RAFFY 0n 8.0U

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I suspect that during yesterday's PM cycle he went down to a BG much lower than his body is accustomed to. Most kitties BG runs lower during the overnight cycle.

It's important to get st least one test for each overnight cycle. Also, whenever you shoot a PS that is considerably lower than any PS you have ever shot it's a good idea to get +2. If the +2 is the same or lower than PS it's a signal to keep a closer watch on Raffys BG in case you need to intervene.
 
Does Raffy have any other health issues? Can I ask what Raffy eats? dry ,wet or raw?
Raffys numbers are too high you want them down below 200 and lower.
Have you had blood work recently or a checkup for Raffy?
 
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
I suspect that during yesterday's PM cycle he went down to a BG much lower than his body is accustomed to. Most kitties BG runs lower during the overnight cycle.

It's important to get st least one test for each overnight cycle. Also, whenever you shoot a PS that is considerably lower than any PS you have ever shot it's a good idea to get +2. If the +2 is the same or lower than PS it's a signal to keep a closer watch on Raffys BG in case you need to intervene.
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Yesterday evening, i gave the shot and left the house beacuse of my interesting duty time:).
That is why i could not make a BG check.
Since July, yesterday was our best day, to see yellows etc.... Anyway let's keep on dosing ....
 
DebG said:
Does Raffy have any other health issues? Can I ask what Raffy eats? dry ,wet or raw?
Raffys numbers are too high you want them down below 200 and lower.
Have you had blood work recently or a checkup for Raffy?
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Four mounths ago, he gets treatment for both
pancreatitis and liver disease.
He eats low carb wet food and very often raw .
He has had whole blood work every six mounths.
 
I wonder if what your treating him for causes higher BG's? I sure would like to see his numbers coming down. You don't want them to stay in higher numbers as their bodies go this is the norm
If it's ok lets see if others can peek and see why the numbers are staying high.
@Wendy&Neko or @Doodles & Karen can you please check the SS and offer advice to try and get these numbers coming down.Thanks ladies
 
@DebG we've already had the conversation about high dose conditions.

At this point, Raffy is bouncing from that unfamiliar yellow or lower the other night. It can take six cycles to break the bounce. If you see numbers trending down at night, and your wife still can't test, make sure you leave lots of food out to help Raffy keep safe. It took forever for my husband to learn to test too.

At some point Gurkhan, you might want to talk to the vet about getting blood sent to the Royal Veterinary Collge for testing for acromegaly. The other common high dose condition we see here, IAA or insulin autobodies, is not tested at RVC. If your vet has no clue (not uncommon), you may need to contact RVC directly to find out what they need.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
@DebG we've already had the conversation about high dose conditions.

At this point, Raffy is bouncing from that unfamiliar yellow or lower the other night. It can take six cycles to break the bounce. If you see numbers trending down at night, and your wife still can't test, make sure you leave lots of food out to help Raffy keep safe. It took forever for my husband to learn to test too.

At some point Gurkhan, you might want to talk to the vet about getting blood sent to the Royal Veterinary Collge for testing for acromegaly. The other common high dose condition we see here, IAA or insulin autobodies, is not tested at RVC. If your vet has no clue (not uncommon), you may need to contact RVC directly to find out what they need.
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Dear Wendy, my wife became a master of making tests :)
We are giving the PM shot at 8:00 pm, so after our best for the night check is +5... Right now i make a test , which is +3,5 BG is 370. PMPS was 415. I think , Raffy is giving response but not good enough.
Sending a blood sample to UK is not a big problem, but if Raffy is a Acro Cat; i have no chance for the treatment in Istanbul...:(
 
Gurkan said:
but if Raffy is a Acro Cat; i have no chance for the treatment in Istanbul...:(
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There are a couple of medical options that are new in the treatment of acrocats, thanks to the research at the Royal Veterinary College. Pasireeotide (Signifor LAR) is the best of them, but rather expensive, at least in North America and England. A new drug being tried is called cabergoline, and we have a few acrokitties here on it. But I'd want to verify he had acromegaly before starting that drug. There is a discussion on cabergoline in the high dose forum and a few kitties here who are trying it. The other reason for knowing if a kitty has acromegally is being able to manage any side effects from the excess growth hormone.

