Questions about switching from Vetsulin to ProZinc or Lantus?

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KarrieK

KarrieK

Member Since 2019
Hello, after being concerned, disappointed and frustrated with Simon's very high BG numbers for the past 3 weeks (since diagnosis) we are preparing to switch him from Vetsulin to something else. It looks like these other 2 are considerably more expensive so we want to make sure we understand why we would go with one versus the other.

In looking at Chewy, it appears a vial of Lantus is around $300. Of course how long that size vial will last depends on the dosage, but, I am shocked it is so expensive.....how many of you use this one and how long does a vial last? Prozinc appears to be less expensive, but if Lantus is the better choice for my boy we will go with that one. Has anyone out there used both, and why did you change?

Thank you for any and all feedback on this issue, it is much appreciated!
 
Prozinc and Lantus are both good insulins for cats. Prozinc is a cat specific insulin and chewy will likely be the best price. It works similarly to Vetsulin, but it is much gentler and lasts longer, usually 10 to 12 hours. It is probably a better choice if you can’t stick to a fairly strict 12 hour shooting schedule which is how lantus works best.

Lantus is also a very good insulin but it works differently, in that the insulin sort of stores up and releases slowly over time. It works best if you can stick to a fairly strict 12 hour shooting schedule. Because it is a human insulin, it is VERY expensive to buy it in the US and a lot of people order from a pharmacy in Canada. It’s actually cheaper if you order the pens instead of a vial, because you can use the entire pen, whereas the vial will likely lose potency before you use it all
 
I have not used Prozinc but used Lantus. I found it a very good insulin for Sheba.
A lot of peeps from the US get their insulin from Marks Marine pharmacy in Canada who will ship the insulin once you fax or post them a script. You only have to send the one script and they will keep sending the insulin on request.
@Chris & China (GA) will be able to send you the link about Marks.
 
Just thought of another question; are both Lantus and Prozinc fairly simple to administer once you get used to giving your kitty injections? I seem to recall someone saying that with one of them you have to leave the needle in for 10 seconds after plunging the medication in. That part concerned me.
 
KarrieK said:
Just thought of another question; are both Lantus and Prozinc fairly simple to administer once you get used to giving your kitty injections? I seem to recall someone saying that with one of them you have to leave the needle in for 10 seconds after plunging the medication in. That part concerned me.
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You don't have to leave the need in for 10 seconds..but if you keep pressure on the plunger until it is out, that will make use all the insulin has got in. If you don't a drop is still left in the needle. :)
 
KarrieK said:
I seem to recall someone saying that with one of them you have to leave the needle in for 10 seconds after plunging the medication in. That part concerned me.
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That's only when you use the special pen needles that work with the Lantus Solostar pen but we don't use those special needles. We use regular insulin syringes and just pull the insulin out of the pen (like it was a mini-vial)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I have not used Prozinc but used Lantus. I found it a very good insulin for Sheba.
A lot of peeps from the US get their insulin from Marks Marine pharmacy in Canada who will ship the insulin once you fax or post them a script. You only have to send the one script and they will keep sending the insulin on request.
@Chris & China (GA) will be able to send you the link about Marks.
Click to expand...
Thank you - is that where you get it from?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
That's only when you use the special pen needles that work with the Lantus Solostar pen but we don't use those special needles. We use regular insulin syringes and just pull the insulin out of the pen (like it was a mini-vial)
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That sounds like a good way to go. I am wondering about dosage and how much to order, etc. Our vet is not familiar with this, which is unsettling....
 
KarrieK said:
Hello, after being concerned, disappointed and frustrated with Simon's very high BG numbers for the past 3 weeks (since diagnosis) we are preparing to switch him from Vetsulin to something else. It looks like these other 2 are considerably more expensive so we want to make sure we understand why we would go with one versus the other.

In looking at Chewy, it appears a vial of Lantus is around $300. Of course how long that size vial will last depends on the dosage, but, I am shocked it is so expensive.....how many of you use this one and how long does a vial last? Prozinc appears to be less expensive, but if Lantus is the better choice for my boy we will go with that one. Has anyone out there used both, and why did you change?

