Raw food... need advice

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kimouette

kimouette

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Since my cat has wet eyes and recurrent itching problem (face, ears, neck and she's been vomiting hair everyday for the past 2 weeks!), I'd like to start feeding her with raw food and see if maybe it is all related to a nutrition problem.

I have already tried to switch food many times, but since food allergies seem to take weeks (some even say months!) to disappear I have never quite found a real solution.

Maybe the problem does not come from the food, but at least I'll have definitely eliminate ONE possibility!

Of course I still want to feed her low carb food, but I dont know where to start. What else does she need other than meat and taurine? Do all the other vitamines and minerals have to be supplemented? or are there simple recipes that would include a well balance, complete and healthy daily meal for her?

Will I need to feed her with vegetables? and what about calcium? Is she supposed to eat bones?

I know I know, so many question, I feel like such a newbie... AGAIN!
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When I first attempted (and failed) to switch my cats to raw, I picked up Instinct Frozen Medallions at the pet food store. While they really didn't go for that, they do love the overly expensive Stella & Chewy's freeze-dried raw. And someone had highly recommended Country Pet Naturals which are lightly cooked and frozen.

Also, if you don't want to grind the bones, you can get a pre-mix (TCFeline) of the bone meal and vitamins to add to what you grind. The pre-mix listed on the catinfo.org website is only available in Canada, but I had emailed them and there is a distributor in Oregon (he doesn't sell retail) you can contact, or check his site and see if there is a retailer near you who carries the pre-mix. His website is Know Bones Pet Supply.

Anyway, your post was a good reminder for me that I would still like to switch my pets over to a raw diet one day as most of the canned low-carb foods have way too much fat content, imho.

Suze
 
kimouette said:
Of course I still want to feed her low carb food, but I dont know where to start. What else does she need other than meat and taurine? Do all the other vitamines and minerals have to be supplemented? or are there simple recipes that would include a well balance, complete and healthy daily meal for her?
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IMO, there are several ways to feed raw.

The easiest but not always the cheapest is to buy a commerical raw pet food. There are lots of brands out there, some are ok for diabetics and some not. Nature's Variety makes a frozen raw which is ok for diabetics. The NV freeze dried are treats/supplemental food only, not a complete diet. Primal Pet is another good frozen raw food. Stella and Chewy's makes a freeze dried complete diet for cats. You do need to rehydrate the food in water for a few minutes before serving.

The "next step up" from commerical raw is semi-homemade raw. You use the store bought raw meats of your choice with a powdered premix. The premix contains all the vitamins and minerals your cat need.s TC Feline, Alnutrin, Better In The Raw, and Feline Instincts are some brands.

Then there is making your own raw from a recipie. Dr. Lisa has a good one on her web site.

Some people feed a "frankenyprey model" which is meats and bones and organs and no extra supplements. This mimics what a cat in the wild would eat, 80% meat 10% bone 10% organs.

Will I need to feed her with vegetables? and what about calcium? Is she supposed to eat bones?
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Cats are obligate carnivores and have absolutely no need at all for fruits and veggies. Commerical pet foods, even some raw, include fruits and veggies as filler ingredients and to appeal to Humans' perception of what a healthy wholesome diet is. My two cents about that.

If you use a recipie, it should include a calcium supplement of some sort. Premixes contain calcium along with all the other vitamins and minerals. Commerical raw will have calcium in it.

Very finely ground bone can be eaten. Dr. Lisa's web site has a picture of what size bone NOT to feed. Some people here give large chunks of raw poultry necks and wings for the cat to gnaw on for dental health.

You can buy raw meat from the supermarket or butcher shop. There are online web sites for raw meat for making raw pet food, such as Hare-Today.com
 
What everyone else said!

You can pick up a small package of chicken thighs, lightly cook the outside of one thigh to kill surface bacteria, throw it in ice water to stop cooking it, then cut up some of the meat and see what your cat does. If they like it, move forward to feeding raw recipes mentioned above. Feeding just the thighs over a long period of time can result in deficiencies. But just to try it to see if your cat will eat it, they'll be fine.

Mine went from purring to growling, me yelling for them to hush, then repeat. :lol: I can feed raw cheaper than I can ANY canned because I watch for BOGO sales on thighs.
 
The commercial raw petfood alternative sounds interesting but I cant find any in Switzerland!

