Question about prozinc in general

[Ruby&Baco]

The Dutch forum wanted to know some things about the use of prozinc. They don't understand some advice that I get for using prozinc and dose advice so here it goes.
The lantus advisors on the dutch forum just asked me why you wouldn't support Baco with 1 or 2 drops of prozinc if she is below 180? This was an advice I got yesterday from you guys to not give her a drop.. But on the Dutch forum they would have done it. And now want to know why you wouldn't.
Can anyone explain this so I can tell them the reasons?
And another question (They keep asking me) are there people with cats on prozinc that EVER give drops instead of a bigger dose? Just like people do with lantus.. giving 1 or 2 drops.. Is that someting people do with prozinc?
They say that Canisulin has bigger drops in numbers after insulin than Prozinc, so in there eyes it's strange that I didn't get the advise to give a small dosis off Prozinc, but rather skip a dose... hope to hear from you!

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Well, I see us as a pretty conservative group of advice givers. For me personally, I always try to remember it is not my cat and the bean is counting on me to help keep their cat safe. If I think their dose is too much, I say so. If it's given anyway, I urge the bean to monitor. I never want to give advice that could send a cat into hypo. We don't see many hypos here because the advice is pretty conservative and the bean is advised about feeding to raise the numbers.

I can only speak for myself, but here is my thinking:

As regards 5/21, when the preshot number is below 130 or so, I think the cat is getting too much insulin or the pancreas is helping out. Those are the things that most often cause a low preshot. We know Baco wasn't getting too much insulin because you have been careful dosing. So I figure it could be the pancreas helping out. And if it is, adding insulin to a functioning pancreas - even a tiny amount - can mean a lower drop than is safe.

And with you, Ruby, you aren't always around to monitor, so on those cycles we tend to be conservative.

Yes, giving a drop of insulin is often a good idea. Usually it's done as the cat is going into remission. But still I would have trouble advising anyone to give a drop on a number below 150. Some people do but I don't.

Canninsulin tends to nadir earlier than ProZinc. So a hypo situation might be dangerous for the first five or six hours after the shot. With ProZinc, a hypo can start at +2/3 and continue for 8 hours. Not only exhausting for the bean, but also for the cat. (Not that my advice on Canninsulin is different than for ProZinc - I am still conservative.)

The way I see it is that Baco is looking really good. And her path has been a safe one. That is my goal.

I hope others will add their feelings.

 

[Ruby&Baco]

Thx Sue for all the information.
Will wait for other people to respond and then explain it to the dutch forum. They are also still learning from people like me/Baco. Prozinc is so new in the netherlands. So they want to know everything!

 

[Robin&BB]

Yes, giving a drop of insulin is often a good idea. Usually it's done as the cat is going into remission. But still I would have trouble advising anyone to give a drop on a number below 150. Some people do but I don't.

With ProZinc, a hypo can start at +2/3 and continue for 8 hours. Not only exhausting for the bean, but also for the cat.

I must agree with Sue here. ProZinc is not Lantus; the drop in BG levels on ProZinc can be steeper and faster than on Lantus, and every cat is different. Keeping a kitty out of any situation in which she may drop too low when the caregiver is not around to intervene is our primary concern here at FDMB.

The dosing for a cat on Lantus using Tight Regulation does not "translate" to dosing with Prozinc; I think that it is a mistake to make an assumption that this can/should be done.

And - as Sue has pointed out - you are not always around to monitor, Ruby.

I guess if it were me, what I would tell anyone who may be pushing me to apply a Lantus TR protocol to dosing your Baco on ProZinc is this: "Unless you are willing to come to my house and babysit/carefully monitor my cat while I am at work all day, please do not encourage me to do something that I may not feel comfortable doing."

I personally did not do "drops" of insulin at any time while Bat-Bat was on ProZinc. If she was too low to shoot and I was unable to bring her BG level up to "shootable #" in a reasonable amount of time, I simply skipped the dose. This did not appear to impede her progress in any way!

While I did eventually lower her "okay to shoot number" this was only when she was at a VERY TINY dose of ProZinc --- AND I was always able to be home to monitor her closely. But obviously not everyone can be at home 24 hours/day. (I will always err on the side of safety vs. trying to "reinvent the wheel" in some sort of rush to get my kitty into "picture-perfect" numbers.)

Treating feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint. Getting a cat's blood glucose numbers down to more normal levels is not a contest; we and our kitties are not participants on a "game show." Patience is required and most importantly: Safety first.

 

[Ruby&Baco]

I have to pass this message from the dutch forum:
We are very greatfull and appreciate all the help and explanation you are giving us.

haha, they are learning so much from you all (by Baco and me)

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

From my point of view from using both Lantus and Prozinc, they are very different at what number you can shoot. When I moved over to the Lantus Forum it took me a while to get rid of my "ProZinc Brain" as the two are so different, the curves are different and Lantus is better at keeping low numbers low but not as effective as bringing high numbers down as ProZinc can do.

 

[Ruby&Baco]

Thanks Bobbie for the info, I will let the Dutch forum know about your opinion as well!

 

[Rachel]

Our motto here is "first, do no harm". As Sue said, I focus on the fact that it is not my cat. I don't ever want to tell a bean to do something that will make their cat hypo. It will happen sometimes...but in my opinion, it's more important to slowly but surely trend downwards in numbers than to have sudden drops. We do tend to be conservative. If I was living next door to you, I might be more gutsy. I could stand there with you and help you monitor then. Since I can't do that, I want to give advice that I think will help bring the numbers down, but will keep the cat safe.

I don't think I have ever advised a shot of anything, even a drop at lower than 150. It is just too risky to me. As Sue said, if the pancreas is helping out, which is what I suspected with Baco, I don't want to advise any dose at that low number because we don't KNOW what could happen. It could really drop her and then she'd hypo and you'd have to feed to bring her back up, and she might skyrocket. It could take some time then to get her back. Instead, I advise skipping.