ProZinc kitty with early nadir?

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Simon'sMommy

Simon'sMommy

Member Since 2013
I posted this in PZI too but wanted a few more eyes to see this.

My ProZinc kitty seems to have his Nadir at the 4-5 hour mark. He heads straight up after that and ends up with high PMPS numbers. Does this mean he needs MORE insulin? This morning, his AMPS was at 199 so I lowered his dose (yesterday I did that too cause he was at 205 for his AMPS reading) to 2 Units from his 2.25.

I am trying to get him to have a similar AMPS and PMPS number as this is what I was told is the best way for it to be, but my AMPS and my PMPS numbers are far apart big time (from 200 am to 400 pm yesterday!) and I am expecting this to be the case again today although I hope I am pleasantly surprised. He is not eating anymore than usual and he has only had protein snacks (Purebites) when I test him. Can someone tell me what I can do to help his insulin last longer? confused_cat
 
ProZinc may be dosed on a sliding scale. As you acquire data, you will be able to determine what starting glucose takes what doseage.

Many cats go lower overnight, so giving a lower dose at night and/or slightly higher dose in the morning may be needed.
 
so some more data to get to determine what a good sliding scale for Simon would be trying to determine duration.

Over the last two days, it certainly looks like the nadir is somewhere around +4 to +5.

Some numbers later in the cycle would be helpful. How about some tests between +9 and +11, to see when he starts shooting up into those higher numbers, over 300?

If you are up at least an hour before the AMPS, one thing you can do is take a test at +11 (time elapsed from the PMPS). That would give you a better idea if the AMPS is a rising or falling number. I suggest this because you have had two low pre-shots tests the last two days and have needed to stall (wait 30 minutes without food, retest) the shot.
 
I did a +9 five times since I began testing and he was always on the way up. As for +11, my AMPS is closer to +11 than it is +12 because I always test, feed and then shoot except for the last couple of days. So, he is already pretty high by +11 if not totally depleted except for the last 2 days. I am sure that his nadir is early though.

I guess I am dosing him according to what I see in the morning as of yesterday. Last night, I gave him 2.25 due to the high PMPS number and then I tested him before I went to bed and it was down to 99 from over 400 and that was at +5. So, he definitely gets the most out of the insulin within the first 4-5 hours and then bangs right up. Haven't had too many lower PMPS's though. Only ONE in yellow territory and the rest pink and red :sad:

Sure am at a loss as to what dose will work best for him but we are still really new at this and his ketones have been negative although he has had a trace of sugar in his urine, even with lower numbers (did it yesterday right after his +5 and the ketones were neg but the urine showed trace sugar at not even the + mark, but the first little green square) and so am worried about that a little. confused_cat confused_cat
 
He's on his way back up, fast.

One change you could make is to take all food away after about +7 or +8. Feeding later in the cycle, after there is not enough insulin to help process the food will make the numbers jump higher more quickly.

my AMPS is closer to +11 than it is +12
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Would you just make a note of this on your SS over in the comments column please?

No worries, about not understanding that I wanted another test today if possible. You have all of your other life and work responsibilities and need to tell us if you can not do something we have requested. Believe me, we understand that people have full busy lives.
 
No worries on asking me to do ANYTHING that might help my sweetie pie. I love this cat with all of my heart and if I can help him by poking him more often (even if he gives me the evil eye when I head towards him..lol) then I am there!

I want to get this right and work our way to OTJ if at all possible. His obesity and the dry food were likely contributing to this diabetes (of course can't be sure of that) and we are working on those things so hoping we can get him one of those awesome video parties that you guys do \M/

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of your help. Many of you don't even have your sugar kitties anymore and yet here you are, helping all of us newbies that are scared to death! I truly appreciate every bit of your selfless help. Thank you!
 
I love this cat with all of my heart and if I can help him by poking him more often (even if he gives me the evil eye when I head towards him..lol) then I am there!
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Have you been giving him a reward after each poke? A freeze dried pure meat treat, tiny piece of plain cooked chicken? Brushing him if he likes that? Or playing with him to burn off some of his energy. Something he really likes.

I'll try to remember that about your willingness to do more tests here and there. More times than not, it's dragging out all your detective skills to try to figure out what is going on. Same food, amount of play, insulin, everything the same and the numbers can be so different from one day to the next.

All we can do is keep trying every day to make Simon feel better. And retrain his liver to stop panicking when you get low numbers and giving the pancreas time to heal.

