QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 PMPS 'HI' +2 475

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Alexa and Reuben

Alexa and Reuben

Member Since 2012
Yesterday


Hi All, I have 3 questions:
In order to lower to help lower the BG I need to

a) follow dosage protocol
b) lower his stress level in every way possible


a) It looks like tomorrow morning it is time to increase the dose, as Reuben will have been on the 1st increase - (from 1u to 1.5u) - for three days by tomorrow morning. If I understand the protocol correctly (pasted in below), tomorrow morning we should increase the dose by .25u Can someone confirm this for me please? Thanks!

b) I think he has stress from pancreatitis pain, and that buprenorphine is the correct med for this. Can anyone who has used it weigh in on the pros and cons their experience, and the dose?

And, he has a few fleas which are driving him crazy - a new thing here in the very humid and wild-kingdom place we live now. I have no experience with this, as he has only gotten them maybe twice in his life, and he was young and I just put frontline on him. But I don`t know what to do now, as I can`t imagine using hard drugs (frontline etc) on him at this point. How are you all handling this on your not-so-young FD kitties?

Thank you for your help and suggestions!!

here is the dosage protocol from tilly`s page:
----------------------------------------------------
Phase 2: Increasing the dose

Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.25 IU if the cat is getting a low dose and/or relatively low BGs, 0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU. Alternatively, if the cat is continuously producing moderately elevated BGs (nadir always >=200 mg/dl), increase the dose every 2-3 days by 0.25 IU ( if the cat is getting a low dose) or 0.5 IU (if the cat is getting a higher dose). From this point onward test for ketones once per week, or more often if the nadirs are still >=200 mg/dl.
---------------------------------------------------




Good Morning LL Friends :-)

Reuben's 476 amps was a nice surprise, since all we have seen is 'HI' for a day and a half! This is my introduction to 'bouncing'. nailbite_smile I am keeping the liquids and mini meals flowing, and his ketone reading just now was 0.2mmol/L - the same reading as Friday (and well within the 0.6mmol/L limit for trace ketones). He`s a strong boy!

Happy Monday
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476

Heading the right way! now head on down Reuben and quit hanging out with Rupert, he's a very bad influence!
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275

Thanks for the visit Melissa and Pip! :-D Well, he`s coming down now, a little fast though... have to see where this goes. This is a real roller coaster ride :shock: :shock: haha, I hope he evens out. Any advice is welcome, we are sooo new at this!
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275

You're doing great, Alexa. Just keep the small meals (lc) and water going and test to see where he goes. He's done with the bounce but you don't want him to go too low and bounce again yet. If he does, no big deal. It just is bringing him closer to the point where he stops doing it though.

I would test again about 3.5 & then about 4.5 & about 6 & 7 if you can. This way you can get a feel for where his nadir is. Most of the cats have either a 3.5-4.5 or a 5.5-7 nadir. If you can't test that much, the most important would be the 3.5 and the 6. :smile:

Later.
Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275

Hi guys .. you're doing great with reuben! I often forgot though, when we were dealing with bounces, that not only does going to low often create a bounce, but dropping low rather quickly can bring on the bounces as well .. if it wasn't one reason, it was another! :lol: But don't worry it does get better! Have a great day!
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275

MelanieAndRacci said:
You're doing great, Alexa. Just keep the small meals (lc) and water going and test to see where he goes. He's done with the bounce but you don't want him to go too low and bounce again yet. If he does, no big deal. It just is bringing him closer to the point where he stops doing it though.

I would test again about 3.5 & then about 4.5 & about 6 & 7 if you can. This way you can get a feel for where his nadir is. Most of the cats have either a 3.5-4.5 or a 5.5-7 nadir. If you can't test that much, the most important would be the 3.5 and the 6. :smile:

Later.
Melanie & Racci
Click to expand...


Thanks Melanie, I really appreciate the advice! I had to run out for food and missed the 3.5. darn. but got the 4. So I`ll do 5,6,7 testing now.
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275

PeterDevonMocha said:
Hi guys .. you're doing great with reuben! I often forgot though, when we were dealing with bounces, that not only does going to low often create a bounce, but dropping low rather quickly can bring on the bounces as well .. if it wasn't one reason, it was another! :lol: But don't worry it does get better! Have a great day!
Click to expand...

