Question - 8/19 AMPS 501, +2 351, +6 421

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SHK

SHK

Member Since 2012
EQ is on Baytril (began 8/14). See his SS for more detail from the past couple weeks. I lowered the dose by one unit a couple weeks ago based on some advice and thinking I had missed his "sweet dose" (which I am now kicking myself for, since I didn't involve the vet on that decision and EQ's numbers have only gone up since then). It's so frustrating not to know what the best course of action is. Anyway, Live and Learn. Could Baytril be the explanation for such crazy numbers?

He is now back to 6u Lantus. Please don't admonish me for such a high dose. We've followed protocol. We're only using low carb wet food (have been for 3 years before the dx). EQ also has FIC. Just had a full blood panel last week that indicated possible pancreatitis, but no other problems. Waiting on full urine culture results. Currently waiting on the ABs to take effect and if they don't, the next step is a dental and test for IAA and Acromegaly - process of elimination.

My question is - can antibiotics RAISE bg levels while they're being taken?

Edited: subject line per suggestion.
 
Re: Please weigh in? 8/19 AMPS 501, +2 351, +6 421

I can't help with EQ but maybe if you edited your original post, in the subject line change it to Question 8/19 EQ AMPS 501 +2~351
and put the question mark icon.
Something to help stand out among the others.
It sounds like you'll truly get more answers when you have those tests.
 
Hi SHK, welcome to Lantus Land, the greatest place you never wanted to be. :lol: :lol: Wow, you are doing a great job with EQ! You have figured out a lot of stuff in a very short amount of time. Well done! I don't think the 6u is too much insulin. It looks like it's not enough but you need to get a dosing expert to weigh in on that. You are doing a great job with testing, too. I'm not sure about the ABs but someone will come along who will. Please ask lots of questions. Everyone here is very generous with the time and want EQ to be healthy.
Liz
 
I'm studying your spreadsheet, will be back.

Usually we see cats' numbers start to come down on antibiotics because the antibiotic starts to work on the infection that was (probably) causing higher numbers. Once in a while we have seen cats' get wonky numbers on some of the stronger antibiotics, though. It's possible, but I want to take a closer look at your spreadsheet to see what else I can see.
 
Is the Baytril a liquid or a pill? If it's a liquid, there's a good chance that it's in a sugar syrup base and it could contribute to high numbers. If it's a pill, it's unlikely that it's effecting EQ's numbers. However, if EQ has an infection and the Baytril isn't helping, the numbers could be elevated due to infection.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Is the Baytril a liquid or a pill? If it's a liquid, there's a good chance that it's in a sugar syrup base and it could contribute to high numbers. If it's a pill, it's unlikely that it's effecting EQ's numbers. However, if EQ has an infection and the Baytril isn't helping, the numbers could be elevated due to infection.
Click to expand...

It's a pill. But his numbers haven't budged much since the dx - mostly 300s. I think I did a very bad thing by lowering his dose a couple weeks ago. They started to shoot into the 400s more regularly after that, and have stayed up there since I raised the dose back to 6u and started the Baytril. I'm worried I caused this, but I'm also worried that the Baytril is making it worse.
 
Hi SHK,

I wouldn't worry about the AB making his bg higher since it's important that he have it right now. You said he may have pancreatitis and that would make his bg higher, as would dental problems. I would be more prone to blame it on his not feeling well and infection than on the antibiotics. Sometimes they also bounce from changing doses but it is temporary and will stop in a few days usually.

Welcome to LL.

Melanie & Racci
 
SHK said:
Sienne and Gabby said:
Is the Baytril a liquid or a pill? If it's a liquid, there's a good chance that it's in a sugar syrup base and it could contribute to high numbers. If it's a pill, it's unlikely that it's effecting EQ's numbers. However, if EQ has an infection and the Baytril isn't helping, the numbers could be elevated due to infection.
Click to expand...

It's a pill. But his numbers haven't budged much since the dx - mostly 300s. I think I did a very bad thing by lowering his dose a couple weeks ago. They started to shoot into the 400s more regularly after that, and have stayed up there since I raised the dose back to 6u and started the Baytril. I'm worried I caused this, but I'm also worried that the Baytril is making it worse.
Click to expand...

OK I'll weigh in on the issues.

First, I will leave the Baytril to the others to comment but can you post what was the infection that needed the Baytril? Some infections may not be cleared with one round of AB, and often it's an idea to retest and be sure the infection/illness has passed. Pancreatitis does not require any AB, but pain meds and fluids are needed, and anti nausea should be handled, maybe with just giving 1/4 tab of the 10mg Pepcid.

With the testing for acro and IAA, when you test is up to you, but in the meantime, you can't let any resistance get ahold on EQ, so don't hold your doses too long.

Hold the dose no longer than 6 cycles, then raise the dose. You have held that 6u for a bit too long, so you could up the dose to 6.5u. If EQ is staying very high as over the last 5 days, you can be more aggressive, holding a dose for 4 or 5 cycles, then raise on the 5th or 6th cycle. Continue with increases of .5u every 5th or 6th cycle until you get a few cycles with better numbers.

You have to stop running behind the bus, but rather you need to be like superman and get in front of the bus to stop the resistance.

You have done a decent job lately with testing, and the numbers have shown that EQ is not dropping low mid cycle and bouncing up to his ps. There is one daily test that would be very helpful, and that's the just before bed test.
 
