Prozinc like Vetsulin?

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SayHiToMichelle

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Hey guys, sorry if this isn't the correct place to post this but I was considering switching my cat Tabby from Vetsulin (we are on the last bit of our last bottle) over to Lantus, however I have been researching Prozinc and it seems like it has a more similar action to the Vetsulin. Prior to getting him on Vetsulin Tabby had two D.K.A. episodes and a brutal case of pancreatitis. He has high blood pressure now but is otherwise doing great. I know people swear by Lantus but I am really scared to switch him to something so extremely different (espec with DKA history) if I could put him on Prozinc which would act in a way his body already responds to.

So...anyone switched from Vetsulin/Caninsulin to Prozinc with good results and little stress? Anyone have any input as to the choice of Prozinc VS Lantus?

BTW: Hometest and ketone testing are not a problem. I just would like this to go as smooth as possible.
 
I have not used vetsulin but I have tried going from ProZinc to Lantus. (new vet wanted me to try) She only lasted 10 days then she crashed and went into DKA .... My cat Payne has gone into DKA four times and also has pancreatitis and is a very complex cat.

I love ProZinc it is a very forgiving insulin and because Payne likes to spike ketones, I also use R insulin to knock them down, it is harder to do with Lantus. I have also figured out that the CP has been causing her ketones to soar, and her BG#'s to rise. I have found that if I raise her pzi and add SQ fluids, I can turn it around and not go into DKA.

How much insulin are you giving Tabby a day? I think the switch would go easier to pzi, then when his medical problems stabilize, if you want to try one of the L's you could. When was Tabby Dx? what have his BG#'s been on vetsulin?

Nancy and Payne
 
Nancy has great experience with switching and complicated cats (Sorry, Payne) which I do not have.

My experience is trying to help posters here on this forum with advice. I had a cat on PZI; I do not currently have a cat on insulin.

We have had wildly varying experience with ProZinc. It used to be called PZI and with the name and formula change, it seems to be quite a different insulin than the PZI. Some people have great success and go off insulin in only a few months (See the Remission thread at the top of the page). Others are able to give very small doses (See Barbara and Thumper's thread) and some are frustrated with numbers that seem to follow very little pattern. (See Donnahc's thread)

Lantus and Levemir seem to be more consistent insulins in terms of response. They do not have the adaptability of ProZinc. ProZinc does not have a shed like they do; when the ProZinc is gone, it is out of the body and you may be able to shoot again, off schedule if necessary. With the L insulins, you do need to have a pretty firm 12/12 schedule or you throw off the shed. You cannot shoot early and shooting late throws things off.

We have had some ProZinc users switch to Lantus/Levemire. Some do well. Some who had unpredictable numbers on PZI, still are having unpredictable numbers on the L insulins.

It is that "Every Cat is Different" thing. Hard to predict who will do well on which insulin. I would read the stickies on all the insulins and try to figure out which will work best for your life and your cat.
 
Thanks Sue and Nancy,

Tabby has been dx since 2008. We first tried him with Humlin H (I think that's what it was, it has since been retired from the market) and when that didn't work we tried N. Then he developed D.K.A and went to the ER vet for a week long stay. They got him stable on Vetsulin but he was still having such problems with his pancreas and liver that it wasn't properly and then went DKA again! I thought he was gonna die. He was down to 7 lbs from 14 and looked 'yellow'. After almost two weeks at ER vet (they put feeding tube in worked aggressively on pancreatitis and liver) the diabetes started to stabilize. It took about a year for him to get back to any semblance of 'normal' but he is now well regulated on 5 unit of Vetsulin bid. His ps is around 250 and his nadir is about 75. Prior to being regulated his numbers would get up in the 500's + . Due to my schedule I definitely need a more 'forgiving' insulin and I am not so comfortable with the 'shed' idea, especially since he is so prone to ketones.
 
We switched from Vetsulin to PZI Vet (now discontinued) which in theory ProZinc is supposed to be similar too. From what I can tell they are a lot alike, but we have seen enough kitties here struggling with ProZinc that I have some reservations.

Some of the differences I noticed with PZI Vet compared to Vetsulin for my cat:

- PZI seemed to last in his system quite a bit longer, so he got good duration on 12/12 shooting, which we never got on Vetsulin.

- His nadir was around +6.5 on PZI, vs. around +4 or +4.5 (I forget) on Vetsulin.

- With PZI, you can't set your clock by the drop the way you can with Vetsulin. When I shot Vetsulin I KNEW he would hit a nadir, and could predict it fairly well both in timing and in the numbers. PZI is much vaguer, for lack of a better word. Getting a nadir on a given day is sort of in the "maybe, maybe not" category, and although over time you can get so you can predict the nadirs to a good extent, it's not like Vetsulin where you can adjust the dose a little bit and predict X amount of change in the nadir accordingly. PZI seems to have, for many cats, sort of a "sweet spot" - doses under that you can get almost no response, and doses over that you get a mondo-response. I found it a real adjustment at first to get used to it being more gentle, or whatever it is, but once I got used to it I found the results on PZI much better overall than what we got on Vetsulin.

Caveats are I only switched to LC food on PZI, so it's a bit apples & oranges comparison. I also have not used Lantus at all. If he is doing well on Vetsulin I would guess he would do well on PZI - few cats seem to do all that well on Vetsulin, so it may be that he gets good duration overall, and that is one factor that often makes the difference in whether a cat will do well on PZI or not.

5 units is quite a bit of insulin though. Is he on a higher carb food? I'm impressed with 250 PSs, that is awesome! Amazed though that 5u is giving him a nice nadir, wow. Bix was on a top dose of 4.5 with Vetsulin (he was on dry food at the time, so needed a lot more insulin than after I switched foods), and would go from like 400-something to 50 on that dose.
 
Hi Joanna,

I am really confused why so many people have had a hard time with Vetsulin! I was very distraught when I heard it was being pulled since Tabby has done so incredibly well on it. I am hoping that the switch the Prozinc will go a little smoother than a switch to something like Lantus would. At least I will know what to expect more from a PZI type insulin. Tabby is getting grain free canned Wellness and a little bit of Blue Buffalo grain free dry on the side. I have no intention of switching his food any time soon, especially because it effects numbers so much.

I had my vet order the Prozinc today and will make the switch early next week. Does anyone have any good resource sites on Prozinc and what to expect? Also, the bottle costs $114 incl shipping through my vet (which seems insane), is that a normal price?
 
The PZI sticky on this page, at the top in the topics, contains very insightful PZI information.

FYI-- Prozinc is $113.00 a vial at my vet.
 
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