I just had a question about eating inbetween our twice daily insulin feedings, how much is generally allowed? We have some "special" dry kibble from the vet for Diabetic cats so I'm wondering how much do you guys feed your cats inbetween the insulin feedings? And what do you feed them? Is it ok for them to munch on some kibble and get a spoonful of soft food inbetween? Is half a can with the insulin enough?
Question about food snacking
- Thread starter Elphaba
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Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Very few people here feed dry food at all. See this website by a vet to understand why: www.catinfo.org. When we want to leave wet food out for grazing, we freeze it and let it thaw and/or use an automatic feeder.
BUT do not switch from dry food until you are testing at home (we would be glad to teach you how). When we switched our Oliver from dry to wet, he went down 100 points overnight. If we had given him his normal dose the next morning, he would have hypoed.
Give us some info about your kitty. What insulin? What dose?
Our protocol of wet food, a good insulin and home testing has helped thousands of cats into regulation and often remission. We'd love to help you help your kitty.
BUT do not switch from dry food until you are testing at home (we would be glad to teach you how). When we switched our Oliver from dry to wet, he went down 100 points overnight. If we had given him his normal dose the next morning, he would have hypoed.
Give us some info about your kitty. What insulin? What dose?
Our protocol of wet food, a good insulin and home testing has helped thousands of cats into regulation and often remission. We'd love to help you help your kitty.
Julia & Bandit (GA)
Member Since 2009
It's best for diabetics (both humans and cats) to eat several smaller meals throughout the day rather than two large ones. It helps keep blood sugar more level and assists with regulation.
I feed Bandit 4 times a day--about every 6 hours. If I'm not going to be home or if I want to be asleep, I freeze a portion of canned food and have my automatic feeder release it at the meal time.
There is no dry food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat. Even the "special" vet dry food is still too high in carbs for a diabetic and will keep your cat's Blood sugar high. I highly recommend that you return the dry food to the vet and get a refund--if you say your cat won't eat it, they'll give you a full refund.
What canned food are you feeding? There are many, many low carb canned food options for diabetic cats. Here's a link to the cat food nutrition charts: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. You just need something under 10% carbs.
However, and this is very important, do not change the diet unless you are home testing and reducing the insulin dose. Cat's blood sugar levels will drop 100-300 points once the dry food is removed, and about 25% go into spontaneous remission from the diet change alone. This can lead to a deadly hypoglycemic incident from an insulin overdose if you're not testing and making adjustments.
I feed Bandit 4 times a day--about every 6 hours. If I'm not going to be home or if I want to be asleep, I freeze a portion of canned food and have my automatic feeder release it at the meal time.
There is no dry food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat. Even the "special" vet dry food is still too high in carbs for a diabetic and will keep your cat's Blood sugar high. I highly recommend that you return the dry food to the vet and get a refund--if you say your cat won't eat it, they'll give you a full refund.
What canned food are you feeding? There are many, many low carb canned food options for diabetic cats. Here's a link to the cat food nutrition charts: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. You just need something under 10% carbs.
However, and this is very important, do not change the diet unless you are home testing and reducing the insulin dose. Cat's blood sugar levels will drop 100-300 points once the dry food is removed, and about 25% go into spontaneous remission from the diet change alone. This can lead to a deadly hypoglycemic incident from an insulin overdose if you're not testing and making adjustments.
squeem3
Member Since 2009
Nearly everyone on this boards feed canned food (some feed raw) and free feed it using a programmale timed feeder. Multiple small meals throughout the day is ideal for most diabetic cats. Canned food is ok if left out all day. There are ways to keep it fresher longer, like freezing the food first and adding extra water.
There's nothing special about prescription food, dry or canned. Not only is it expensive, they contain a lot of junky ingredients which makes commerical food seem almost like gourmet fare. The vet who holds the patent for Purina DM doesn't even recommend the food to any of her clients. Plus, dry food keeps blood glucose levels too high which makes regulating a diabetic really hard. The starches that holds the dry food in those little shapes is the reason why. Feeding your cat the right diet is important, just like it is for Human diabetics. Dry food = candy, cake, ice cream, pancakes slathered with syrup, etc. Many vets just don't know what the right diet is and will push the prescription stuff.