Thank you for any and all feedback on this issue, it is much appreciated!
Click to expand...
 
you can get Lantus for 215.00 - google good rx for a list of pharmacies for that price.
a 10ml vial has 1000 units, it will last several months. ignore the discard in 30 days, it good until the expiration on the vial if
kept refrigerated, out of the refrigerator it is good for 28 days
 
You can also check this out Single Care Discount Card get a script from your vet print the coupon and the single care card, these prices are for N.J. you have to put your zip code in to see your prices
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Many thanks to you all for the information! I ordered Simon some Lantus today from Marks in Canada. Both of the guys I spoke with were so pleasant and helpful - not to mention patient with my many questions ;)

I am very anxious to get this product and give it to my boy. His numbers remain pretty high and I am very concerned about the effect that is having on his body. Thank you again.
 
KarrieK said:
Many thanks to you all for the information! I ordered Simon some Lantus today from Marks in Canada. Both of the guys I spoke with were so pleasant and helpful - not to mention patient with my many questions ;)

I am very anxious to get this product and give it to my boy. His numbers remain pretty high and I am very concerned about the effect that is having on his body. Thank you again.
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Did you order the U-100 syringes with half unit markings
 
KarrieK said:
Not yet - looking for a source. Someone mentioned ADW and that looks like the best bet so far. Would like to find a place with free shipping, but want a decent product (needless to say).
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I always order from them here are promo codes they always have
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These are the ones I got I like a longer needle, the reviews look very good even though it doesn't say half unit on the box it says it in the description and they are half markings. I was shocked to see how small the lines are on the U-100 if you don't have excellent vision you will need a magnifying glass like I do and I see others use one I'll post a pic for you
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here is the pici
img_20191220_202615-jpg.50023
the tiny lines on the left are the half unit markings, no wonder why you need a magnifying glass[/QUOTE

Yes, those lines are pretty small! I definitely will need a magnifying glass - but I keep one in my kitchen anyway as at my age, I have a hard time reading labels and stuff. It makes me a little nervous that administering this is so "precise". I do my very best, but I am always worried that I inject him in the right place and the insulin is getting where it needs to go.
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Kerrie --

Did you have other questions about starting Lantus? How can we help?
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Thank you for asking; my initial concern is about converting him from Vetsulin to Lantus. Is there anything "special" I need to do? Also, upon discharge from the hospital we were to give him 2 units of Vetsulin every 12 hours. Our regular vet is prescribing Lantus at 1 unit every 12 hours. That has me concerned. Simon's numbers are still so high and I worry about reducing the dosage.
 
Wow, such tiny markings! Thankfully I keep a magnifying glass in my kitchen (and use is often) but now I'm administering medication - not reading instructions or labels - so no doubt I am going to super cautious about getting it exact.
 
Thank you so much everyone! One more little question (for now!); our vet prescribed 29g needles (which is what I'm using with the Vetsulin) but I see others use 31. Is there a reason I should use 31g with Lantus, or is the difference so small it doesn't really matter?
 
I ended up getting a magnifying visor with light. It allows my hands to be free for dosing. I also use a light box (from the Dollar Store) to illuminate the syringe and calipers to measure exactly (plus I'm kinda in lala land early in the morning when I'm dosing Freckles AM shot, so the calipers reconfirm the doseage).
 
KarrieK said:
Is there a reason I should use 31g with Lantus, or is the difference so small it doesn't really matter?
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The reason most of us use the 31 gauge is just for our cat's comfort. They are so tiny that they don't even feel it. 29 gauge aren't that much "thicker", so there's no reason you can't use them if you want.
 
Generally, with making a switch from a shorter acting insulin to a depot type of insulin, the dose is the same. in some cases, a cat may have a marked response to Lantus for a cycle or two. It's your call if you want to reduce the dose but if so, I'd suggest you drop from 2.0u to 1.75u. You might want to talk to your vet about why the suggestion to cut the dose in. half. If your kitty was hospitalized due to DKA, I'd be very apprehensive about reducing the dose.

Just so you're aware, it will take 5 - 7 days for the Lantus depot to form. It's not likely that you'll see much movement until the depot is established.