Much appreciated words of advice and encouragement, thank you! :-D He dropped quickly and seems to be rising quickly... Any tips from your experience with controlling the quick and low drops? You guys have a great day too!
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +4 269

Alexa, Glad to see Reuben greeting you with something nicer than HI!, good kitty! Hope he enjoys a pleasant cruise in the middle numbers, not scary high and not scary low.
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +4 269 +5 309

Well, from the looks of this so far - I'd imagine that letting him eat a lot on the way down, and then not so much on the way back up is the way to go. Opinions welcomed! :-D :-D
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +4 269

Leslie and Jasper said:
Alexa, Glad to see Reuben greeting you with something nicer than HI!, good kitty! Hope he enjoys a pleasant cruise in the middle numbers, not scary high and not scary low.
Click to expand...

Hi Leslie - Yeah, the vocabulary was getting repetitive for sure, hahah!! Well, I think he spent 3 hours or so in reasonable yellow, and now maybe he can enjoy an afternoon of lavender. Thanks for taking the ride with us!
 
Re: 8/20 Reuben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +4 269 +5 309 +6 427

I just edited my first post today to ask this question:

'Hi,

I need advice on increasing the dose please :smile:

Reuben will have been on the 1st increase - (from 1u to 1.5u) - for three days by tomorrow morning. If I understand the protocol correctly (pasted in below), tomorrow morning we should increase the dose by .25u Is this correct?

Thank you!

Alexa & Reuben
----------------------------------------------------
Phase 2: Increasing the dose

Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.25 IU if the cat is getting a low dose and/or relatively low BGs, 0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU. Alternatively, if the cat is continuously producing moderately elevated BGs (nadir always >=200 mg/dl), increase the dose every 2-3 days by 0.25 IU ( if the cat is getting a low dose) or 0.5 IU (if the cat is getting a higher dose). From this point onward test for ketones once per week, or more often if the nadirs are still >=200 mg/dl.'
---------------------------------------------------
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

hope you get an answer soon, I'm thinking you'll be told to increase!
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

Pip & Rupert said:
hope you get an answer soon, I'm thinking you'll be told to increase!
Click to expand...
Thanks Pip. What do you do about fleas up there? Or is the weather not good for them? This is the first placed we`ve lived where they are an issue, and I`m stumped (and kinda creeped out!)
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

I am no a dose advice giver. If Rueben is my cat, I'll take the increse dose in the next cycle. Hang in there!
Understand how awful that must feel seeing Reuben with those high bg. Other than those numbers, how is he? Appy, everything ok? Are you testing for ketone?

For fleas, I use very diluted tea tree oil (two, three drop in a basin of water). Wet a towel & wipe my cat with it. Do a couple of times & the flea is gone.
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

tortie58 said:
I am no a dose advice giver. If Rueben is my cat, I'll take the increse dose in the next cycle. Hang in there!
Understand how awful that must feel seeing Reuben with those high bg. Other than those numbers, how is he? Appy, everything ok? Are you testing for ketone?

For fleas, I use very diluted tea tree oil (two, three drop in a basin of water). Wet a towel & wipe my cat with it. Do a couple of times & the flea is gone.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your concern Tortie! His appetite is good, he is normal except for not having much energy; and like I said, I think he is in pain. His ketones are fine, thank goodness. And Gosh, thank you so much for the tip about tea tree oil! Fingers crossed that I can find it here in town asap! Hope all is well in your kitty-land today :-)
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

reuben'smom said:
tortie58 said:
I am no a dose advice giver. If Rueben is my cat, I'll take the increse dose in the next cycle. Hang in there!
Understand how awful that must feel seeing Reuben with those high bg. Other than those numbers, how is he? Appy, everything ok? Are you testing for ketone?

For fleas, I use very diluted tea tree oil (two, three drop in a basin of water). Wet a towel & wipe my cat with it. Do a couple of times & the flea is gone.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your concern Tortie! His appetite is good, he is normal except for not having much energy; and like I said, I think he is in pain. His ketones are fine, thank goodness. And Gosh, thank you so much for the tip about tea tree oil! Fingers crossed that I can find it here in town asap! Hope all is well in your kitty-land today :-)
Click to expand...

You mentioned pancreatitis; was he tested positive for pancreatitis, and if yes, what was his number and what did the vet say to do to treat it?
Normally, you would give something like pepcid AC (1/4 tab BID regular strength 10mg/daily max for a cat is 5mg) for the upset stomach, buprenex for the pain as it is painful, and also subQ fluids to give at home.
Pancreatitis would result in your cat having higher BG and not eating all that well.

You may need to increase the dose now, but once the pancreatitis heals, the dose will need to be decreased.

From the looks of the numbers on the ss, you should increase dose tonite by .5u, so you will go up to 2u BID.