Dr. Lisa has a raw food recipe that you may find helpful. Here check it out: www.catinfo.org
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Why does she say that this recipe is not suitable for cats with CRF? My cat does not have CRF... but her last blood analysis showed that her creatine numbers are slowly incresing. So even though I dont want to treat her for that specific disease I was hoping for something not TOO high in phosphorus. Is that why that recipe is not CRF suitable? Because it has too much phosphorus? How can I determine that if I feed raw food?

I still haven't chose between raw feeding with bones (to avoid supplements) or grind meat with supplements... I guess my cat is gonna have the last word!
But if I do need to supplement, I found 2 supplements that claim to be complete. Here's the link (translated from german with google):
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... ezAb6QctoQ

I'll try to compare these two with the ones Squeem3 mentionned (TC Feline, Alnutrin, Better In The Raw, and Feline Instincts )

I hope she accepts to eat the whole thing! That would be great for her teeth and less complicated in terms of supplements!
 
I believe that it has to do with phosphorus, and it is my understanding that any raw diet is going to supply more than is necessary for a CRF cat. However, if your cat's lab work is concerning, I'd look into a consultation with Dr. Pierson. I'd rather feed what she recommends for CRF (if/when the time comes) than what can be bought in a can. That's just my own opinion, not medical advice. Others here would be better than me to advise on your cats numbers for CRF, Grey was diagnosed at stage 4 so there wasn't a whole lot I could do.

As far as premixes, I liked them and so did my cats. Here's what I found interesting while feeding premixes: my cats' health improved, but while deboning the meat they would fight for the bones. They would bust open the bones and eat the marrow as well as the cartilage ends. When my grinder finally came in (it was on back order) and I started grinding, they no longer craved the bone. I think the premixes are great, but I tend to agree with Dr. Pierson that bone meal isn't the same as bone. Premixes are pretty pricey too, but I wanted to give it a shot before investing in the grinder and deep freezer (which I always wanted, but it's so easy to blame the cats!). The premixes were worth the price at the time, but I like grinding better for my guys long term. I throw gizzards at them for teeth cleaning.

The site you posted, they look OK. That's another thing I like about grinding: I add more taurine and fish oil due to not knowing how fast it degrades.
 
You might want to try your cat on raw bones to see if she likes it. My FD cat loves bones, my other one not so much. So far I've tried pieces of chicken neck and want to try chicken wing tips next. My non FD cat gets ground buffalo bones added in to the meals that don't already have ground bone in them. Around where I live, there are several companies that make raw food for pets, and the red meat choices generally have bone powder added. I've also heard you can use cooked egg shells crumbled but that there is some question how great that calcium is.

Depending on how popular raw pet food is where you live, you may find it in unexpected places. There is a butcher that imports specialty meats (for people) near me, and they also manufacture raw pet food for dogs/cats. I've also seen it in a Norwegian specialty deli. Both already have supplements added so it's just a matter of opening the package and serving. The trickiest thing is getting nutritional information so that you can determine percent of carbs. I've only found one local manufacturer that knows the "as fed" values so I can calculate the carb #s. That's the one I'm mostly sticking with for now. As others have mentioned, some add veggies and some don't. Even if they do, it should be less than 2% of total volume. The theory I've heard is that mice/birds have some fruit/veggies in their stomach so that is how cats get some vitamins. I don't know if it's true.

If you have a vet that supports raw food diet, then he/she may also have suggestions where to get the food.
 
I bought 2 kilos of chicken necks and my cat wont touch it : either raw or cooked and even cooked with fish oil on it, she would lick the fish oil and not even try to bite the chicken. She just doesn't care about chicken necks!
I dont know what I should try next, but she is just toooo picky. I'm almost 100% sure now that she will avoid every piece of meat that could be good for her teeth!
Damn little princess grr_red
I guess the only thing left is to buy each and every sort of meat at the butcher and see if she will dare take a bite in any of them!

Feline's Pride will send you a free sample
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They would if I lived in the States ;-)

I found 2 Swiss companies that sell raw food for cats and dogs: one that delivers and one that doesn't

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... wtqbjP1Tlg

and

http://www.naturadog.ch/produits.html

But there's no way I could buy tiny little pieces of meats with these 2 companies, so I'll buy from the butcher first.
 
Bones should never be fed cooked. The bones become more brittle and can splinter and cause damage internally.

I feed about one inch (2 cm) of chicken neck at a time. My civie would not initially eat chicken necks. I chopped them into smaller pieces and after coaxing, he got it. I fed them when he was hungry and before getting his regular meal.