As Sue said, don't change the diet just yet. Doing so has a big impact on lowering blood gluocse levels and you don't want to risk a hypoglycemic cat. We can help you safely do a diet change :smile: What insulin is your cat on and what is the current dose?
There's nothing special about prescription food, dry or canned. Not only is it expensive, they contain a lot of junky ingredients which makes commerical food seem almost like gourmet fare. The vet who holds the patent for Purina DM doesn't even recommend the food to any of her clients. Plus, dry food keeps blood glucose levels too high which makes regulating a diabetic really hard. The starches that holds the dry food in those little shapes is the reason why. Feeding your cat the right diet is important, just like it is for Human diabetics. Dry food = candy, cake, ice cream, pancakes slathered with syrup, etc. Many vets just don't know what the right diet is and will push the prescription stuff.
As Sue said, don't change the diet just yet. Doing so has a big impact on lowering blood gluocse levels and you don't want to risk a hypoglycemic cat. We can help you safely do a diet change :smile: What insulin is your cat on and what is the current dose?
Wow thanks for all the responses, you guys are so nice!
So about Nom Nom. When I took him to the vet and they tested his blood sugar level to find out if he was diabetic, it was out of range and she couldn't even tell me what it was until she sent it to the lab for processing. I brought him back the next day and the results were 615. He started on insulin that day (3 days ago now). He is on 1 unit of ProZinc twice a day.
He's a big cat (17 pounds, use to be 25) so I worry that feeding him half a can of wet food twice a day isn't enough? The vet gave me 2 cans of the MD food, but I'm about to give him the last of it with his shot. Before this he got a little bit of wet food once a day(maybe a quarter of the can, shared with other cats), and he was just eating Purina Cat Chow the rest of the time. Since the shots started I have been giving him half a can every 12 hours and a teaspoon of kibble between feedings as a snack :/ I don't want to keep giving him the MD stuff since 1 - It's too expensive on top of the insulin and needles, 2 - Everyone here says it's no good and 3 - It looks bad compared to the other foods on the Binky chart! The Friskies Tuna and Ocean Whitefish look like they would be better, since they all range in 50+ for protein and seem lowest in carbs. What do you think? Or should I keep with the kibble because I'm not testing him at home yet??? The vet wants me to stick to the 1 unit dose for three weeks and then I am dropping him off for the day with her so she can do a curve test on his blood and see how it's going.
So about Nom Nom. When I took him to the vet and they tested his blood sugar level to find out if he was diabetic, it was out of range and she couldn't even tell me what it was until she sent it to the lab for processing. I brought him back the next day and the results were 615. He started on insulin that day (3 days ago now). He is on 1 unit of ProZinc twice a day.
He's a big cat (17 pounds, use to be 25) so I worry that feeding him half a can of wet food twice a day isn't enough? The vet gave me 2 cans of the MD food, but I'm about to give him the last of it with his shot. Before this he got a little bit of wet food once a day(maybe a quarter of the can, shared with other cats), and he was just eating Purina Cat Chow the rest of the time. Since the shots started I have been giving him half a can every 12 hours and a teaspoon of kibble between feedings as a snack :/ I don't want to keep giving him the MD stuff since 1 - It's too expensive on top of the insulin and needles, 2 - Everyone here says it's no good and 3 - It looks bad compared to the other foods on the Binky chart! The Friskies Tuna and Ocean Whitefish look like they would be better, since they all range in 50+ for protein and seem lowest in carbs. What do you think? Or should I keep with the kibble because I'm not testing him at home yet??? The vet wants me to stick to the 1 unit dose for three weeks and then I am dropping him off for the day with her so she can do a curve test on his blood and see how it's going.
squeem3
Member Since 2009
Elphaba said:
ProZinc is a good insulin choice :smile: 1 unit twice a day is a good low starting dose. Are you using U40 insulin syringes or the 12 unit ProZinc ones?