How much bupe are you giving and how often?
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

I'm not dosing advise either.I was just happy to see you had numbers today instead of Hi.

maybe if you put dosing ? in the subject line it would get someone who knows what to do .
Or you could just directly try pm to one of the people like Sienne.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

First, if you have a question, don't edit your first post. Anyone who's visited your condo will skip past your initial post. Just add the questions in a new post which will also serve to bump your condo to the top of the board. You will want to edit your subject line in the first post, though, to reflect you have a question.

Reuben is bouncing again. He dropped 200 points by your +2.5 and his liver panicked!! You've been seeing nadirs that are under 300 on this dose. Based on the protocol, you would increase his dose by 0.25u. HOWEVER, since it is possible that the bounce may clear while you're increasing, you must either wait for the bounce to clear before increasing or if you opt to increase, you've got to get spot checks during both the AM and PM cycles. You cannot skip the PM tests if you are increasing. Personally, I would suggest increasing by 0.25u and getting the spot checks.

Pancreatitis is painful. This is the reason that your vet gave you bupe. What dose did the vet suggest? Keep in mind, you can always give less. Not all cats require fluids with pancreatitis. Fluids should only be given in they are needed and if you are absolutely certain Reuben has no heart problems. If Reuben is eating and isn't having problems with an upset stomach, Pepsid (famotidine) may not be necessary.

There is no way to predict whether you will need to decrease Reuben's dose once the pancreatitis is resolved. For many cats, the stress of an illness requires a larger dose of insulin since stress causes BG numbers to increase. Once the infection or inflammation is no longer a problem, less insulin may be necessary. However, there's no way to reliably know this.

DO NOT GIVE YOUR CAT TEA TREE OIL -- it's toxic to cats and dogs. Here's the link to the poison information. Combing a diluted solution of cider vinegar through Reuben's coat will help with a mild case of fleas. I would, however, make sure that you don't have fleas in the house.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Hi Alexa,

From his numbers today and the other day, it looks like his nadir is probably between 3 & 4.5. I would try narrowing it down. It's important info to know how low he goes when setting a dose for him. You still have very little data. He definitely needs an increase and it can't hurt to give him a .25u increase but it would be good for you to discuss it with one of the dosing pros like Marje or Sienne. They may tell you to go .5u or even to wait for a little more data. If you don't get an answer from one of them I would increase by .25u in the morning, not at night. It will help if you put dosing question in your subject line so Marje, or Jane or Dyana or Sienne see it.

This sticky on the TR Protocol may help you: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581#p13523 also.

You do want to feed more on the way down than the way up but be careful not to feed too much going down either or you will stop his trip down and also if you need to control his numbers by feeding a little here and there to keep him from going too low, he'll be full and you won't be able to. The best thing is small frequent meals all day.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

My vet wrote to give .10 of Buprenex to J.D., and I found that to be too much and it made him so he was all wobbily, and stoned (but maybe that's a good thing, I don't know), I ended up halving the dose and giving him 0.05 and he did much better (was able to walk). I also closed the door to the basement and brought the litter box upstairs so that he wouldn't fall trying to walk down the stairs into the basement, and I think while I was giving it I also shut the bedroom door, so he would jump up onto my high bed as it was the jumping down from it that concerned me most.

We use Frontline Plus (because of the ticks here), in the summer for 3 applications... around May 15th, July 1st, and August 15th as our summers are short, thankfully. Once the frost hits the fleas are gone.
 
Re: QUESTIONS! 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427 +

Blue said:
You mentioned pancreatitis; was he tested positive for pancreatitis, and if yes, what was his number and what did the vet say to do to treat it?

It was diagnosed by ultrasound; absolutely NO advice was given - I was simply told that it was a terrible illness and nothing could be done. I have been managing it with metoclopramide, giving water with a syringe when needed, and diet. (switched from Hill's to Lisa Pierson recipe)


Normally, you would give something like pepcid AC (1/4 tab BID regular strength 10mg/daily max for a cat is 5mg) for the upset stomach, buprenex for the pain as it is painful, and also subQ fluids to give at home.

Yes, I have been wondering about subQ's... I regularly syringe water every 20 minutes if he needs it. I need to get the buprenex and the pepcid.


Pancreatitis would result in your cat having higher BG and not eating all that well.

He eats very well!
Click to expand...
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Sienne and Gabby said:
Reuben is bouncing again. He dropped 200 points by your +2.5 and his liver panicked!! You've been seeing nadirs that are under 300 on this dose. Based on the protocol, you would increase his dose by 0.25u. HOWEVER, since it is possible that the bounce may clear while you're increasing, you must either wait for the bounce to clear before increasing or if you opt to increase, you've got to get spot checks during both the AM and PM cycles. You cannot skip the PM tests if you are increasing. Personally, I would suggest increasing by 0.25u and getting the spot checks.

