ProZinc specific syringes

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Sam-cat

Sam-cat

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I'm really looking for a wee bit of advice/opinion in relation to vet advice.

Sam has been doing really well generally but has had some recent high BG results. I haven't updated my spreadsheet but am trying to atm - hoping to at the weekend when my brain can figure it out how to add 2018 on to Sam's existing spread sheet...

Anyway spoke to the vet about why things might have not been so good and he found out I am using BD syringes instead of vet ones. Long lecture about how he could not countenance this and that I should never be altering the dose by less than 0.5units as such a small variation would make no difference. I have all Sam's BG testing since he started on insulin a year ago and this strongly proves that for him small variations make a big difference - once I have figured out spreadsheet I will be sharing that with him. He gave me vet syringes but is ordering me ProZinc specific syringes as these (he says) are much more effective at measuring doses. Interestingly ProZinc syringes apparently are marked in 0.3 so smaller units than 0.5.

The underlying message from him was (I think) that if i don't use ProZinc syringes he won't treat him. I can change vets but is he right that ProZinc syringes are better than any other syringe?
 
U-40 syringes are normally no smaller than 1/2 unit... at least I have never seen/heard of any smaller increment.
 
The syringes hold 0.3ml (i.e. 3/10 cc) but they still measure units the same - this is opposed to the bigger ones that hold 0.5ml or 1ml and are much harder to measure small doses. This number refers to the total capacity of the syringe, not the unit dosing - 1u is still 1u. If I recall correctly, the Prozinc specific syringes only come in 1 unit measurements instead of 1/2 unit... so he's wanting you to pay extra to make small dosing changes harder on yourself. There is no valid reason why you should need Prozinc specific syringes vs any other syringe of the same size. If you are using u100 currently, as long as you are using the conversion chart, you are fine. I wonder if he makes a commission off of selling branded products......

These are the ones I use: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/18553/ulticare-u40-pet-29g-3-10cc-1-2in-half-unit
 
Yep, they come in a kit and everything.. and cost about three times what the ones I linked to cost. My vet convinced me to get them the first time around too...
 
I disagree with just about everything your vet said! I started out using U-40 syringes with Cleo. After about a week on insulin, the vet recommended that I increase her dose from 1 unit to 1.5. She became hypoglycemic and had to be hospitalized. It was horrible. On the advice of the smart people here, I bought U-100 syringes and posted a copy of the conversion chart on my refrigerator. I like those a lot better because I can change dosages by 0.2 units. Those tiny changes make a big difference for Cleo. Increasing or decreasing by 0.5 units is just too much for her. I don't buy syringes from my vet. I buy them online, but you can get that at Walmart or another store.
 
Thanks guys - you have all reinforced my thoughts. I have been using U100 and started with these as I could change the dose in smaller steps. I use a conversion chart and have had no problems with that side of things. Vet thinks I chose them purely based on cost. TBH cost is a factor but if I genuinely could understand any reason why I should use u40 syringes I would find the money. He has been well regulated until recently using u100 syringes and converting the dose. We are having a blip and I accept that the dose needs to be increased (And I am sometimes too wary to do this as I worry about him going too low and can't test nadir when I'm at work), but I don't accept that any part of the problem is his syringes

And beyond him wanting me to use u40 s
Syringes (the ones that they gave me when they first put him on prozinc) they now want me to get ProZinc specialist ones. I can't see how these will measure his dose more accurately (surely going to be less as the increments are bigger -0.3 as opposed to.0.2). I feel that I am being coerced into spending more money on a vet approved product with no benefit to Sam. From vet perspective we would be on prescription food, not home testing and he would be going to them for curves. I love sam to bits and I do the very, very most I can but i am not in a well paid job and there is a limit to whay i can afford. To pay a lot more for syringes that would give him no benefit i would have an issue with.

And if I had followed his advice I would still have shot when he was at BG 1.6 and wouldn't be home testing so would never have known he was so very low. Which of course if I followed his advice might well have killed him.

Ultimately I need to change vets. There are two surgeries very nearby and he is becoming stressed by the travel to the one he is registered to.atm. I dont expect that the new vet will have much diabetic cat experience but if they back off and leave me to sort his diabetes that would be something.

I don't think in my area I will get anybody who is any one very experienced in treating diabetic cats. But if they are more realistic that with me funding his treatment myself there is going to be a level I just can't afford.

Added to that i have moved house and current vets is a 45 minute car journey away and he is getting increasingly stresses by.thw journey. There are two surgeries within 3 miles so would be much less stressful for.him
 
There's no valid reason to not use U100 syringes along with the conversion chart. By ProZinc branded syringes I think you mean the special plastic combo syringe dispenser/sharps container that is sometimes sold along with the insulin. I saw one of these "kits" at my vet clinic. Here's a photo:
upload_2018-7-26_19-35-7.png


There's absolutely nothing special about these syringes. They're typical U40 syringes that can also be used with Vetsulin (Caninsulin).
 
Sam-cat said:
We are having a blip and I accept that the dose needs to be increased (And I am sometimes too wary to do this as I worry about him going too low and can't test nadir when I'm at work), but I don't accept that any part of the problem is his syringes
Click to expand...

I'm a lot more comfortable adjusting Cleo's dose with a U-100 syringe than a U-40. I just did that last weekend. (I always make adjustments on weekends, so I can be with her all day.) We went from 1.4 to 1.6 units. I don't know how I would even be able to measure that with a U-40 syringe. That tiny adjustment was exactly what she needed though.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
There's no valid reason to not use U100 syringes along with the conversion chart. By ProZinc branded syringes I think you mean the special plastic combo syringe dispenser/sharps container that is sometimes sold along with the insulin. I saw one of these "kits" at my vet clinic. Here's a photo:
View attachment 37790

There's absolutely nothing special about these syringes. They're typical U40 syringes that can also be used with Vetsulin (Caninsulin).
Click to expand...

I suspect that the real difference will be in price. I feel that the vet was at best patronising and at worst rude. He hasn't given me any reason why a ProZinc branded syringe is going to be more accurate. I have been using a conversion chart with u100 syringes since August last year. He has been mainly stable over that time and I am 100% confident in myself that there is no issue with using them.

The advantage has been able to give him smaller increases and decreases which has worked for him. And so makes me disagree too with vet advice as to never making a change of less than 0.5. Strongly...

In the short term I think that i am being blackmailed into using their syringes. In the less short time I will change vet so I suppose it will depend on somebody else's attitude.
 
alexthecat said:
I'm a lot more comfortable adjusting Cleo's dose with a U-100 syringe than a U-40. I just did that last weekend. (I always make adjustments on weekends, so I can be with her all day.) We went from 1.4 to 1.6 units. I don't know how I would even be able to measure that with a U-40 syringe. That tiny adjustment was exactly what she needed though.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Sam has reacted well to small changes in dose. Alongside that I feel reassured to do that when I have to leave him and work. If he needs to be increased by 0.5 that's one thing but I don't see any reason why this could not be done in two smaller increases than one large one.

Anyway poorly cat this morning. Will have to see the vet today as there is something else going on. Kind of hoping it will be a different one...
 
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