Questions, my cat has been on ProZinc for 5-days

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Tadd68

Tadd68

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Cat was diagnosed on 3/27 and vet put him on 2-units of ProZinc every 12-hrs. When we first took him to the vet they said his BG was 461

I have been giving him his shots every morning/evening at 6am-6pm .. from the very start i taught myself to do testing as i bought a AlphaTrak2 meter at the vets office (YES i overpaid) and i have checked his BG every time before giving him his shot.

I have to get a reading under 400 AMPS or PMPS .. i work long hours so i was unable to get readings between 6am-6pm between shots all week.

This morning i gave him 2-Units at 6am and 3hrs later i just checked his BG and had hardly dropped any????

Any advice? Does it normally take a while before seeing results when a cat first starts taking insulin? I have been feeding him Fancy Feast Classic which is very low carb, once a day i give him 1/4 cup of Purina DM hard food
 
Hi & welcome! Since it’s the weekend & then I’m assuming you can get more tests in? The nadir is half way or around +5-+8 hours. I would get that number first. That is when the lowest number should be & each cat has a different nadir. If the nadir is over 200 then I would only raise in .25 increments. The numbers will always change. It is not a set amt. every day. But with more time in - you will learn how to treat each day. Until you learn it is best to see his patterns & go slow on any changes. Great job on getting set up for testing! Fantastic getting that; to best help your kitty!! You will learn so much on this forum & in no time be a pro! Sounds like you getting there quick... please read the sticky’s at the top & ask as many questions as you need! Everyone is here to help!
 
Welcome to the ProZinc forum! :)
Tadd68 said:
I have to get a reading under 400 AMPS or PMPS .. i work long hours so i was unable to get readings between 6am-6pm between shots all week.
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Many people are in this predicament so you can try as often as possible to get at least a before bed test every work day and do a few extras at strategic times (when you're most likely to capture the BG lowering effect of the insulin) on the weekend. Tests between +4 and +7 or +8 are good to try. Do a full curve on a weekend once in a while. We can guide you as to when that would be something to do.

Tadd68 said:
Any advice? Does it normally take a while before seeing results when a cat first starts taking insulin? I have been feeding him Fancy Feast Classic which is very low carb, once a day i give him 1/4 cup of Purina DM hard food
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It can take quite a while to see results and a while for Carlos' body to get used to insulin. Keep up the testing routine I described on the newbies handout and log your data. Post here regularly for advice. The DM dry is high in carbs (about 14% I think) so the less you feed of it the better. I understand not wanting to waste it after spending all the money. Would your vet accept a return if you say Carlos refuses to eat it?

It's important to keep testing if/when you remove all dry from his diet because it can have a significant impact on BG. We can guide you.
 
Welcome to Prozinc-land, Tadd and Carlos! Oh that dang vet food! I was a victim of that ploy as well, and it killed me to waste all that money. I did finally donate it to the local shelter for their kitties figuring I would save on insulin what I spent on the food since lower carbs usually brings the dose down too.

I like Kris' suggestion of telling the vet he won't eat it and seeing if you can get a refund. Lots of vets will do that, so it doesn't hurt to ask.

Several folks around here switch to a human meter and then use the AT2 to do spot checks or occasional curves to report to their vet. That way you and your vet can be speaking the same language, but in between times you can save a lot of money since AT2 strips are like $1 each while human meters are closer to 20 cents (depending on the meter).

I work full time too, although thankfully I have a very short commute. This can be managed even with a full time job, though it takes some extra intentionality on the weekends. Please don't hesitate to ask whatever questions you have. We are all happy to help!
 
You're all AWESOME! thanks for the replies .. i may just tell my vet the truth and say "i have switched him over to Fancy Feast pate wet food, i found out the Purina Pro Plan DM has 14% and the FF is only about 4% carbohydrates" i questioned it at the office and all i was told was it "had some" carbs as it was necessary to make a kibble food .. they didn't tell me it had 14% carbs. Plus it was $39.99 for a 6-lb bag
 
Hi. My cat has been on ProZinc 269 days. :) I normally do not bother testing until +4 because that is normally the point where I begin to see some real action. I agree that a weekend curve would be helpful for you, especially since you are unable to get regular mid-cycle tests. A curve means testing at pre-shot then every two hours until the next pre-shot test. It is a good way to get an idea of when the numbers drop, get to their lowest, then start to rise... not that the points when those things happen will always stay the same, but it gives you a good idea of how the cycles are currently looking. I find +4, +6 and +8 to be the most important testing times.. so even if you can do just those rather than a full curve, it would help.