Okay, I will increase .25 -- should I start tonight or tomorrow morning? And how many spot checks do I need to get in the PM.

Pancreatitis is painful. This is the reason that your vet gave you bupe. What dose did the vet suggest? Keep in mind, you can always give less. Not all cats require fluids with pancreatitis. Fluids should only be given in they are needed and if you are absolutely certain Reuben has no heart problems. If Reuben is eating and isn't having problems with an upset stomach, Pepsid (famotidine) may not be necessary.

The vet prescribed absolutely nothing for the pancreatitis. He said nothing could be done for it, that feeding him Hill's was the best thing I could for him. My own research brought me to the bupe. Reuben eats and drinks very well, he has gained weight and health since he started eating Dr Lisa Pierson's recipe. Sometimes I give him water orally with a syringe if I think he is not drinking enough. His stomach is a little upset sometimes, but rarely throws up anymore. He is not longer constipated or the opposite (this took a while).


DO NOT GIVE YOUR CAT TEA TREE OIL -- it's toxic to cats and dogs. Here's the link to the poison information. Combing a diluted solution of cider vinegar through Reuben's coat will help with a mild case of fleas. I would, however, make sure that you don't have fleas in the house.
Click to expand...

Thank heavens you told me, I just got home from the health food store where I ordered it. How often and for how long does the vinegar treatment usually take in your experience? I assume there are fleas in the house, if they are on him. What do you advise to resolve this?
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Hi Alexa you asked about a comment I made yesterday "Yesterday you said high numbers are an indication that he is not fully utilizing the nutrition from the food ". How is this resolved?
Biology is not my area, from my reading on diabetes, this is my simplistic understanding that I trust more knowledgeable folks will correct where I have it wrong.
Food provides glucose into the bloodstream to nourish all the cells in the body. Insulin interacts with glucose to enable the cells to utilize the glucose in the bloodstream. Diabetes is a condition where there is not enough insulin to utilize the blood glocose so the cells get less glucose than they need, and the unused glucose remains in the blood. Thus high blood glucose means not enough insulin available. To treat this, we measure the amount of blood glucose and give insulin as needed so the cells can use the glucose and whats left in the bloodstream is in the normal range. Normal bg means the cells are getting enough glucose there is not excess in the bloodstream while the cells go hungry. When the cells are hungry the cat is hungry so high bg might predict hungry cat or cat eating a lot. That is my simple understanding behind my comment yesterday, just keep in mind I am no expert and I learn something new every day here :smile: .
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

So the vet did not do any test, fPLI, to know what is going on?
Was the fPLI test done earlier and the u/s later to confirm or something?

Terrible illness and nothing can be done? That's a lousy statement!
Is your cat eating? If eating and not vomiting, then you likely don't need the pepcid.
The bupe I think is weight based, but I never gave my cats what was given for dosing; I always gave less. My Oliver could not handle even the smallest amount of bupe; he was like a drunk, so I had to use a diff pain med for him.

My Shadoe would not eat and was in quite alot of pain as she growled when her abdomen was touched.
She had frequent bouts and I gave her pepcid BID to ward off her upset stomach, and kept fluids on hand for her bouts.

When I changed to a better vet, he told me to give her weekly B12 shots at home and it would help with her inflamed pancreas. It did help and she had only 1 minor issue after I started giving her shots, plus she did not need the pepcid anymore.

I would be concerned if a vet told me something was a terrible illness and nothing could be done. Pancreatitis may be painful, but there are most definitely things you can do about it.
I know of another person who is giving their cat pancreatic powder which seems to be helping her cat, so there ARE things that can be done to help.

If your cat is eating well, I wonder about saying your cat has pancreatitis.

Instead of syringing water, you can easily add the water to your cat's wet food. My cats love the water in their foods.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

You can increase when it's convenient. You need to get at least one spot check per cycle. So if you can routinely get a before bed test every night, that would be great.

I'm not sure what to tell you about the fleas. Jill passed along the info on the cider vinegar. When I hear back from her, I'll let you know what she says. You might want to post on Health to ask what to do regarding getting rid of any fleas that are in the house.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

I can't recall for sure but I did give Frontline or Advantage to all of my cats, one of those, and 2 of 4 were on insulin.
Maybe there are some treatments that are not preferred for diabetics?
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Sienne and Gabby said:
You can increase when it's convenient. You need to get at least one spot check per cycle. So if you can routinely get a before bed test every night, that would be great.