Yeah for your wife giving the poke! :joyful: Tell her, welcome to the vampire club. :cool: Even a +4 test at night will give you lots of information about how the cycle is going. If it's a huge drop from the preshot, then setting an alarm for a later test may be a good idea.
 
If we keep on testing like this , we ll need 2 more new ears :))
+3,5 370-+4,5 350.... He usually shows nadir at +8 or +9.
Huge drop is something below 200s?
 
Something below 200 would be a good idea to get another test, if it's a big drop from preshot time. You can see that he's dropping slowly now so it's OK to call it a night.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Something below 200 would be a good idea to get another test, if it's a big drop from preshot time. You can see that he's dropping slowly now so it's OK to call it a night.
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As usual; we saw yellows then they suddenly became red again . That cat makes me crazy. Same life style , diffirent colors :)
 
Few weeks back you switched to human meter ......please keep in mind that human meters read lower than pet-specific meters.
It's pretty tough to compare the old numbers with the new ones.
 
Toronto & Ovi said:
Few weeks back you switched to human meter ......please keep in mind that human meters read lower than pet-specific meters.
It's pretty tough to compare the old numbers with the new ones.
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I m sure human calibrated meters show lower, but here it is not possible to find AlphaTrak stripes...
And as you told, it is impossible to compare these two datas.
Red is red , pink is pink :) Hope to see diffirent colors, maybe soon maybe never :(
But you have to know that it is very difficult to live with diabetic Raffy, always hungry, always crying etc..
 
Gurkan said:
I m sure human calibrated meters show lower, but here it is not possible to find AlphaTrak stripes...
And as you told, it is impossible to compare these two datas.
Red is red , pink is pink :) Hope to see diffirent colors, maybe soon maybe never :(
But you have to know that it is very difficult to live with diabetic Raffy, always hungry, always crying etc..
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Don't try comparing human meter and pet meter numbers. High is high on either meter. Increase to 9 u after 6 cycles.
 
Gurkan said:
T

Thanks Kris, in a short while we ll reach 2 digits doses...:)
Do you think switching from Levemir to Lantus can be good for him?
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Many people with high dose kitties are giving double digit doses. If the high dose requirement is due to the presence of insulin antibodies, the dose will likely decrease a lot when the antibodies are overcome. It can be a condition that ends after about a year or so. If it caused by acro, then your kitty will be a high dose kitty unless the acro is treated.

As for Levemir versus Lantus, some people switch to Lev because Lantus is acidic and a large dose can sting the kitty. Both are U100 depot insulins and are similar in their action. Lev is even slower acting than Lantus and can help to calm down kitties who are very volatile in their response to insulin. My cat is like that so I have just switched him to Lev to see if it helps.
 
Gurkan said:
Do you think switching from Levemir to Lantus can be good for him?
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No, don't switch to Lantus. Levemir is slightly longer lasting that Lantus and Lantus stings at higher doses. Most people with higher doses cats switch from Lantus to Levemir as their kitties seem to be flatter and do better on Lev.

Kris & Teasel said:
If it caused by acro, then your kitty will be a high dose kitty unless the acro is treated.
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It's time to bust a few myths about acromegaly. It is not true that acro means a high dose. We call acromegaly a high dose condition, but it doesn't always mean a high dose. We have one member on board with an acrokitty on 2.5 units of Prozinc. And that kitty got tested for acromegaly because the caregiver has a smart vet - saw a cat unregulated after 6 months of insulin and suggested testing for acromegaly. We've had other acrokitties in good numbers under 5 units. The part about needing treatment before the dose comes down is also untrue. The pituitary tumour can pulse up and pulse down over time. As an example, Wes's Jack has not been treated. He got up over 30 units, and is now down to 9 units. We've had other kitties go up and come down to under 5 units as the tumour changed. These changes are also why we strongly suggest testing. The number one cause of death of acromegalic cats is a hypo.

