question.. (???)

[kitten68]

hello! well I was thinking about some things and have some questions if anyone can suggest some two cents.. mine initially on same dose AM/PM and is now on two different doses AM/PM (bit higher dose AM, lower previous dose still PM) and im wondering if it really should be.. equal amounts morning/night.. to keep things level throughout 24 hrs? im going to call the vet and see.. what they think. but anyone got an idea/opinion, please.

also, 4 days too soon to increase a dose?.. I'm just observing and want him to feel as best as he can as soon as is feasible, without rushing finding the best dose atm right.. have been wanting to be conservative and that's how its been so far.. but I been looking at numbers and since it's uneven.. the AM dose is just showing better numbers.

OOH. also, what's this phenomenon where the insulin makes it go so low that the body shoots the bloodstream with glucose to stop from teetering, so readings look high? anyone know what that is?.. and how to tell?.. ugh. *cries.

thanks ..

 

[kitten68]

PS. will fill SS as soon as able.. need to also read records to get earlier readings as wasn't able to start testing til later..

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

We generally recommend that you give the same amount of insulin at each shot time. This is less of an issue with Vetsulin since it is in and out of your cat's system in less than 12 hours. However, for the sake of consistency and to eliminate any unnecessary variables, I would give the same amount of insulin at each shot time. The other issue is that without a spreadsheet, we can't really offer any insight into whether how you're dosing is working or not.

What it sounds like you're referring to is what we call a "bounce."

Please review the information on dosing with Vetsulin in our beginner's guide. Please don't rush things, especially not with Vetsulin. It is a harsh, fast acting insulin and if you go too fast, there's a good chance you will have to manage scary low numbers.

 

[kitten68]

this is what I was thinking.. I mean. :/ should be even, no? and yes tho exactly.. trying to go slow cause don't want to rush and miss and deal w anything harsh.. thanks for tips. AND just filled it! PLZ lmk if you see it.. did my best.... ;__; wanted to get that in asap....

 

[kitten68]

I also wrote some remarks; will be writing remarks pretty frequently probably for extra info.. hope is cool.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

You also need to get a minimum of one test every night during the PM cycle. We generally suggest a "before bed" test. Without PM cycle information, you're missing half of your data.

 

[kitten68]

understand.. just doing what i can rn. not distressing him more than absolutely needed..

 

[Shell]

hello! well I was thinking about some things and have some questions if anyone can suggest some two cents.. mine initially on same dose AM/PM and is now on two different doses AM/PM (bit higher dose AM, lower previous dose still PM) and im wondering if it really should be.. equal amounts morning/night.. to keep things level throughout 24 hrs? im going to call the vet and see.. what they think. but anyone got an idea/opinion, please.

also, 4 days too soon to increase a dose?.. I'm just observing and want him to feel as best as he can as soon as is feasible, without rushing finding the best dose atm right.. have been wanting to be conservative and that's how its been so far.. but I been looking at numbers and since it's uneven.. the AM dose is just showing better numbers.

OOH. also, what's this phenomenon where the insulin makes it go so low that the body shoots the bloodstream with glucose to stop from teetering, so readings look high? anyone know what that is?.. and how to tell?.. ugh. *cries.

thanks ..

Yes, 4 days is too soon to increase the dose. I've been trying to finally regulate Pumpkin since his surgery in January. I told my Vet I wanted to just up the dose because his numbers were really bothering me so high. She said that it is better high than low. And, that prolonged high numbers is not good. But, she assured me that in order to get the correct dosage, he has to be on the same dosage for 10 days in order to get an accurate curve.

I know you are using a different insulin though, so I am not sure if the same rule applies.

I want to add a very important point. For almost half of a year, my Vet was under the impression I was using an animal meter, resulting in miscommunication. So, ask your Vet if they mean 140 on a human meter or 140 for an animal meter. That is, if they are not aware of the type of meter you use to test. It could save you months of minor miscommunication between you and your Vet .

 

[kitten68]

Yes, 4 days is too soon to increase the dose. I've been trying to finally regulate Pumpkin since his surgery in January. I told my Vet I wanted to just up the dose because his numbers were really bothering me so high. She said that it is better high than low. And, that prolonged high numbers is not good. But, she assured me that in order to get the correct dosage, he has to be on the same dosage for 10 days in order to get an accurate curve.