Okay. I just gave him 1.75u, and I`ll test in a couple of hours. Just curious what you would/might expect his reaction to be to the dose increase. And do you have any recommendation/opinion about feeding at this point. Do you think it matters or not? I am feeding every 2 or 3 hours. Any other advice that I don`t know I need is also appreciated. I want to get this right for him.

I'm not sure what to tell you about the fleas. Jill passed along the info on the cider vinegar. When I hear back from her, I'll let you know what she says. You might want to post on Health to ask what to do regarding getting rid of any fleas that are in the house.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot; I'll wait for your update from Jill and post in Health
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

This is from Jill:
diluted apple cider vinegar will only work if there's a couple of fleas on the cat (you caught it right away). it's not a heavy duty treatment. if there's an infestation she'll have to go with one of the hardcore flea treatments like frontline plus or advantage.

i've never had to treat the house other than vacuuming meticulously... including under furniture. this stuff is supposed to be the best for treating the house: http://www.fleabuster.com/. the key is to follow the directions carefully. i actually bought some this spring to have on hand since fleas and ticks are a huge problem down here this year, but i haven't had to use it yet. some people use borax powder in the same way
Click to expand...
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Blue said:
So the vet did not do any test, fPLI, to know what is going on?
Was the fPLI test done earlier and the u/s later to confirm or something?

No, I have not found any vet here that will do the fPLI test. The u/s was done as one of many many tests done to try to determine the cause of his mysterious and fatally ill health.

Terrible illness and nothing can be done? That's a lousy statement!

No kidding :-)

Is your cat eating? If eating and not vomiting, then you likely don't need the pepcid.

Yes, he eats now (major accomplishment), and is vomiting less (since we started insulin). He does have an an upset stomach after eating, and seems to be uncomfortable/in pain.

The bupe I think is weight based, but I never gave my cats what was given for dosing; I always gave less. My Oliver could not handle even the smallest amount of bupe; he was like a drunk, so I had to use a diff pain med for him.

I would like to give him something less powerful than the impression I have of bupe - what did you give Oliver?

My Shadoe would not eat and was in quite alot of pain as she growled when her abdomen was touched.
She had frequent bouts and I gave her pepcid BID to ward off her upset stomach, and kept fluids on hand for her bouts.

Ah, so That is why he sometimes won't let me touch his abdomen!! Whew! I was worried about some undetected Other reason... biig sigh of relief. I asked the vet what the pain was and he didn`t know (nor did he offer to figure it out - are we seeing a pattern here? ha ha :roll: )

When I changed to a better vet, he told me to give her weekly B12 shots at home and it would help with her inflamed pancreas. It did help and she had only 1 minor issue after I started giving her shots, plus she did not need the pepcid anymore.

What were the issues she had? Reuben`s biggest issue is intestinal infection. If it is not under control he unravels Fast and stops eating and drinking.

I would be concerned if a vet told me something was a terrible illness and nothing could be done. Pancreatitis may be painful, but there are most definitely things you can do about it.

He was better at least that the ones before him that said I should go buy a casket and dig a hole for my cat (because they couldn`t figure out what was wrong with him). After the diagnosis and lack of ah... information from the vet, I did all the research I could manage and started feeding him Dr Pierson, giving metoclopramide, keeping him hydrated, found an antibiotic that kept the intestinal infection under control, and then came and found you guys :-) )

I know of another person who is giving their cat pancreatic powder which seems to be helping her cat, so there ARE things that can be done to help.
what is the magic powder??

If your cat is eating well, I wonder about saying your cat has pancreatitis.
Magic to my ears!!!!

Instead of syringing water, you can easily add the water to your cat's wet food. My cats love the water in their foods.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he likes his food unsullied, hahaa. Watered down food makes him Mad cat(2)_steam

Yeah, he definitely doesn`t feel great after eating... Before he ate just now he was super animated, and now is sitting in meatloaf position, and doesn`t respond to me. hmm and just burped, poor thing!
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Sienne and Gabby said:
This is from Jill:
diluted apple cider vinegar will only work if there's a couple of fleas etc.....

Thanks Sienne and Jill, much appreciated. If people are using the hardcore stuff on their FD cats here then I will too... I think I probably didn`t catch it in time to have the vinegar work. i`ll check out fleabuster and vacuum like mad
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Blue said:
I can't recall for sure but I did give Frontline or Advantage to all of my cats, one of those, and 2 of 4 were on insulin.
Maybe there are some treatments that are not preferred for diabetics?
Click to expand...

