Questions about food and insulin and...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oonagh's Mom

Oonagh's Mom

Member Since 2014
Right now, my Oonagh seems happy and content, but I have not started her on insulin either. I am stymied because of the cost. Vet only offers two kinds: Vetsulin and something that is "much more expensive". Has anyone here used wal-mart's brand "Relion" for their cats? I have everyone telling me to check with another vet. But my last vet visit was over $200 and although I am not destitute, I cannot keep ringing up those kinds of bills. I am concerned that another vet would want to do more blood work and charge maybe more than my vet. And I like our vet. He is kind, although I think his vet techs might need to learn a little bit more about how to help clients figure out a way to handle the costs instead of telling them "Well, such and such will be only a little more expensive" (meaning that the cost of treatment and all will still be expensive).

I just switched both cats to canned food, and they love it. However, Oonagh scarfs her and is hungry enough 3 hours later that she will wake me up to feed her. This has been going on since early Weds morning. Last night before bed, I gave both cats a tiny bit more of the wet food and that seemed to help until their usual feeding time. I usually feed about 6:15 a.m. then when I get home from work which is right before 5. Does it hurt to give her a spoonful more of canned food? She was 9 lbs, went down to 7 before the vet saw her. I can tell she weighs a little more now that I have put her on canned food only, but I can still feel her bones a bit.

Also, when I do take her back to the vet, should I ask about having her fast before the glucose test? Last time, they didn't mention I have her fast before a blood draw, and I had just fed her the usual half-cup of dry food before I took her in. I have wondered if that is why her numbers were as high as they were.

Anyone else been through these same feeding issues? I don't want to over feed her--especially as I am giving other cat (Mabb) the same amounts of food. (She too will act starved at feeding times but she is not so prone to wake me up for a second, 2 a.m. feeding.)

Thanks everyone.
Marta
 
Well, you didn't say how much you are feeding, so it's hard to say if more is too much, but unregulated diabetics need more food than normal, because their body cannot process the food properly without insulin, sometimes twice as much, or more. Once you do get him on insulin you'll find his appetite will return to 'normal' because he will be able to 'use' all of the food he eats.

Regarding insulin cost, I'm guessing your vet was referring to prozinc..... Yes, it IS more expensive, but not all that expensive imo, (I paid $127 at my vet last time I went) BUT that bottle lasts six months (or longer) if properly cared for (refrigerated, gently handled, protected from light)

Lantus and Levemir are both human insulins that also work for cats, although I do not know the 'rules' as far as vet's prescribing it. These also last roughly six months.

If you do decide to go to another vet, you shouldn't need to get more blood work done, just ask your current vet for copies of what they did at your last visit.

You do not, however NEED a vet for glucose testing, home testing is ultimately more accurate and far more budget friendly, although there is of course a learning curve to go with it (for you AND the cat), plus the numbers you get at home will not be inflated by 'stress', which is very common. Many of us here on this forum do use the relion meters, ketone sticks, syringes, they're very cost effective compared to the alternatives.

Folks here will be more than happy to help you learn to test if you give them a chance :)
 
hey marta!
i dont know a lot at all, and am new here. my boy is on humlin N (same as relion), at least for now. he is nearly out, and not sure if he will stay on it or not. feel free to click below and look at his SS. my biggest complaint is it does seem to wear off after 8 or 9 hrs. other than that, he is doing ok i think. others have said their cats did horribly, so maybe i am just lucky (it is what it is). i have several lengthy posts and have had lots of issues. haha and wah...
feel free to read thru my posts. ur bound to learn something from my millions of mistakes :)
pm me anytime, altho i am not experienced enuf to give any advice yet :)
 
Insulin doses are often in the 1 to 2 unit range, twice daily.
You need to compare the cost on a per unit basis.

A vial of ProZinc is 10 mL with 40 units per mL for a total of 400 units.
A vial of Lantus is 10 mL with 100 units per mL, for a total of 1,000 units
A pen of Lantus is 3 mL with 100 units per mL, for a total of 300 units.