Cats with a "high dose" condition need however much insulin they need and it can vary over time. Each cat is really different. There is a dose out there that will start bringing better numbers to Raffy - you will find it. Keeping on top of the increases, as long as you are testing enough, is what you need to do. If you reach a total of 10 units, the increments will be by 1 unit at a time.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
No, don't switch to Lantus. Levemir is slightly longer lasting that Lantus and Lantus stings at higher doses. Most people with higher doses cats switch from Lantus to Levemir as their kitties seem to be flatter and do better on Lev.


It's time to bust a few myths about acromegaly. It is not true that acro means a high dose. We call acromegaly a high dose condition, but it doesn't always mean a high dose. We have one member on board with an acrokitty on 2.5 units of Prozinc. And that kitty got tested for acromegaly because the caregiver has a smart vet - saw a cat unregulated after 6 months of insulin and suggested testing for acromegaly. We've had other acrokitties in good numbers under 5 units. The part about needing treatment before the dose comes down is also untrue. The pituitary tumour can pulse up and pulse down over time. As an example, Wes's Jack has not been treated. He got up over 30 units, and is now down to 9 units. We've had other kitties go up and come down to under 5 units as the tumour changed. These changes are also why we strongly suggest testing. The number one cause of death of acromegalic cats is a hypo.

Cats with a "high dose" condition need however much insulin they need and it can vary over time. Each cat is really different. There is a dose out there that will start bringing better numbers to Raffy - you will find it. Keeping on top of the increases, as long as you are testing enough, is what you need to do. If you reach a total of 10 units, the increments will be by 1 unit at a time.
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Thanks for clarifying that, Wendy.
 
sounds like bounces.... Marvin is an Acro Kitty, we tried the new experimental drug treatment and it worked to get Marvin Diabetes under control. If you can get the test done, and can get the medication in Turkey, it maybe worth a try. Happy to see those yellow boxes on Raffy's SS.
 
It is strange; same food , same life style but BG levels with 9,5U are higher than results with 9 even with 8,5 U.....
Any advice?
 
Gurkan said:
It is strange; same food , same life style but BG levels with 9,5U are higher than results with 9 even with 8,5 U.....
Any advice?
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I think you need to keep up the regular dose increases. He's a high dose cat and probably has built up some glucose toxicity because his BG has been high a long time. They're less responsive to insulin when this happens but dose increases will get you somewhere eventually. Try to focus on trends only, not individual numbers.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think you need to keep up the regular dose increases. He's a high dose cat and probably has built up some glucose toxicity because his BG has been high a long time. They're less responsive to insulin when this happens but dose increases will get you somewhere eventually. Try to focus on trends only, not individual numbers.
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Today was much more diffirent.... He has started the day with 378, my wife made a spot check at +10 and she saw a interesting number...208 :)
PMPS was 295 but +3 420 again.
So fast going up and down.
 
Yes, it what we call bouncing... since his body is not use to lower numbers, it panics and causes his BG to bounce... go up. It can take up to a 6 cycles for a bounce to clear. Once he get used to better numbers the bounces should smaller. Every Cat is different, some always bounce other get used to it and clear the bounces quickly.
 
Marvin's Mom - Nat said:
Yes, it what we call bouncing... since his body is not use to lower numbers, it panics and causes his BG to bounce... go up. It can take up to a 6 cycles for a bounce to clear. Once he get used to better numbers the bounces should smaller. Every Cat is different, some always bounce other get used to it and clear the bounces quickly.
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Nat, i think i ve to change his name as Bouncy :)
Today we ve reached 10U; but the good thing is his BG level hangs around 250-275s...You know, our standart was 350-450s...Time to change the colour code yellow to blues...
 