The carbs in the dry food can definitely make a difference. Sometimes, less insulin is needed once the dry food is taken out of the equation. I kept the bag of Hill's m/d that the first vet sent us home with, and I have used some of it on occasions when Mia's numbers started going too low. That tells you something - if I can use it to steer her glucose up to avoid a hypo, I sure do not want to feed it to her on a regular basis!
 
Oh, one more thing I meant to say... your pre-shot tests reflect the glucose level when the insulin has pretty much worn off, so those are going to be higher. It is really the mid-cycle tests that show you what the insulin is doing. Mia's pre-shot numbers are still in the 300s most of the time. We do not really see 400s anymore, but I would be happier if we only saw 200s or less. This diabetes thing just will not cooperate. :)
 
Baby still has 400’s presshot..:( I think it always wears off at hour 11. It’s probaby about time to raise the dose just a tiny. I’m a scaredy cat. When I do that I like to be around to watch & test for the next couple cycles. @FurBabiesMama - Mia is a beauty! Js
 
The reason a full curve is recommended, is that not all cats nadir in the +4 to +7 range. While that is typical for most cats, there are exceptions and doing the full curve (every two hours) is how you start to uncover that. During my cats first diagnosis, his nadir was between +2 and +3. Now it varies from +3 to +6 depending on the day. There are cats on here who nadir around +9.

It's not necessary to do a full curve every single weekend, but if you aren't able to test during the week for work, it's important to do them a few times to at least figure out what is typical for your cat and then you can do what FurBabiesMama does and concentrate tests during the times that are most important for Carlos.
 
Ok so PLEASE give me your feedback here, this morning i woke up at 1:45 and Carlos was laying next to bed on the floor and was breathing heavily (closed mouth) i could see his respirations were faster than normal. He had his 2-units of ProZinc at 6pm Saturday evening so i am thinking to myself "it's been 7-hrs 45-min since his shot and i bet his BG went low" so i try (alone) to get him to let me check his BG level and NOOO he was having no part of that.
I didn't know what to do so i gave him a 1/4 cup of DM since i know it has carbs in it. I kept petting him and finally got him calmed enough i could lay back down.

At 5:30am with my wife's help (she worked today at 6am so i didn't want to wake her up at 2am) anyways, she helped me and i was able to get a blood droplet from his paw without any fuss from him.

His BG reading was the lowest it has ever been, 284 AMPS ...

So now me and the wife are talking and i told her how he was acting at 1:45am , fast respirations acting kind of not himself and we both are guessing his sugar was low. My wife said "you really should have woke me at 2am to help you get a reading"

Now the dilemma, do we continue giving him 2-units every 12hrs?? His numbers have went down last few times AMPS and PMPS and we're afraid he will go too low while we are asleep or during day when we are both at work.
(Vet said last Tuesday when we picked Carlos up "give 2-units twice daily till you come back for check up and BG curve on April 6th" ... of course he also told us to feed him that Purina Pro Plan DM with all the carbs .. we have been feeding the FF patē wet food and he loves it, plus it has very few carbs .... i have to give him his insulin shot here in 15-30 min and kind of thinking on seeing how 1.5 units or even 1-unit would do. I can meter him a few times today
 
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Tadd68 said:
Ok so PLEASE give me your feedback here, this morning i woke up at 1:45 and Carlos was laying next to bed on the floor and was breathing heavily (closed mouth) i could see his respirations were faster than normal. He had his 2-units of ProZinc at 6pm Saturday evening so i am thinking to myself "it's been 7-hrs 45-min since his shot and i bet his BG went low" so i try (alone) to get him to let me check his BG level and NOOO he was having no part of that.
I didn't know what to do so i gave him a 1/4 cup of DM since i know it has carbs in it. I kept petting him and finally got him calmed enough i could lay back down.

At 5:30am with my wife's help (she worked today at 6am so i didn't want to wake her up at 2am) anyways, she helped me and i was able to get a blood droplet from his paw without any fuss from him.

His BG reading was the lowest it has ever been, 284 AMPS ...