The last vial of ProZinc I purchased from the vet was $140, or $0.35 per unit. Online prices may be as low as $90 per vial, or $0.23 per unit.
Prices reported for Lantus vary around $200 per vial, or $0.20 per unit.
Prices for 1 pen (you may have to hunt for a place that will sell 1 at a time) can be as low as $25 using a savings card which would be about $0.08 per unit.

Tips on getting Lantus less expensively
 
Also, when I do take her back to the vet, should I ask about having her fast before the glucose test? Last time, they didn't mention I have her fast before a blood draw, and I had just fed her the usual half-cup of dry food before I took her in. I have wondered if that is why her numbers were as high as they were.
Click to expand...
Some vets like you to fast your kitty first, some don't. I'd call your vet and ask.

It usually takes about 30 minutes for the food to start to be digested and to start raising the BG levels. After about 3-4 hours, the food influence should be over and if you test then, you would see if the BG (blood glucose) level is lower after food. This does mean, you would need to get 2 tests, 1 before you feed and a 2nd test 3-4 hours later.

How is Oonagh feeling with the 5 P's (peeing, pooping, purring, playing, preening) and appetite, or what we call the WCR (whole cat report)? Are the pee patches smaller? Is she pooping regularly, and normal poop? Is she purring? Is she playing again? Does she preen or bath herself?

Does it hurt to give her a spoonful more of canned food? She was 9 lbs, went down to 7 before the vet saw her. I can tell she weighs a little more now that I have put her on canned food only, but I can still feel her bones a bit.
Click to expand...
It doesn't hurt at all to give her a bit more food if she is begging and waking you up because she is so hungry.

If she is still really hungry and it does sound that way, it sounds to me like she may need a little bit of insulin for a while, to help her process her food and get her feeling like her old self again. You can feed more, and more often then twice a day. I split my cats meals into 4 portions and they get 2 breakfasts, a couple of hours apart and then 2 dinners, a couple of hours apart.

Have your tried cat food 'cicles? Freeze some wet cat food, a non-stick muffin tin works great, then pop out once frozen and store in a Ziploc bag. Pull out a 'Hockey puck', leave out to defrost slowly so your kitties have something to nibble on. This might help you overnight.
 
whats a hockey puck? a slice?
Click to expand...
I called it a "hockey puck" because it's shaped that way once you pop it out of the non-stick muffin
cup. Plus, it's frozen and you play hockey on ice, so "hockey puck". We also call them "cat food 'cicles" sort of the cat food equivalent of a frozen popsicle.

and how do u highlight just a portion of text like that?
Click to expand...
To highlight a portion of text, and quote it in your post, you first click on the "Quote" edit command above this free form text box where you are typing. It's the 4th one in from the left.
You now have this in your free form text box. [ quote][/quote]

Then, you go to the portion of text you want to copy, drag your cursor across it to select that text, hit the CTRL and C keys at the same time.

Scroll back to your free form text box.
Place your cursor in the middle, between the ] bracket and the [ [ quote] here in the middle[/quote] and hit the CTRL and V keys at the same time to paste the text in there.
You now have quoted a section of someones post.
 
oh wow. my head hurts so bad ill hv to look at that tmrw. i nvr use ctrl keys so i know nothing abt that. maybe i will learn.
i know how to copy/paste :)
or whn i hit quote and it quotes the whole post.
anyway..
head busting :(
 
That's what you are doing with the Ctrl C (copy) and Ctrl V (paste). However you do it now will work too.
 
Deb & Wink said:
That's what you are doing with the Ctrl C (copy) and Ctrl V (paste). However you do it now will work too.
Click to expand...
thanks....when i hit quote, it quotes it all, like this.
oh well. thanks deb :)
 
Are you perhaps clicking on the "Quote button to the right of the posting title? If so, that's not the one Deb was referring to. What she was suggestion is clicking the normal "Post Reply" button at the bottom, then in the row of buttons above the big text entry box, click on Quote. You will then see:
Code: 
[quote][/quote]
You can scroll down and find the text you want to quote, highlight it and right mouse click Copy, move the cursor to between the quote tags and right mouse button Paste.

Alternatively, if you do use the "Quote button next to the posting, it will quote all the the text as you noticed. Then just highlight the parts you don't want (click and hold left mouse button and drag) then press the Backspace key to delete them.
 