I know you are using a different insulin though, so I am not sure if the same rule applies.

I want to add a very important point. For almost half of a year, my Vet was under the impression I was using an animal meter, resulting in miscommunication. So, ask your Vet if they mean 140 on a human meter or 140 for an animal meter. That is, if they are not aware of the type of meter you use to test. It could save you months of minor miscommunication between you and your Vet .

SHELL hii thanks for checking in and letting mk.. I figured when it comes to this, you have to give at least a week or two to see.. which sucks. he's supposed to go tmw, but that makes it only just a week.. and he missed a dose last week (more below..) and I will be asking on this.. and OH they know it's a human one.

y'know.. right after I posted this question, that night has been one of his best nights so far.. the insulin seemed to be working. I tested him at night his number was 202 (!!!).. he was acting way more himself and being beautiful.. and I didn't know what to do.. cause he's on Vetsulin and they say HERE a number that low needs to be re-tested, etc. and I had already fed him.. y'know im learning, and on top of it (probably biggest) I couldn't get an answer from the vet on time (who claimed they could be called 24 hrs a day.....) whether to give him a dose that night, to give the full one, to halve it based off that number, I had no idea.. so to be safe he missed that dose. and it's been a few days since and his sugars are high again and he's not feeling great.. and shell I'm discouraged. I hate he doesn't feel well.. how long did Pumpkin take to feel better or you saw improvement? I hear it takes lots of time.. looks like it's not working.. then does.. but idk. and part of me is like so bitter I couldn't get an answer (from vet; the forum got back saying I did good not giving it (thanks!).. but now im sad cause idk what happened; he had eaten and probably could have..) about Friday cuz I feel like it set us back.. like if you miss a dose, does it take days to get back on track again? (not sure..)

idk what to do or think honestly.. he's back on his schedule and it's day 3.. tmw is day 4 (last week was also day 4 when his sugars were looking better) he also has apparently some liver issues (?) which im trying to address too.. (they want 600 bucks for an ultrasound to check further........) and im just.. ?

also, it's being suggested to take more readings.. but I don't think he can. he's so upset having to do them.. they make him miserable (!) and im trying to keep his morale up. so what readings I can get, I will.. tbh im just prioritizing PS and nadir.....

we're tired. I was told it's a marathon, not a sprint (sorry I can't recall who..) but trying to hang in there.. im not sure what to think.

 

[Shell]

SHELL hii thanks for checking in and letting mk.. I figured when it comes to this, you have to give at least a week or two to see.. which sucks. he's supposed to go tmw, but that makes it only just a week.. and he missed a dose last week (more below..) and I will be asking on this.. and OH they know it's a human one.

y'know.. right after I posted this question, that night has been one of his best nights so far.. the insulin seemed to be working. I tested him at night his number was 202 (!!!).. he was acting way more himself and being beautiful.. and I didn't know what to do.. cause he's on Vetsulin and they say HERE a number that low needs to be re-tested, etc. and I had already fed him.. y'know im learning, and on top of it (probably biggest) I couldn't get an answer from the vet on time (who claimed they could be called 24 hrs a day.....) whether to give him a dose that night, to give the full one, to halve it based off that number, I had no idea.. so to be safe he missed that dose. and it's been a few days since and his sugars are high again and he's not feeling great.. and shell I'm discouraged. I hate he doesn't feel well.. how long did Pumpkin take to feel better or you saw improvement? I hear it takes lots of time.. looks like it's not working.. then does.. but idk. and part of me is like so bitter I couldn't get an answer (from vet; the forum got back saying I did good not giving it (thanks!).. but now im sad cause idk what happened; he had eaten and probably could have..) about Friday cuz I feel like it set us back.. like if you miss a dose, does it take days to get back on track again? (not sure..)

idk what to do or think honestly.. he's back on his schedule and it's day 3.. tmw is day 4 (last week was also day 4 when his sugars were looking better) he also has apparently some liver issues (?) which im trying to address too.. (they want 600 bucks for an ultrasound to check further........) and im just.. ?

also, it's being suggested to take more readings.. but I don't think he can. he's so upset having to do them.. they make him miserable (!) and im trying to keep his morale up. so what readings I can get, I will.. tbh im just prioritizing PS and nadir.....

we're tired. I was told it's a marathon, not a sprint (sorry I can't recall who..) but trying to hang in there.. im not sure what to think.