Thanks for weighing in. It is sounding like I can give him Frontline, which is what they sell here. I`ll do a search specifically on preferred flea treatments for diabetic cats and see what comes up.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Leslie and Jasper said:
Hi Alexa you asked about a comment I made yesterday ...etc..

I guess trying to get the pancreas to start producing insulin again - by doing what everyone is doing here - is the answer! You sure seem to have found a magic wand to wave over the situation with Jasper! Any hints?
Click to expand...
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

If Reuben is eating, I would try giving him 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet of Pepsid AC (the generic is famotidine). You would give Reuben the pill about 30 min. prior to his eating. See if that helps to settle his stomach.

I wouldn't worry about the bupe. It is a strong pain killer but it's safe and it's widely used.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Dyana said:
My vet wrote to give .10 of Buprenex to J.D., and I found that to be too much and it made him so he was all wobbily, and stoned (but maybe that's a good thing, I don't know), I ended up halving the dose and giving him 0.05 and he did much better (was able to walk). I also closed the door to the basement and brought the litter box upstairs so that he wouldn't fall trying to walk down the stairs into the basement, and I think while I was giving it I also shut the bedroom door, so he would jump up onto my high bed as it was the jumping down from it that concerned me most.

We use Frontline Plus (because of the ticks here), in the summer for 3 applications... around May 15th, July 1st, and August 15th as our summers are short, thankfully. Once the frost hits the fleas are gone.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dyana - yes, I'm hearing that the doses of prescribed of Buprenex are a little strong! Not being able to walk, goodness that must have been a little scary ..We may not need a drug this strong; at this point he seems to be in mild pain I would guess. Just sits tolerating the world sometimes, and definitely after eating he feels rotten.

Everyone is saying they are using Frontline or Advantage, so we will too. I was just afraid of chemicals that strong while he is not 100%. But the fleas are driving him Crazy! I don`t know if it will get cold enough here for the fleas to disappear. I`ll just have to be vigilant!
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

rhiannon and shadow said:
I'm not dosing advise either.I was just happy to see you had numbers today instead of Hi.

maybe if you put dosing ? in the subject line it would get someone who knows what to do .
Or you could just directly try pm to one of the people like Sienne.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the support Rhiannon! And that makes me laugh - 'numbers instead of 'HI''... -- hahaa, truly!! Well, we'll see what happens with the .25u more that we added tonight. And thanks for the suggestion about how to get attention for my post. It sounds like I was supposed to make a new condo with the question. Next time! I hope you and Shadow have a good night!
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Sienne and Gabby said:
If Reuben is eating, I would try giving him 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet of Pepsid AC (the generic is famotidine). You would give Reuben the pill about 30 min. prior to his eating. See if that helps to settle his stomach.

I wouldn't worry about the bupe. It is a strong pain killer but it's safe and it's widely used.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sienne, Yes, he is definitely eating so I`ll try the famotidine. And get a prescription for the bupe.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Hi Alexa,
Here's another vote in favor of Frontline Plus. We use it on Rusty (during flea season as a preventative) because it kills fleas, flea eggs, and ticks (Advantage does not work on ticks, only fleas). Back in the days before Frontline and similar skin-applied remedies we had a terrible case of fleas with our kitty Alice. Our bed was full of little white pellets (which we learned were flea eggs). We had to have her "dipped". And I spent the next 6 months vacuuming every day. Get Frontline Plus. Rusty has no reaction from it; neither did Stu (GA).

Good luck!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Hi Alexa, Sorry if I gave you a "wrong" answer on tea tree oil for flea. Ive been using that for over 10 odd yrs on all my cats but its a never on kitten. Because they are indoor cats, the problem on flea is not severe. Other than using it on my cats I also dilute the tea tree oil for household cleaning everyday. I dont use any chemical inside my home where cats can get to.
Hope you find the right solution to get rid of those nasty little insects.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Hi. Glad to see Reuben is getting a little better. "Baby steps," a lot of people say, and it's so true sometimes.
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Alexa,
Here's another vote in favor of Frontline Plus. We use it on Rusty (during flea season as a preventative) because it kills fleas, flea eggs, and ticks (Advantage does not work on ticks, only fleas). Back in the days before Frontline and similar skin-applied remedies we had a terrible case of fleas with our kitty Alice. Our bed was full of little white pellets (which we learned were flea eggs). We had to have her "dipped". And I spent the next 6 months vacuuming every day. Get Frontline Plus. Rusty has no reaction from it; neither did Stu (GA).

