Query re bg

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Ann & Liz

Ann & Liz

Member Since 2016
Hi, We are slightly confused and hope someone can explain. Lila has not eaten since her breakfast at 9am this am ( due to be fed again soon). Her bg readings have increased from 18.8 at 3pm to 34.8 at 6pm. We are just a bit confused as to how this happens without food. Her 1 u Caninsulin was at 7am so we know that would be out of her system but surprised bg can go up that high with no food intake yet?
 
What was Lila's pre-shot reading before the 7am shot? Did you get any tests between +3 and +5 hours after the 7am shot? That is when the lowest reading is likely to occur and if Lila went lower than she is used to or too low, her liver may have panicked and released glucagon to up her BG levels to what she perceives to be more normal. It could be a bounce or depending on how low she went around her nadir (lowest point in 12 hour cycle), it could mean a dose decrease is in order.

Sorry if this info is on the spreadsheet but unfortunately, I can't see it. I get a message telling me "unable to open file" and the address may be wrong which may mean the share settings need tweeking. Check to see if the share is set to allow viewing by anyone with the link as that may be the problem.
 
Hi Ann
I can't seem to open your spreadsheet to get an idea of what range Lila's BGs have been in - error message comes up - and I haven't been here much recently to know the overall picture, so hard to give a guess as to what may be going on.

This morning's 1u is almost certainly out of Lila's system now, yes. That is a huge rise in three hours - I take it you don't normally see a rise like that? Is that an unusually high number for Lila? It would be high for any cat but at the start of treatment BGs are sometimes in the 30s until the insulin dose is adjusted over time to get numbers down.

I'd test again to make sure that 34.8 isn't a "rogue" number from a "bad" strip, which is a possibility. Or, if Lila's numbers do jump about erratically, there may be other causes.

Could you check to see if your spreadsheet is openable on your computer in case there's a problem? And also test again and post the number so we can see if your first reading was accurate?

Sorry, that's all I can suggest at the moment.

Diana
 
Blood glucose comes from two sources; from recently digested food and from glycogen stores (located primarily in the liver). Between meals glycogen in the liver is broken down into glucose and released into the bloodstream so that it can provide energy to support normal metabolic functions (glycogenolysis). The liver can also metabolize other macronutrients to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis) - hence the reason why cats don't actually need carby food.

Here's a document describing how glucose regulation works - and stops working (written in plain english about human diabetes but principles are the same for cats - one of the most helpful articles I've ever come across).

Blood Glucose Regulation and Diabetes - 101


Mogs
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Diana&Tom said:
I can't seem to open your spreadsheet to get an idea of what range Lila's BGs have been in - error message comes up - and I haven't been here much recently to know the overall picture, so hard to give a guess as to what may be going on.
Click to expand...

Here's a working link, Diana:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4hjaI60Ktdfn4GwYnJ_LMvvaNPIRuwGfi3a09_IVR0/pubhtml


@Ann & Liz

There's an error in your spreadsheet link code. If you go to your signature page you'll see the link ending in "pubhtml Lila's spreadsheet". You need to delete the text I've highlighted here in blue then save the changes. That should fix the link. If you get stuck with the techie bit give a shout.


Mogs
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Ann & Liz said:
Her 1 u Caninsulin was at 7am so we know that would be out of her system but surprised bg can go up that high with no food intake yet?
Click to expand...
What you're seeing in the BG readings today - a sort of cup-shaped curve - is very typical of the action of Caninsulin in cats. (It's more suited to dogs because they metabolise insulin slower than cats do.) Some cats might get a bit of longevity out of a Caninsulin dose but most don't.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Blood glucose comes from two sources; from recently digested food and from glycogen stores (located primarily in the liver). Between meals glycogen in the liver is broken down into glucose and released into he bloodstream so that it can provide energy to support normal metabolic functions (glycogenolysis). The liver can also metabolize other macronutrients to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis) - hence the reason why cats don't actually need carby food.

Here's a document describing how glucose regulation works - and stops working (written in plain english about human diabetes but principles are the same for cats - one of the most helpful articles I've ever come across).

Blood Glucose Regulation and Diabetes - 101


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Thank you - think I have sorted spreadsheet. (Spreadsheets are not my speciality!) Also this is the only forum we have been on & don't do fb so bear with us!
 
Thanks for the ss link, Mogs.

Ann, as Mogs says, today's curve is what you'd expect to see on this insulin. The insulin gets used up fast and BGs rise again, often quite steeply and especially if pre-shots are particularly high. Yesterday's curve was rather flatter, ie not such a curved shape (sorry, very basic terms here, not sure how much you've been reading up).

From what we can see on your ss, it's early days to see much of a pattern here on this - or any - dose. It can take several cycles after insulin is first administered to see how a given dose might be expected to work on an ongoing basis. Plus, BGs can vary unexpectedly during a cycle in any cat for various reasons and we can't always pinpoint why.

So you're right to be vigilant and ask questions, but there may be no "right" answers that we can give you just yet. Do keep your ss updated so we can keep an eye on how things are going and be better equipped to answer questions - which you will have. Treating FD isn't always as straightforward as we'd all like but there are always people here to offer support.

Keep going and keep smiling!

Diana
 
Ann & Liz said:
Thank you - think I have sorted spreadsheet. (Spreadsheets are not my speciality!) Also this is the only forum we have been on & don't do fb so bear with us!
Click to expand...
You're doing great with the forum posts. Putting the link into the SS can be tricky. It's still not working; I think you'd need to use the BB editor to remove the extraneous text. I'm not sure whether the board admin staff might be able to edit the sig for you. If you post on the Tech Support board someone may be able to help you sort it out. Here's a link to the TS board:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/suggestions-tech-support-testing-area.6/

I don't do FB either.


Mogs
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She has not dropped so far today on the 1 unit dose which is good and is clearing the bounce so the next step will be dose tweaking to gradually bring down the pre shot numbers, it is early days so don't worry too much about the numbers, she dropped by 11 points today which is much better than a 20 point drop. Are you checking Lila's urine for ketones, it is important to do this periodically and while she is in those high numbers doubly so. Are you able to monitor tomorrow?
 
Alexi said:
She has not dropped so far today on the 1 unit dose which is good and is clearing the bounce so the next step will be dose tweaking to gradually bring down the pre shot numbers, it is early days so don't worry too much about the numbers, she dropped by 11 points today which is much better than a 20 point drop. Are you checking Lila's urine for ketones, it is important to do this periodically and while she is in those high numbers doubly so. Are you able to monitor tomorrow?
Click to expand...
We don't test for ketones at home, vet didn't seem keen on us doing that particularly. But are realising that we need to check this out. We have a vet appt on Thurs with another vet in the practice, to get a second opinion( the one we spoke to when Lila had low readings on Sunday.)
 
Keto-diastix are just under £10 a pack from amazon and last a long time. I sneak up behind with a spoon, catch the urine, sit the spoon in the sink then dip and time - 15 seconds for the ketone result. Other techniques are cling film in the tray or aquarium gravel. If timing is an issue lock cat in room with tray - as Lila is still unregulated you shouldn't need to wait long for a sample!
 
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