Love, lots of love is my prescription for Simon tonight. Maybe some extra snuggles if he likes that kind of thing?
 
The freeze dried Pure Bites are the only reason he is still speaking to me..LOL...he loves snuggling and he is still very sweet and willingly comes to me, even if I have been bleeding him dry :o

He does get a treat after every single poke and it is always a Pure Bite or he likes the Stella and Chewy dinners so I give him a chunk of that dry to change things up. Also he gets chicken when I have that too so I try to make this as easy on him as I can. During the week when I am working, we poke him a lot less. My hubby gives him a +6 test cause he is home at that time, but other than that, he gets his AM and PM pre shot and one more before I go to bed so I know he is safe (which is usually at +4.5 or +5)

He is such a sweetie and loves cuddling and we do a lot of it!
 
Simon'sMommy said:
The freeze dried Pure Bites are the only reason he is still speaking to me..LOL...he loves snuggling and he is still very sweet and willingly comes to me, even if I have been bleeding him dry :o

He does get a treat after every single poke and it is always a Pure Bite or he likes the Stella and Chewy dinners so I give him a chunk of that dry to change things up. Also he gets chicken when I have that too so I try to make this as easy on him as I can. During the week when I am working, we poke him a lot less. My hubby gives him a +6 test cause he is home at that time, but other than that, he gets his AM and PM pre shot and one more before I go to bed so I know he is safe (which is usually at +4.5 or +5)

He is such a sweetie and loves cuddling and we do a lot of it!
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I know it drives us crazy, but this journey we are on takes time. My Rumpelteazer was diagnosed at the end of February 2013...it is now the beginning of June....if you look at her ss (don't panic about how different RumpelT's dose is compared to Simon's...we started out with a lower one...just want you to get a basic idea) you will see that things DO get better. I thought I was going to lose my mind at the beginning, but she is doing better on less ProZinc now . Still has her goofy-number days sometimes. :roll: :roll:

You are doing a great job and everyone here is totally awesome. I don't know what I would have ever done without my FDMB family to help me along. :-D

BTW....Rumpelteazer gets PureBites after every test also. :smile:
 
With such an early nadir on Prozinc, would it be a thought to consider a longer acting insulin? Both Lantus and Levemir are probably better options for longer duration. There is also the possibility of doing shots 3x a day, but many people find this to be a difficult schedule.
 
Hi, I'm a Newbie, too, dx'd the week after you, so I don't have much advice to offer, except support!

It sounds like you are doing an amazing job with his diet & testing - congratulations! I know it drives us crazy that this isn't a black & white disease - there is a "dance" as other members said, You are being patient, too which is great.

Also, I was advised by a member to zoom out so you can't see the numbers - just look at the colors - you can see patterns that way, too after time.

It was helpful for me - made me realize I was going a tad too fast - maybe it will be helpful for you & add another piece to the puzzle.
 
Are you meal feeding or fre-feeding? Slowing down food consumption after those first 4-5 hours may help as the glucose is increasing then.

Some folks feeze part of the meal so it must be nibbled slowly as it thaws. Another trick to slow down consumption (not reduce consumption) is to smear the food across the plate so its more work to get.

Active play in the second half of the cycle might help - maybe 15-20 minutes of running, jumping and pouncing, if there are no contra-indications. If arthritis, make it slower and on a flat surface (no jumps!)
 
Joyce has been taught about those patience pants. I've loaned her several pair in various stunning colors. ;-) She is seeing some better numbers now over time. I think she is even getting a bit longer duration now with Simon.

This is her latest post over in the ISG PZI forum. 6/16 Simon
 
I am indeed wearing those lovely blue patience pants that you gave me Deb :lol:

Although I still have my moments when I see those pink pre shots, I know they are bounces from all of the lovely blues and greens Simon has been having all day lately (thank you Carl for all of your calming and rational advice) so now I know. I just need to wait this out. He is doing great! He has NEVER (knock on wood) seen a number over the 400's and those were only a few times (twice at the vet!) so we are doing great in terms of his BG.

He has all of the 5 P's going on daily and seems to be in good spirits. I watch his poor back legs like a hawk for changes and there have been none. His fur has NEVER looked better in the 3 years he has been with us since switching to all wet food.

He is patient and wonderful with testing and he even asks ME to do it these days when he knows he wants a treat (all freeze dried chicken only these days)

So, all in all, we have come a very long way in a very short time thanks to this wonderful community. Thank you from the bottom of our paws ;-)
 
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