So now me and the wife are talking and i told her how he was acting at 1:45am , fast respirations acting kind of not himself and we both are guessing his sugar was low. My wife said "you really should have woke me at 2am to help you get a reading"

Now the dilemma, do we continue giving him 2-units every 12hrs?? His numbers have went down last few times AMPS and PMPS and we're afraid he will go too low while we are asleep or during day when we are both at work.
(Vet said last Tuesday when we picked Carlos up "give 2-units twice daily till you come back for check up and BG curve on April 6th" ... of course he also told us to feed him that Purina Pro Plan DM with all the carbs .. we have been feeding the FF patē wet food and he loves it, plus it has very few carbs .... i have to give him his insulin shot here in 15-30 min and kind of thinking on seeing how 1.5 units or even 1-unit would do. I can meter him a few times today
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Just seeing this now. Those could be hypo signs. Hard to know for sure. The usual starting dose is 1 u twice a day. You could drop him down to that for now as a precaution and work on desensitizing him to testing. More later - I have to look after my crew right now.
 
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The lower numbers could well be due to the diet change. Scary to go through but good for Carlos. Now to work on the testing thing because it's extremely important.
 
Tadd68 said:
You're all AWESOME! thanks for the replies .. i may just tell my vet the truth and say "i have switched him over to Fancy Feast pate wet food, i found out the Purina Pro Plan DM has 14% and the FF is only about 4% carbohydrates" i questioned it at the office and all i was told was it "had some" carbs as it was necessary to make a kibble food .. they didn't tell me it had 14% carbs. Plus it was $39.99 for a 6-lb bag
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If you say your cat doesn’t like it you can return it for a refund.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Any new test numbers for Carlos?
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Won't be able to check him till about 3:30 today. I hope Carlos is doing ok .. i worry about my buddy but unfortunately i can't be at home all the time.
I ended up just giving him 1-unit this morning about 5:30am .. he loves the new Fancy Feast wet patē food, i know it may be a long shot but it would be so nice if down the road his BG would be good enough from the diet alone that he would not need insulin.

I'll update here about 3:30 and update my SS with numbers
 
Just got home about 3:20, checked Carlos BG at 3:30 (+10hrs shot) and it was 380
.. maybe i should of gave him the 2-units of insulin this morning as i had been doing
 
Maybe 2 units would have been better...but now you know! All data is good data and what this told you is that 1 isn't enough for those yellow preshots. Since you couldn't be home to monitor, it's not a bad thing to go with a lower dose. You gotta learn what's safe for Carlos and you have to do what's right for both of you. :)
 
I don't know... If you suspect he went too low on two that could have been risky. If 1 winds up not being enough you can always raise it in 0.25 increments
 
Try hard to get a before bed test tonight. You need some data from +4 to +7 as often as possible to evaluate a dose because you need to see how low he goes. It's hard when you're at work so we suggest the evening test and then get extras on days off.

I wouldn't say with certainty that the 1 u was too low. The pink could be a bounce that started after a low last night. Try 1 u again tonight. If necessary go up to 1.25 u tomorrow AM. You'll have to eyeball this on your syringe - easier if it has half unit marks.
 
Thought Carlos was headed in the right direction, now i'm not sure what is happening as you can see by my SS below. Last 2 checks PMPS and this morning AMPS were both in the red. He is eating 80-90% FF pate wet food .. me and my wife both leave for work at 5:30am, she gets home around 4pm and i don't get home till 6:15pm .. i guess i will have to make myself get up about midnight or 1am and do a test tonight to see where his BG is at about +6 or +7 hrs after shot
 
If you guys can shoot at 5 and 5, a quick test at 10pm (+5) just before bed should give you valuable information. Any time either of you are off get extra mid cycle tests in. These numbers are not at all unusual for a newly diagnosed cat. It's a marathon. I didn't even see a number under 300 (not even mid cycle) until 3 months into insulin.
 
Yes, even a +3 or +4 can give valuable information (or a +8 or +9 if it's easier to get up early).

Is the other 10-20% of his food high carb? In some cats, even a little can make a big difference in their BG. It's okay to leave out wet food for grazing while you're at work. One trick is to add a couple extra tablespoons of water to the food, and then freeze it. While you're gone, it thaws and the kitty has fresh food to eat later into the day. I'm in a chillier climate, so I just add the water and leave it out most of the year - I just do the freezer trick in the summer when it warms up.
 
Hmmmm....so basically the same number. Could be due to several reasons really. As you get more data, the picture will become clearer. Getting that +8 was good though! All data is good data! :)
 
It looks like increased by a full unit last night. We recommend doing increases by 0.25u at a time, 0.5u at a time if the nadir is over 200. But right now you don't have mid-cycle data to show how low Carlos is going at nadir, so increasing without those mid-cycle numbers can be dangerous - either leading to hypo or unnecessary bouncing (which gives you really high PS numbers). So I would suggest not doing anymore increases before the weekend when you can see what's really happening and make sure you're keeping your kitty safe.

If that doesn't make sense, please ask any questions you have about it. :)
 
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