Thank you everyone, for your replies. My vet suggested Vetsulin. He said the other was much more expensive (I am guessing one of the ones I saw mentioned above.) The Vetsulin runs at $70 a vial (I guess it's a vial.) I have no idea how long that would last, but I just don't have a huge income (like I'm sure many of us here don't.) I looked into order it online,thinking it would be cheaper, but shipping and handling costs ran the price up almost as high as the asking cost from my vet.

I keep reading so many pros and cons for each kind of insulin mentioned. And then my friends at work keep telling me to change vets, which is also hard to consider. (Strong loyalty is one of my personality traits--but not always a good one.)

I do like the idea of the Popsicles. My other cat (not diabetic) has been as crazy about the new soft food as Oonagh so both are happy with it, but poor "Oonsie" is acting starved. I was hoping for a miracle and not have to resort to the insulin, but I am guessing I had better look into it. She is still playful, still purring, (especially when trying to get me up to feed her! Like having a newborn in the house needing a 2 a.m. feeding but friendlier). I think the output of urine is a little less--I seem to be able to get enough dry particles now of litter when I scoop that I can sift some of it through the scoop). Pooping is happening about the same amount as before this all started. In short, had I not known she had diabetes, I would probably think she was just an aging cat who likes to eat a lot.

I am really glad I was directed to this site. I still feel overwhelmed to a degree, but am feeling somewhat better.

Does anyone know if the cost of testing supplies for glucose have gone up? My mom has diabetes and it seems that's always a big concern for humans with diabetes.

I kind of like to have all my ducks in a row before I tackle any project.
 
Vetsulin is a U40 insulin, that means it has 40 units of insulin per ml. vetsulin comes in 5 ml and I think 10 ml vials. Thus each 5 ml vial hs 200 units of insul and the 10 ml vial has 40 units. Human insulin like Levimir, Lantus and N (NPH) is a U100 so it has 100 units per ml. Thus a 10 ml vial of human insulin has 100 units.
 
Vetsulin doesn't have a great success rate in cats, only 20-30% per this slideshow from the University of Queensland back from 2009. http://www.uq.edu.au/vetschool/content/clinic-stlucia/feline-dm.pdf. Vetsulin has been back on the market for about a year now, after some manufacturing quality control issues. Nothing has changed in the formulation. The duration of the Vetsulin is only about 8-10 hours for most cats.

BJM give you a link to getting lantus less expensively. You might want to go back in the posts and look at that link. Use the lantus savings program, get your vet to write a prescription for the pen, find a pharmacy to sell you a single pen, and the Lantus solostar pen will cost you $25 for the first 6 refills. Each pen contains 300 units. At 2 units a day (1U am, 1U pm), that lantus pen will last you 150 days (17 cents per day). At 4 units a day (2U am, 2U pm), that lantus pen will last you 75 days. (33 cents per day)

Vetsulin 10 mL vial contains 400 units. At 3 units per day ( (1U every 8 hours), that Vetsulin vial will last you 133 days (52 cents per day). At 6 units a day (2U every 8 hours), that Vetsulin vial will last you 66 days (94 cents per day).

Relion U-100 insulin syringes at Walmart $13/100 or 26 cents a day
U-40 insulin syringes $13.95/100 but you need to use 1/3 more per day. so 42 cents per day for 3 syringes.

Here is a user guide from the Vetsulin/Caninsulin/Humulin N user forum here. vetsulin/caninsulin user guide for you to read if you do decide to go with the Vetsulin.
 
Last week I spent $1700 on Theo's hospitalization, insulin, and tests. I'm a college student - this is way more money than I had to spend. After educating myself, I could repeat a diabetic ketoacidosis event much, much cheaper... but what would really have been cheaper was getting his diabetes diagnosed sooner and treating it before it went so badly out of control. Now obviously your cat is not my cat but if I could travel back in time and just pay for some blood work and insulin, I would do it in a heartbeat. I've always said there's a limit to how much I would spend on a cat, any cat, but I lied. I'd have paid twice as much to save Theo if he could be saved.

Anyway, there are ways to get insulin less expensively but if your cat needs insulin, he really needs insulin. :( It's better to get it for him than to wait.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top