Gurkan said:
Nat, i think i ve to change his name as Bouncy :)
Today we ve reached 10U; but the good thing is his BG level hangs around 250-275s...You know, our standart was 350-450s...Time to change the colour code yellow to blues...
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Morning Gurkan, Titan did the same thing bouncing big blacks down to pinks and back going from 7units or so to 10.5. Then we broke through at 11 units and his bounces have settled down with pinks and yellows starting to dominate the colour pallet. Seems like Raffy and Titan are sitting in the same row and seat number :cat:
 
Good luck with the dosecrease, keeping paws crossed for some blue.
He almost made it on the 1st October with that 207 (who knows he may have dipped into blue a little earlier in the cycle).

Congratulations on your wife joining the pokie club! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Just a reminder, now that you've reached 10u the next dosecrease would be taken in 1u steps (unless he started to see blue on this dose, in which case you might want to be a little more cautious)

Work the juice Raffy.
 
MyTitan said:
Morning Gurkan, Titan did the same thing bouncing big blacks down to pinks and back going from 7units or so to 10.5. Then we broke through at 11 units and his bounces have settled down with pinks and yellows starting to dominate the colour pallet. Seems like Raffy and Titan are sitting in the same row and seat number :cat:
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I am so happy to hear , you are out of the black hole :)
I think none of the Airliner componies will accept these walking insulin depots in A/C . :)
 
Gill & George said:
Good luck with the dosecrease, keeping paws crossed for some blue.
He almost made it on the 1st October with that 207 (who knows he may have dipped into blue a little earlier in the cycle).

Congratulations on your wife joining the pokie club! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Just a reminder, now that you've reached 10u the next dosecrease would be taken in 1u steps (unless he started to see blue on this dose, in which case you might want to be a little more cautious)

Work the juice Raffy.
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He does not like 10 units :). BG with 9,5u was much morr better.
Do you think, should i increase the dose after sixth shot or wait more ?
And should i go up directly to 11U?
 
He looks pretty high and flat, though my slight concern is no BG tests last night, please try to always get a BG test in the pm cycle, you never know when they might hit that break through dose.

If you don't see any yellow tonight I think i would increase to 11u in the morning.
 
I have no reason based on facts for saying this, but I think I would hold one more day, just in case he is holding his bounce longer.
 
This evening i gave third shot with 11U. Interesting thing is ; with 9 and 9,5U we saw much more better results.
But; Raffy is drinking less water than he used to drink, and much more calm at +3 after the shots.
But still living in the kitchen, this is his life style :)
 
We saw very similar results with Titan. Very good response to insulin in the 7-9 units but still holding fast to the pinks and reds with an occasional dip into yellow. Then we could tell at 11u he was really starting to respond to the juice with pinks and yellows dominating the SS, the bump up to 12u brought us our first green last nite. I think Raffy is doing well. Lots up ups and downs but the trend is down. I could issue him a holding clearance at the yellow/blue range if you think it will help. I never held or turned an airplane I did not like :). Same for cats!
 
MyTitan said:
We saw very similar results with Titan. Very good response to insulin in the 7-9 units but still holding fast to the pinks and reds with an occasional dip into yellow. Then we could tell at 11u he was really starting to respond to the juice with pinks and yellows dominating the SS, the bump up to 12u brought us our first green last nite. I think Raffy is doing well. Lots up ups and downs but the trend is down. I could issue him a holding clearance at the yellow/blue range if you think it will help. I never held or turned an airplane I did not like :). Same for cats!
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Thx Ed, Raffy is trying to cross the Red stop bar, but living in a pink world. It is time to visit ocean blue and forest green, but when :)
 
Gurkan said:
But; Raffy is drinking less water than he used to drink, and much more calm at +3 after the shots.
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Remember our kitties are more than just numbers, this sort of stuff is also a positive indicator. We often talk about the WCR (whole cat report), considering the 5 p's
Preening
Playing
Peeing
Pooping
Purring

Gurkan said:
I keep the dose for one more cycle. This morning we ve started 11U.
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Good luck with the dosecrease.

I would keep reassessing the dose every 6 cycles, try to avoid holding on to dose that's not getting him into good numbers. As long as you keep up with the testing (don't forget those pm tests) you should be in a position to assess the dose and take him up safely and quickly.
 
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