A 29 gauge needle is big. Most of us use a 30 or 31 gauge since it's less painful given that it's very thin. (Lower numbers are thicker.) There's nothing inherently different other than how thick the needle is and the comfort level for your cat.

Also, you will need U100 syringes. Vetsulin uses U40 syringes.

Do you have spreadsheet set up already? If not, I'd get one set up as soon as you can especially if you have any data you can enter . It would be helpful to see what kind of response you saw to the Vetsulin.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Generally, with making a switch from a shorter acting insulin to a depot type of insulin, the dose is the same. in some cases, a cat may have a marked response to Lantus for a cycle or two. It's your call if you want to reduce the dose but if so, I'd suggest you drop from 2.0u to 1.75u. You might want to talk to your vet about why the suggestion to cut the dose in. half. If your kitty was hospitalized due to DKA, I'd be very apprehensive about reducing the dose.

Just so you're aware, it will take 5 - 7 days for the Lantus depot to form. It's not likely that you'll see much movement until the depot is established.

A 29 gauge needle is big. Most of us use a 30 or 31 gauge since it's less painful given that it's very thin. (Lower numbers are thicker.) There's nothing inherently different other than how thick the needle is and the comfort level for your cat.

Also, you will need U100 syringes. Vetsulin uses U40 syringes.

Do you have spreadsheet set up already? If not, I'd get one set up as soon as you can especially if you have any data you can enter . It would be helpful to see what kind of response you saw to the Vetsulin.
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Thank you, I plan to ask her why she is recommending going from 2 to 1 unit. It doesn't sound like she has much experience with diabetic kitties in her practice and is relying on information from veterinary journals, etc versus what she has seen in her clinical experience. That does make me a little uneasy. She is open to information I bring her from this group, and in general we have been satisfied so changing vets isn't an option right now.

I haven't been able to set up a spreadsheet as I've been working too many hours to do BG tests during the day. For the past 3 weeks I've been I checking Simon first thing in the morning and then when I get home from work. His BG has been very high at those times (which is shortly before he's due for his insulin). Since I am off this weekend I plan to check him at shorter, more regular intervals in hopes we can get a better picture. I have been checking his urine with the strips as he has been drinking a lot of water and peeing massive amounts lately.

Again, thank you for all of your help. I am so worried about my both of my kitties right now (his sister is in pretty rough shape, too) and am having a hard time focusing.
 
I use reading glasses and a bright light (mine's over the stove, which is right next to the refrigerator). I also clean off the top of the insulin vial first, with an alcohol swab.
 
Just keep in mind that one major way that Lantus differs from Vetsulin is that Lantus dosing is based on the nadir -- the lowest point in the cycle -- not on the pre-shot numbers. Many people here work so aren't home to catch the mid-cycle lows. It's helpful to try to set your shot time so you can get some tests early in the cycle so. you know if numbers are dropping. For example, I shot at 5:00. My kitty had an early nadir (at around +3 vs at around +6 which is more typical) so I could get a +2 test before I left the house and knew whether I needed to steer her numbers with high carb food. It also means you need to get tests during the PM cycle, weekends, holidays, etc. in order to have a handle on how your cat is responding to Lantus.

Even with Vetsulin, you'll want to have some idea of how low the insulin is dropping the numbers. The highs you're seeing at shot times could be due to lows earlier in the cycle and the numbers bouncing back up into highs by shot time. My Gabby could start a cycle in the 400s, drop into the 40s, and be back in the 400s by shot time. If I hadn't caught the numbers in the 40s, I would have increased her dose vs. decreasing.
 
Yes. The 3/10 cc is the capacity of the syringe and that syringe can hold up to 30 Units. So a 1/2 cc syringe could hold up to 50 Units (half of a cubic centimeter, thus 1/2 cc).

Markings on the 3/10 cc syringe are a bit furthur apart then on a 1/2 cc or a 1 cc syringe. Trust me, they are still close together but easier to use. The shelter gave me only 1 cc syringes to use when I first took Wink in to foster and switching to the 3/10 cc capacity syringes made a difference.
 
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