From my experience, it could take a few days to get on track if a dose is missed. And, sometimes not. But, I believe that any subsequent elevation in glucose numbers could come as a result of the missed dose.

My Vet has always said - Better high than low - when I have called her upset about his elevated numbers. It's not a simple disorder to decode. But, with the forum, we have the basic guidelines to guide toward better health

Did you happen to try offering a little freeze dried treat after his test? Maybe even a pets session?

 

[kitten68]

From my experience, it could take a few days to get on track if a dose is missed. And, sometimes not. But, I believe that any subsequent elevation in glucose numbers could come as a result of the missed dose.

My Vet has always said - Better high than low - when I have called her upset about his elevated numbers. It's not a simple disorder to decode. But, with the forum, we have the basic guidelines to guide toward better health

Did you happen to try offering a little freeze dried treat after his test? Maybe even a pets session?

good to know.. numbers are looking bit better but eh. and it certainly isn't.. it certainly isn't. it's slow going finding what works.. and i'm going to start reading more on it again. cause it can vary hour to hour.. moment to moment even right? good to know high is better than low also.. thanks for this. but SIGH.

and yes! always do w treats and everything.. both, have to; the testing is going bit better cause im also just better at it but im also not going to stress him much more.. will get what readings I can. he truly hates them. his ear might hurt. it's enough with the regimen twice a day.. :/ now have more tips and tricks.. but ugh.

 

[Shell]

good to know.. numbers are looking bit better but eh. and it certainly isn't.. it certainly isn't. it's slow going finding what works.. and i'm going to start reading more on it again. cause it can vary hour to hour.. moment to moment even right? good to know high is better than low also.. thanks for this. but SIGH.

and yes! always do w treats and everything.. both, have to; the testing is going bit better cause im also just better at it but im also not going to stress him much more.. will get what readings I can. he truly hates them. his ear might hurt. it's enough with the regimen twice a day.. :/ now have more tips and tricks.. but ugh.

For the first few months, I could see the ears were a little red. But, you will get better at testing! Pumpkin rarely shows marks anymore when I test. I don't know if it is because of my technique or if the ear just get's immune to it.

 

[kitten68]

For the first few months, I could see the ears were a little red. But, you will get better at testing! Pumpkin rarely shows marks anymore when I test. I don't know if it is because of my technique or if the ear just get's immune to it.

tyy for saying cuz yes think so its easy peasy now.. no big deal.. i actually look forward to seeing. gotta get done so it does. i just dont think i can do it multiple times a day, every day.. will try here and there. also will be doing nadir more now (dose changed slightly +) to see.. i think the ears just have more vessels there so that helps and blood flows much better too.. tho yeah. he hate it.. but we do it.

ps. got any tips on making shots less painful?.. idk what. just doing quick and fast at moment.. find it quick and bit slow w injecting is a no. also probably need to find other areas and not same one.. just doing shoulder blades/upper spine..

 

[SpotsMom]

ps. got any tips on making shots less painful?.. idk what. just doing quick and fast at moment.. find it quick and bit slow w injecting is a no. also probably need to find other areas and not same one.. just doing shoulder blades/upper spine..

Spot gets his injections on his sides/flank. He never did like getting them between his shoulders. You can really do it wherever it’s comfortable as long as there is enough skin to pull out to make a tent.

 

[Don Degludec]

I'm not sure whether these already have been addressed, apologies if they have.

1. Are you planning to get the insulin changed any time soon? Either to ProZinc or Lantus/Levemir/Tresiba?
[We were on Caninsulin when we started out over a year ago, and my boy's numbers were all over the place on it too.]

2. Insulin shots shouldn't hurt him, unless you're using an acidic one - which you do not currently. Why do you think they do? Does he behave differently?
[Again, my otherwise docile, cuddly boy became incredibly feisty and bitey around shot times too -he's never before bitten me in 10+ years!-, and took a lot of figuring to realise it's not the actual shot/act of injecting that hurt him. It was his way of communicating he didn't want the shot, because he knew it would make him feel pants with such steep drops and/or when his dose was too high and he constantly experienced rebounds that I didn't yet catch. Just food for thought.]