Good luck!

Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Ella, we will get the Frontline Plus tomorrow, and avoid complications such as those you had to endure! Everyone has convinced me that he will be fine, and I just want the little devils OFF of him!!

- Alexa & Reuben
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

MelanieAndRacci said:
Hi Alexa,

From his numbers today and the other day, it looks like his nadir is probably between 3 & 4.5. I would try narrowing it down. It's important info to know how low he goes when setting a dose for him. You still have very little data. He definitely needs an increase and it can't hurt to give him a .25u increase but it would be good for you to discuss it with one of the dosing pros like Marje or Sienne. They may tell you to go .5u or even to wait for a little more data. If you don't get an answer from one of them I would increase by .25u in the morning, not at night. It will help if you put dosing question in your subject line so Marje, or Jane or Dyana or Sienne see it.

This sticky on the TR Protocol may help you: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581#p13523 also.

You do want to feed more on the way down than the way up but be careful not to feed too much going down either or you will stop his trip down and also if you need to control his numbers by feeding a little here and there to keep him from going too low, he'll be full and you won't be able to. The best thing is small frequent meals all day.

Melanie & Racci
Click to expand...
Hi Melanie - I`m sorry I missed your message in the flurry of communication!! I did give him the .25u increase as per Sienne's advice, and gave it to him tonight, as it was not disadvised. I tested a +2 and got 475. I can`t imagine how high it was up above 500 in order for it to take 2 hours to come down to 475! I really need to know more about why this is happening, and how badly it can affect him. Research for the morning! I`ll check at +3 and see what an hour has done.

Yes, that sticky is where I got the .25u after 2 days information. I need to go back and keep reading, since I got sidetracked and ended up here making the decision to increase.

How much, in your experience, constitutes a 'small meal'... a couple of tablespoons? And frequent is how often? I`m realizing that need to try being very intentional with the feeding.

Thanks again so much Melanie!

See you tomorrow,
Alexa
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

tortie58 said:
Hi Alexa, Sorry if I gave you a "wrong" answer on tea tree oil for flea. Ive been using that for over 10 odd yrs on all my cats but its a never on kitten. Because they are indoor cats, the problem on flea is not severe. Other than using it on my cats I also dilute the tea tree oil for household cleaning everyday. I dont use any chemical inside my home where cats can get to.
Hope you find the right solution to get rid of those nasty little insects.
Click to expand...
Oh don`t worry Tortie!! I`m glad you told me about tea tree oil. I ran right out and ordered it from the health food store and it will be here on Thursday. I think that because we are in the jungle and the little buggers are bionic we'll have to use the Frontline chemical solution, but I`m looking forward to using the oil to clean with. How do you use it? Have a great Tuesday there, I hope all your kitties are well and happy :smile: -Alexa
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 +5 309 +6 427

max&emmasmommie said:
Hi. Glad to see Reuben is getting a little better. "Baby steps," a lot of people say, and it's so true sometimes.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the encouragement Dale :smile:
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 PMPS 'HI' +2 4

Hi Alexa.
I'm glad you got your answers! Sienne must have posted while I was typing. :lol: I do my increases in the morning because I like to be awake at nadir to make sure she is not going too low. That's not something you really have to worry about yet but you do want to keep him from going low enough to bounce right now so he can get a break if he can.

What I feed Racci is about 2-3 tsp of lc every 3 hours or so. If she is still hungry I will let her have another tsp if it doesn't look like I will need to steer her numbers. When they go too low, we steer their numbers by giving them a little hc and lc together and we want them to be hungry enough to eat every half hour or so for that. She also gets treats when tested. I mix a little water with her food and make sure she has fresh cold water out and nearby at all times.

I use the Frontline Plus also btw. The best thing I've found for the house is Adams Flea Powder. You have to keep Reuben out of the room until you're all done though. I had to use it when I lived in FL and my dog brought them in. It was the only thing that worked. You put it all over the rugs, under the furniture, etc, leave it for a while, then vacuum well. I would leave a line of it around the border of the wall and door where the animals wouldn't be lying down as a precaution. You just have to go room by room and keep the animals out of the room you're working on. It's not for use on animals.

I don't know how you feel about your vet, but I would consider looking for a more knowledgeable vet now that Reuben has Pancreatitis and Diabetes. We pretty much handle the diabetes on our own but his attitude on the pancreatitis was terrible and could have been very dangerous. Luckily Reuben had you.