I'd tag on to what Gayle (Blue) said above. Baytril may need a second course or EQ may need to be on an antibiotic for a longer period of time. Alternatively, it may not be the right antibiotic for the problem.

I second Gayle's point about not staying with a dose overly long if it's not bringing the numbers down. If you keep increasing with minimal effect, it may be worth testing for a high dose condition so you'll have a clearer idea of what's going on.
 
Thanks very much for your answers! Numbers are still crummy but he is feeling a tiny bit better today; I can tell because he is trying to chew on my postage stamps. :razz:

Sienne and Gabby said:
If you keep increasing with minimal effect, it may be worth testing for a high dose condition so you'll have a clearer idea of what's going on.
Click to expand...
In my post, I did mention that is our next step after the antibiotics and dental. Thank you for the link. :smile:
 
SHK said:
Thanks very much for your answers! Numbers are still crummy but he is feeling a tiny bit better today; I can tell because he is trying to chew on my postage stamps. :razz:

Sienne and Gabby said:
If you keep increasing with minimal effect, it may be worth testing for a high dose condition so you'll have a clearer idea of what's going on.
Click to expand...
In my post, I did mention that is our next step after the antibiotics and dental. Thank you for the link. :smile:
Click to expand...

One suggestion I do have is that you mention to your vet about the possibility of acromegaly when arranging for the dental as you want to have precautions taken... it is safer to act as if EQ does have the condition and request for a kitten sided tubing be used in case there is any soft tissue growth, and also consider that the heart be watched closely as acros have heart issues often. Without having had Xrays or u/s done, you do not know the condition of internal organs, so better safe than sorry.

You can keep raising the dose in the meantime.
 
You are most welcome.

There have been times when it was not feasible, the cost etc, to test for high dose, but it was obvious the results would be positive... undiagnosed would be a way of putting it.

I did take my cat for a dental before her diagnose of acro, and her BG did drop to 2.5u or so from 14u, but it's a good thing I had her tested because she was acro. I had the vet take precautions as if she were acro, just in case she was, and in case she had any of the possible health issues that may come along with acro.
 
Just an update...

We are still on the antibiotics, and it seemed they weren't doing a darn thing to make EQ feel better and his numbers weren't coming down. However, I upped his dose to 6.5u on 8/21, and he had three tests in the 300 range! We still have a couple days left on the ABs. I'm crossing my fingers for no more 400s, but...

There was a mixup and the lab didn't do the urine culture like they were supposed to and have already disposed of the sample, which means we have to go back to the vet for another sterile sample. UGH! I understand that mistakes happen, but when even the briefest of jaunts outside of the house set EQ back days in terms of his stress level and BG numbers, I can't help but be disappointed in the vet for not checking on this earlier, especially when I called three times about the results the day before the sample would have been thrown out. Longest sentence ever! :oops:

Anyhoo, I am turning this into a positive, and taking the opportunity to get the IAA and Acromegaly tests done at the same time. I see no need to wait until antibiotics are finished to bring him back a third time and stress him out further. I emailed the vet both forms in pdf form and the website links, and explained the request pretty clearly. I will be speaking with him today to ensure he can do this all before I bring EQ in.

On another bright note - I was also worried about civvie kitty Dex who saw the vet yesterday (different vet, more like a GP than a specialist). She said he was the most gorgeous cat she's ever seen (it's true; he IS a very fancy-looking longhaired black cat). She might say that about every cat, but I was bursting with pride. LOL. Thankfully he's in good health and only needs a dental; did bloodwork yesterday just to make sure all is well before the procedure. I won't go into details about his anal glands (Dear lord, I had no idea!!). Whew!

Thanks again for your support!
 
You might want to see about bringing EQ in early in the week. I think the lab at MSU runs the tests on Wednesdays. Also, make sure the vet understands exactly where to FedEx the samples to. You want the blood sent directly to the lab. Otherewise, things sit on a loading dock.
 
Thanks Sienne, I appreciate that information - very good to know. I talked with the vet today and we decided to wait a bit since testing the urine now would most likely result in skewed results because EQ has been on Baytril for 9 days. We're going back two weeks from now and will time it so that the Michigan lab gets the freshest blood samples possible. My vet has an account with that particular lab, so they are familiar with the storage and shipping requirements, thank goodness. The vet also suggested getting a Cushing's test as well, so we'll just get it all done in one visit when we re-do the urinalysis.
 
SHK said:
Thanks Sienne, I appreciate that information - very good to know. I talked with the vet today and we decided to wait a bit since testing the urine now would most likely result in skewed results because EQ has been on Baytril for 9 days. We're going back two weeks from now and will time it so that the Michigan lab gets the freshest blood samples possible. My vet has an account with that particular lab, so they are familiar with the storage and shipping requirements, thank goodness. The vet also suggested getting a Cushing's test as well, so we'll just get it all done in one visit when we re-do the urinalysis.
Click to expand...

No need to waste your money on Cushings tests if you are not seeing any signs of the condition such as thin skin / tearing skin, plus the tests results are not firm conclusive. Starting with the IGF-1 test for acromegaly as well as the IAA test are good enough.
I believe that one of the tests is best after animal has fasted, so no food the night before testing.... ask for an early morning blood draw so that EQ does not go crazy with no food. I took food with me so I could feed Shadoe and Oliver after their blood draws.
 
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