Raw dog food usually has a much higher percentage of vegetables than raw cat food, so it's good not to go with that one. Good luck with the butcher.
 
Bones should never be fed cooked. The bones become more brittle and can splinter and cause damage internally.
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You're right to point that out! I was already aware of the danger of cooked bones and dont worry when I TRIED to feed my cat with a cooked chicken neck, I was standing right in front of her and was prepared to take it away from her if she would have started to take big bites out of it. But since she only licked the fish oil that covered the meat, there was no danger.
I feed about one inch (2 cm) of chicken neck at a time. My civie would not initially eat chicken necks. I chopped them into smaller pieces and after coaxing, he got it. I fed them when he was hungry and before getting his regular meal.
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I will try to do the same this evening (before her evening meal) and see if she will dare eat it if it's just a tiny little piece of chicken!
It's weird the way she acts... like a canned food addict! Couple of months ago, before her diabetes, when she was eating only dry food, she would eat pieces of chicken if I gave it to her... seems like high quality canned food has changed her diet habits.
Raw dog food usually has a much higher percentage of vegetables than raw cat food, so it's good not to go with that one. Good luck with the butcher.
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I know that also. The food I am looking at from the 2 raw feeding companies are the ones 100% raw, not the BARF ones (that include vegetables for dogs).

Maybe i'l have more chance with the grind meat since it looks more like the food she is currently eating. But it's too bad she wont eat meaty bones since it the only thing that could clean her teeth
 
Another way to "test" foods is to buy meats that you would eat. Cut up some of this meat and give it to your cat. The rest you can then cook and eat yourself.

You may find that it may take a while for your cat to realize that either raw cut up food or even cooked food is food and something she may like. It didn't happen immediately with my cats and I have one that won't touch raw food. Yet, if it's on my plate for my eating, she can't get enough, chicken, steak, pork, whatever, she wants it.

Another thing you can try if your store sells already cooked rotisserie style chicken or other meats, buy it for yourself and share with the cat. Just make sure that any spices or flavorings you keep for yourself and give the cat plain meat (or as spice free as possible).

Now, eating cooked like this is more of a treat than a meal, but it's a start to see if you can get her interested.
 
Try other parts of the chicken. Thighs, breasts, wings, gizzards...and correct about cooked bone being dangerous to feed! Since the thighs are still frozen when I put them in a 550 degree oven to kill surface bacteria, the inside of the thigh is still frozen when I take them out of the oven. Oh, and as far as trying ground meats, be cautious about buying preground meats. If there was any bacteria on the surface of the meat before grinding, the blades will have drug it through the meat and mixed the bacteria in with the meat.

As far as enticing kitty to try a new food, coating in fortiflora or parmesan may help. Maybe cream cheese (neufchatel?) spread on it? Anything low carb that will stick to it.
 
Is freeze dried raw pet food available in Switzerland? I got my rescued civie to eat raw food by first feeding her freeze dried raw with her canned food, then freeze dried raw food with canned food and a little raw food mixed in, then freeze dried raw on raw food. Then I just stopped feeding the freeze dried and she kept eating the plain raw :smile: Freeze dried meat treats may work as well.
 
squeem3 said:
Is freeze dried raw pet food available in Switzerland? I got my rescued civie to eat raw food by first feeding her freeze dried raw with her canned food, then freeze dried raw food with canned food and a little raw food mixed in, then freeze dried raw on raw food. Then I just stopped feeding the freeze dried and she kept eating the plain raw :smile: Freeze dried meat treats may work as well.
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Yes I found raw pet food that I could order from the net. But the problem is... I'm not willing to pay the high price without knowing if this is all gonna go to waste! She is so good at wasting food that I'm not gonna buy anything she will not have dare to eat before. And at this point, pork, beef, chicken neck and duck doesn't work! For all these meats I tried cooked, raw, in big pieces and in tiny pieces... she wont touch it. BUT I found out that COOKED chicken breast is ok.. she is not delighted by it, but atleast she accepts to eat couple of tiny bites.

Next time I buy chicken breasts I'll try to add some raw pieces into her canned food.. but I know her so well, she will pick the pieces she likes and leave the bigger chunks ( she already does that with the content of her canned food ) and of course the raw chicken, on the carpet!

Since my goal is to get her to eat anything that will help keep her teeth clean, I'm not sure I should insist with cooked meat (even though this is all she is willing to eat).
Maybe if she is really starving... but I dont want to do that!
 
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