Your question about the high numbers and how it affects him is a good one. It's definitely not good for him. At this point you just have to wait it out though so don't make yourself crazy over it. Remember I said to always test for ketones when he is high? He is at higher risk for ketones at those levels, as well as damage to the organs from extended high bg's. He is being treated now though and his pancreas, liver, kidneys are all getting a break every time his numbers go down. You would like to keep his numbers below the renal threshold of 200 and the ideal is within the normal range of 50-120. His biggest danger was when he was undiagnosed and that high.

Now when he's high like that and has the added stress of pancreatitis you want to make sure you keep checking ketones so nothing else develops, keep his carbs low and stresses low and hydration high and raise his insulin as needed. I would take care of the fleas and the pain meds too and lower those stresses. You're doing all the right things.

Have a great night!

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 PMPS 'HI' +2 4

MelanieAndRacci said:
Hi Alexa.
I'm glad you got your answers! Sienne must have posted while I was typing. :lol: I do my increases in the morning because I like to be awake at nadir to make sure she is not going too low. That's not something you really have to worry about yet but you do want to keep him from going low enough to bounce right now so he can get a break if he can.

What I feed Racci is about 2-3 tsp of lc every 3 hours or so. If she is still hungry I will let her have another tsp if it doesn't look like I will need to steer her numbers. When they go too low, we steer their numbers by giving them a little hc and lc together and we want them to be hungry enough to eat every half hour or so for that. She also gets treats when tested. I mix a little water with her food and make sure she has fresh cold water out and nearby at all times.

I use the Frontline Plus also btw. The best thing I've found for the house is Adams Flea Powder. You have to keep Reuben out of the room until you're all done though. I had to use it when I lived in FL and my dog brought them in. It was the only thing that worked. You put it all over the rugs, under the furniture, etc, leave it for a while, then vacuum well. I would leave a line of it around the border of the wall and door where the animals wouldn't be lying down as a precaution. You just have to go room by room and keep the animals out of the room you're working on. It's not for use on animals.

I don't know how you feel about your vet, but I would consider looking for a more knowledgeable vet now that Reuben has Pancreatitis and Diabetes. We pretty much handle the diabetes on our own but his attitude on the pancreatitis was terrible and could have been very dangerous. Luckily Reuben had you.

Your question about the high numbers and how it affects him is a good one. It's definitely not good for him. At this point you just have to wait it out though so don't make yourself crazy over it. Remember I said to always test for ketones when he is high? He is at higher risk for ketones at those levels, as well as damage to the organs from extended high bg's. He is being treated now though and his pancreas, liver, kidneys are all getting a break every time his numbers go down. You would like to keep his numbers below the renal threshold of 200 and the ideal is within the normal range of 50-120. His biggest danger was when he was undiagnosed and that high.

Now when he's high like that and has the added stress of pancreatitis you want to make sure you keep checking ketones so nothing else develops, keep his carbs low and stresses low and hydration high and raise his insulin as needed. I would take care of the fleas and the pain meds too and lower those stresses. You're doing all the right things.

Have a great night!

Melanie & Racci
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm still up... testing every hour. I think it looks good, under the circumstances: PMPS HI... +2 475 +3 372 +4 339 +5 315. I want to see +6 but I'm sooo tired. I'm going to nap for 45 min. and then get it. hopefully! i'll answer your post in the a.m. - thank you so much for all your help!

you guys have a great night too,
(i'm typing 1 handed, reuben asleep in my other arm :-))

Alexa & Reuben
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 PMPS 'HI' +2 4

MelanieAndRacci said:
Hi Alexa.
I'm glad you got your answers! Sienne must have posted while I was typing. :lol: I do my increases in the morning..... etc


Hi, I'm still up... testing every hour. I think it looks good, under the circumstances: PMPS HI... +2 475 +3 372 +4 339 +5 315. What do you think? I want to see +6 but I'm sooo tired. I'm going to nap for 45 min. and then get it, hopefully! i'll answer your post in the a.m. I`m just tooo tired to think, or write - thank you so very much for all your help!

you guys have a great night too,
(i'm typing 1 handed, reuben asleep in my other arm :-))

Alexa & Reuben
Click to expand...
 
Re: QUESTIONS:) 8/20 Rueben AMPS 476 +2.5 275 PMPS 'HI' +2 4

Wonderful nunbers! He's going down nice and slow. That's perfect! He won't bounce. Going to bed too right after Racci's 3.5 test now. Oh, I'll be babysitting so will be hard to get online but will be on & off as I can. My DGS hogs the puter & my lap. :lol:
Talk to you tomorrow.

Good Night!
Melanie & Racci
 
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