recommended for diabetic cats.
KPassa said:
I supplement about 20% of their food with pure protein or Tiki Cat Chicken
Click to expand...

I have seen you mention that in several posts KPassa, and I have thought about possibly doing the same. Tiki Cat is available at a local pet store here. They also have a brand called Bravo that looks promising. What other kinds of pure protein do you use?
 
The Tiki Cat is formulated as a complete diet, but it's too expensive for me to use exclusively or all the time. If Mikey is running higher numbers, bouncing, or has a missed/fur shot, then that's all I'll feed them to help his numbers start coming down back into his normal range faster. Last night, for instance, I fed them a new food (Weruva Chicken Frick 'A Zee) and he spiked all the way up to 304 (still not sure if it was the food or a fur shot or a bounce). So, all I've been feeding them since then is the Tiki Cat Chicken and Egg and he's now back down to 186 at his +6.

To supplement, I mostly use plain chicken breast since that's what I usually have on hand. If I'm making it for myself, I'll give some of it to them raw and then boil some and refrigerated for later meals. I use it as a topping on their regular food so I don't feed them too much of it (not nutritionally complete for a cat).

ETA: I should also mention that I arrived at that 50% protein:fat ratio because any more fat seems to make Mikey run higher numbers. ECID!
 
I have noticed that only the fish Weruva flavors are good for Mocha. But he started refusing the Weruva so I had to find something else :roll:
 
Hello Everyone,
could anyone comment on what I've been told re fats: "hi fat content is bad for older cats' kidneys." I don't have %s to cite or age. Is it a true statement if age &/or DM is taken into consideration? My OTJ kitty is nearing 14 y/o. Thanks for your time.
Best wishes,
Sophie
 
Mocha'sMom said:
When I put FF into the calculator you linked me (I am feeding beef & chicken flavors) the highest I got for protein was 48%. Is that okay? It isn't the >50% that is recommended for diabetic cats.
Click to expand...

Hi Mocha's Mom (sorry, don't know your name!),

Yes, 48% is good! The figures quoted in the catinfo.org website are given as (I think..) 'what a cat has evolved to eat'. But Dr Pierson goes on to say - further down the page - that cats do no necessarily need food in that ratio:

“However, as noted above, cats do not necessarily need diets that are >50% protein and <40% fat. For instance, I have had ~550 cats and kittens go through my foster room over the years that have grown and thrived on adult canned Wellness - Chicken or Turkey...)
Protein calories = ~30%
Fat calories = ~65%
Carbohydrate calories = ~5%”

I just looked at the protein content of the canned foods I regularly feed my cats (I'm in the UK so they are different brands), but they all come out at between 37 - 47%. And my cats have done very well indeed on these foods. :smile:

Are you going to go ahead with trying the raw food?

Eliz
 
sophie said:
Hello Everyone,
could anyone comment on what I've been told re fats: "hi fat content is bad for older cats' kidneys." I don't have %s to cite or age. Is it a true statement if age &/or DM is taken into consideration? My OTJ kitty is nearing 14 y/o. Thanks for your time.
Best wishes,
Sophie
Click to expand...
Hi Sophie,

My understanding was that fat is OK for the kidneys, so I just went to the feline CRF site to check that out and found this:
"Fat does not result in a lot of waste products like protein, so processing it is not a strain on the kidneys..."
That info came from the following page which is well worth reading through: http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm
And I highly recommend 'Tanya's CRF' site for any cat that may have kidney issues. There is a wealth of information there.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
And I highly recommend 'Tanya's CRF' site for any cat that may have kidney issues. There is a wealth of information there.

Eliz
Click to expand...

A little off topic, but I also found Tanya's page to be a huge help with my civie who is a RF cat.

And Eliz, my name is Cheryl. Nice to meet you :smile:

I guess I won't be so concerned about that 48% then. He seems to be doing well on it (all things considered :? ) and can't get enough of it. He gave up dry food all on his own once I started offering this food to him. :mrgreen: and I think I will look into the raw diet, a local pet store has some nice options listed on their website. But I need to check to costs in person. I don't think I can do the "make your own" route at this point. One step at a time...
 
Elizabeth,

thank you very much. I truly appreciate your help since my searches are often lacking in good results.
Best wishes,
Sophie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top