No, not enough. Unregulated diabetics are always hungry because their bodies can't efficently use the food. It's best to feed multiple small meals daily. You can start at one 5 oz can per day and adjust the amount as needed. Once your cat becaomes more regulated, his appetite will decreaese to a more manageable level.
Dry food is one reason why so many cats end up diabetic in the first place. It's so carb-dense which a cat's body can't handle. According to Binky's dry food chart, Purina Cat Chow has 40% carbs per cup :shock:
A diabetic cat, well really all cats, only need about 10% or less carbs in the diet.
Don't feel bad about causing your cat's diabetes. People here had no idea that dry food was so bad until their cat was diagnosed as diabetic and they learned about proper nutrition.
How many other cats do you have? Most people here with multiple cats that include a diabetic or two feed just one diet: canned food. All your cats can benefit from a canned food diet. Catinfo.org has more info.
Even a little dry food can cause blood glucose levels to become really high. Feed your diabetic a little canned food instead of a few pieces of a low carb healthy treat.
There are some low carb dry foods that could be fed to a diabetic but these can still keep blood glucose levels too high.
Seafood is low carb but should be limited to once in awhile meals. Some cats get addicted to eating seafood and will refuse to eat anything else. Certain types of fish may contain mercury. Stick with muscle meat (chicken, turkey, beef, etc) as the main food.
Have you seen the other food charts and lists?
Binky's canned food charts
Pet Food Nutritional Values list
Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values
Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast
The vet's curve results won't be too accurate. Many cats are so stressed out at the vet's office that their blood glucose levels are really high. It's best to test the cat's blood glucose levels at home. Not only is it more accurate, but you really don't want to blindly give insulin without knowing what the blood glucose level is. Your cat may become hypoglycemic in a few hours. There's a picture link at the top of the board for a free hometesting kit.
I think you could eliminate the kibble snacks without too much effect on blood glucose levels. Wait for more responses before you do that, though. Other members may have suggestions.
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Hi,
I have a snacky cat too.
I would suggest you grab a few cans of fancy feast ( classics are lower in carbs, avoid gravies which are higher) until you have time to read up and search the
janet and binky food list.
The turkey and giblets is 7 carbs, supreme supper is 7 carbs, and 9 lives flaked tuna in sauce is 2 carbs, (29 fat) and 9 lives ground turkey and giblets is 6
carbs.
These are some that are easy to find at any old grocery store while you research.
I would definitely feed more often expecially during the adjustment period of getting rid of all the dry kibble. There's a chart here somewhere about how many
calories a cat should have based on their weight.
You won't likely find any pure protein treats at a grocery store but look for PureBites freeze dried treats (shrimp, chicken, beef, I hear turkey is new)
http://www.healthypets.com/purebitesshrimp.html
Check out other foods from the binky list to get the free shipping.
Many specialty pet stores are getting in new products that are freeze dried treats.
I also give my cat a real shrimp sometimes after a shot. She loves shrimp and crab meat, not so much on fish.
And there is also cat-sip milk for cats. No carbs. Low fat lactase. No sugar.
These are often rewards or snacks because I know she's a little hungry.
I'm looking at getting the timer food dish because right now I'm waking up in the middle of the night to give her a freeze dried piece of chicken to
ease the edge. 8 hrs is a long time for a cat with barely any carbs......
This is all kind of like the south beach diet. They had you eating no carbs, and lots of high protein snacks. Eating those snacks keeps you from feeling hungry.
I have a snacky cat too.
I would suggest you grab a few cans of fancy feast ( classics are lower in carbs, avoid gravies which are higher) until you have time to read up and search the
janet and binky food list.
The turkey and giblets is 7 carbs, supreme supper is 7 carbs, and 9 lives flaked tuna in sauce is 2 carbs, (29 fat) and 9 lives ground turkey and giblets is 6
carbs.