3. Are you massaging his ears pre-testing to encourage blood flow and/or are you using the warm rice-in-a-sock method?
[We struggled a lot with the testing at the beginning too, but by now he got used to it so much, he doesn't even demand treats after. I have also found that once the BG drops and the blood becomes less concentrated with sugar, it's much easier to test, as it's less thicker/flows easier.]

 

[kitten68]

I'm not sure whether these already have been addressed, apologies if they have.

1. Are you planning to get the insulin changed any time soon? Either to ProZinc or Lantus/Levemir/Tresiba?
[We were on Caninsulin when we started out over a year ago, and my boy's numbers were all over the place on it too.]

2. Insulin shots shouldn't hurt him, unless you're using an acidic one - which you do not currently. Why do you think they do? Does he behave differently?
[Again, my otherwise docile, cuddly boy became incredibly feisty and bitey around shot times too -he's never before bitten me in 10+ years!-, and took a lot of figuring to realise it's not the actual shot/act of injecting that hurt him. It was his way of communicating he didn't want the shot, because he knew it would make him feel pants with such steep drops and/or when his dose was too high and he constantly experienced rebounds that I didn't yet catch. Just food for thought.]

3. Are you massaging his ears pre-testing to encourage blood flow and/or are you using the warm rice-in-a-sock method?
[We struggled a lot with the testing at the beginning too, but by now he got used to it so much, he doesn't even demand treats after. I have also found that once the BG drops and the blood becomes less concentrated with sugar, it's much easier to test, as it's less thicker/flows easier.]

hi! np
1) I would.. but to change would cost another curve plus insulin.. his numbers don't seem too crazy fortunately but I do keep hearing those are better.. doing what can rn. hoping it helps him. it does bring his numbers down. I haven't been too concerned with his numbers. his meter tho tonite!!! first it was 303.. then 263 (!!!.. I did 2 more tests (269, 280-something..) is the meter bad? does this happen? now I don't trust it.. I wiped the machine down very lightly today with a little alcohol swab, did not touch the screen, which still has that protective plastic slip over it.. did that damage it? was the strip bad? terrible!!!!

2) I did it tonite quick and fast and he didn't flinch as bad will do that. he gets lots of treats and food hopefully with time it'll pester him less and less.. hoping that's ok. some more food has been the best distraction, plus snacks/treats.. he's doing so good.

3) yess I try to do that.. but he's mad at having to do it and luckily now his ears are flowing much better. I hear doing this helps the ear produce faster over time, more capillaries develop.

thanks for tips and suggestions

 

[Don Degludec]

No worries.
Hopefully once you have enough data, you could convince your vet against having to admit him in for a curve and will be lenient to go by your spreadsheet and prescribe a better insulin based on your data.

I replied to the test strip question in your other thread

 

[kitten68]

thanks so much!! maybe so have heard there's a better chance of healing with it ~ thing is tho too is that in the States medicine can be so expensive and Lantus/Glargine is much higher than Vetsulin (supposedly); it's prohibitive but have heard the forum has ways of getting it affordably.. but am happy to be trying this and it's been ok so far (?) taking things carefully, also hear healing can happen with it too, seeing.. but good to know. and I did see! responded (tysm!)

 

[Shell]

ps. got any tips on making shots less painful?.. idk what. just doing quick and fast at moment.. find it quick and bit slow w injecting is a no. also probably need to find other areas and not same one.. just doing shoulder blades/upper spine..

I gently scruff the skin on the back of his neck and inject the needle just under the skin. Not intramuscular.

 

[Don Degludec]

I gently scruff the skin on the back of his neck and inject the needle just under the skin. Not intramuscular.

I would hope so!
Insulin is meant to be given subcutaneously by care givers, NOT intramuscularly!

 

[kitten68]

I gently scruff the skin on the back of his neck and inject the needle just under the skin. Not intramuscular.

oh i do this completely.. right in the tent. just the insertion of the needle bothers him.. but finding being well distracted (more food) and doing it FAST helps the most. *cries