These are some that are easy to find at any old grocery store while you research.
I would definitely feed more often expecially during the adjustment period of getting rid of all the dry kibble. There's a chart here somewhere about how many
calories a cat should have based on their weight.
You won't likely find any pure protein treats at a grocery store but look for PureBites freeze dried treats (shrimp, chicken, beef, I hear turkey is new)
http://www.healthypets.com/purebitesshrimp.html
Check out other foods from the binky list to get the free shipping.
Many specialty pet stores are getting in new products that are freeze dried treats.
I also give my cat a real shrimp sometimes after a shot. She loves shrimp and crab meat, not so much on fish.
And there is also cat-sip milk for cats. No carbs. Low fat lactase. No sugar.
These are often rewards or snacks because I know she's a little hungry.
I'm looking at getting the timer food dish because right now I'm waking up in the middle of the night to give her a freeze dried piece of chicken to
ease the edge. 8 hrs is a long time for a cat with barely any carbs......
This is all kind of like the south beach diet. They had you eating no carbs, and lots of high protein snacks. Eating those snacks keeps you from feeling hungry.
Julia & Bandit (GA)
Member Since 2009
As soon as you're you start home testing, it would be safe to remove the dry food completely on the 1u of Prozinc. But you need to test--about 1 in 4 cats no longer need insulin at all after the diet is changed. If you're not testing, you won't know if or how much the insulin needs to be lowered or even stopped. That can lead to a dangerous hypoglycemic incident if you then shoot his regular dose, even on an average dose of insulin like 1u.
Testing is not as hard as it sounds. Some cats struggle the first week or so, but all of them eventually tolerate and even like the testing if you give them low carb treats after every test. Plus, you will save a TON of money because you won't need to take him in to the vet for curves any more. AND the numbers you get will be more accurate and frequent, which will lead to safe and better treatment. It's a win/win situation.
Testing is not as hard as it sounds. Some cats struggle the first week or so, but all of them eventually tolerate and even like the testing if you give them low carb treats after every test. Plus, you will save a TON of money because you won't need to take him in to the vet for curves any more. AND the numbers you get will be more accurate and frequent, which will lead to safe and better treatment. It's a win/win situation.
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Here's what Dr. Pierson says about amount of food:
The average cat should eat 4-6 ounces of canned food per day split between 3-4 meals/day (or just free-fed if they are not overweight) but this is just a general guideline. When determining how much you should be feeding your cat once transitioned to canned food, keep it simple. Too fat? Feed less. Too thin? Feed more
You said he was a big cat. If 17 lbs was his normal weight and he's not fat then I would lean towards the 6 oz .
The diabetes is starving him and when the insulin starts helping him, his appetite will go back to normal.
do pay attention to what size can you are giving him. The little fancy feast cans are 3 oz.
Give him the treats every time you stick him ..... testing or a shot.
If he's still acting hungry, I , myself, would give him a high protein no carb treat.
If you are able to feed him 4 smaller meals a day , that will also help his appetite because it's keeping his blood sugar more even instead of it going
up and down because there is a large block of time in between.
The average cat should eat 4-6 ounces of canned food per day split between 3-4 meals/day (or just free-fed if they are not overweight) but this is just a general guideline. When determining how much you should be feeding your cat once transitioned to canned food, keep it simple. Too fat? Feed less. Too thin? Feed more
You said he was a big cat. If 17 lbs was his normal weight and he's not fat then I would lean towards the 6 oz .
The diabetes is starving him and when the insulin starts helping him, his appetite will go back to normal.
do pay attention to what size can you are giving him. The little fancy feast cans are 3 oz.
Give him the treats every time you stick him ..... testing or a shot.
If he's still acting hungry, I , myself, would give him a high protein no carb treat.
If you are able to feed him 4 smaller meals a day , that will also help his appetite because it's keeping his blood sugar more even instead of it going
up and down because there is a large block of time in between.
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