Prozinc Dosing Question

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Mary O

Mary O

Member Since 2016
I gave my newly diagnosed kitty 1 unit of Prozinc last night at 9 p.m. She is acting very hungry this morning and I have not tested her yet. Can I test her, feed her and then give insulin a little later if the testing number warrants it? Also, I want to give her insulin earlier in the morning because I leave for work during the week around 8, but I know with Prozinc she is supposed to get on a 12 hour cycle.
 
Because ProZinc is NOT a depot insulin like Lantus and Levemir, a strict 12/12 hour dosing is not that important. Some leeway is acceptable.
Yes, you can wait if you have an abnormally low preshot BG and give shot later. You just have to be more careful at nxt dosing time.

Yu spreadsheet listed that you gave 0.05 units. Is that really true since that is really impossible to measure.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Because ProZinc is NOT a depot insulin like Lantus and Levemir, a strict 12/12 hour dosing is not that important. Some leeway is acceptable.
Yes, you can wait if you have an abnormally low preshot BG and give shot later. You just have to be more careful at nxt dosing time.

Yu spreadsheet listed that you gave 0.05 units. Is that really true since that is really impossible to measure.
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Sorry, no it should be 1/2 unit. I am going to test now and tell you what her number is and then hopefully you can please advise.
 
Sharon14 said:
You said you want to change the shot time to 8, how long from now is that? What time zone are you in? Remember no shot if under 200, and no food for 2 hours before shot. @Sue and Oliver (GA) and @Rachel
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I am in EST. Right now it is 6:51 am. I just realized I only have 3 AlphaTrak strips left and you have to buy them online. I think I am going to run out to Walmart and get a human meter. Do you have a recommendation as to which kind?
 
Most of the people here get the Relion Confirm or Micro because they take the smallest amount of blood. If she's easy to test, consider the Prime which needs a little more blood but has much cheaper strips.
 
Link to OPs thread with further information http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/sorry-to-be-a-pain-vet-not-helping.161400/

Short version. Kitty newly diagnosed, vet advised additional shots outside of normal 12 hourly, numbers look strange as a result. Need Prozinc users to help OP get back on track and into a settled regime. ETA cat has had ketones.

OP I'm struggling to understand your spreadsheet, can you update it? If you are switching to a human meter then may be worth starting afresh - it is really important when you post the numbers now to clarify which meter you are using as the human and pet meters read slightly differently.
 
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Alexi said:
Link to OPs thread with further information http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/sorry-to-be-a-pain-vet-not-helping.161400/

Short version. Kitty newly diagnosed, vet advised additional shots outside of normal 12 hourly, numbers look strange as a result. Need Prozinc users to help OP get back on track and into a settled regime.

OP I'm struggling to understand your spreadsheet, can you update it? If you are switching to a human meter then may be worth starting afresh - it is really important when you post the numbers now to clarify which meter you are using as the human and pet meters read slightly differently.
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Sorry, the spreadsheet is using the AlphaTrak meter. Yesterday morning at 6:30 a.m. I gave 1/2 unit of Prozinc. 4 hours later at 10:30 a.m. I gave another 1/2 unit. At 9:30 p.m. I gave a full unit.
 
Some people use Freestyle Lite strips in the AlphTrack meter @Carol & Murphy can tell you more about that. It would be good to get a second meter too though in case you have a problem with the AT. Have you fed her?
 
ok - so the 93 you just got was around 9 1/2 hours after the last shot? I am in a totally different part of the world which is why we use the +1, +2, etc to make life easier. I use freestyle lite strips in the AT meter so that is an option but you do need to keep some AT strips as a back up in case of odd looking readings.
 
Sharon14 said:
Some people use Freestyle Lite strips in the AlphTrack meter @Carol & Murphy can tell you more about that. It would be good to get a second meter too though in case you have a problem with the AT. Have you fed her?
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No, I have not fed her yet. I was a thinking about testing her again before I fed her. What do you think?
 
Alexi said:
ok - so the 93 you just got was around 9 1/2 hours after the last shot? I am in a totally different part of the world which is why we use the +1, +2, etc to make life easier. I use freestyle lite strips in the AT meter so that is an option but you do need to keep some AT strips as a back up in case of odd looking readings.
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Do you know if freestyle lite strips are available in stores?
 
Yes there are a lot of different freestyle meters and strips so you need to ask specifically for freestyle lite, the important thing is not to recode the AT meter when you start using them, just carry on from the AT strips. Freestyle lite is supposed to be code free so ignore the codes on the container.
 
No, it is a human meter and will give you those numbers which will be lower than the AT meter. Most of us use human meters and understand the difference, so as long as you tell us which meter the numbers come from, we can help. I would choose one meter to use though, to keep things less confusing.
 
Mary when you go to Walmart, pick up some ketone test strips. Since she's had ketones before, you should test her
 
Sharon14 said:
No, it is a human meter and will give you those numbers which will be lower than the AT meter. Most of us use human meters and understand the difference, so as long as you tell us which meter the numbers come from, we can help. I would choose one meter to use though, to keep things less confusing.
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Since I only have 3 AlphaTrak strips left, I am going to get the human meter from Walmart and stick with that.
Sharon14 said:
Mary when you go to Walmart, pick up some ketone test strips. Since she's had ketones before, you should test her
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Okay, I will do that. You say the human meter numbers are lower. Is there a comparison chart so I will know what the human readings mean?
 
There is no comparison chart. Normal numbers for a non diabetic cat with a human meter is 50-120. When on insulin, we want to stay above 50, if Toes gets to that number we consider that hypo and would feed gravy from a high carb food, or honey to bring her numbers up. Do you have a hypo kit? If not, when you go to Walmart pick up a few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers and some karo, or honey.
 
I have Karo. I just tested her again and she was at 62 on the AlphaTrak meter. I am feeding her now. Do you think I need to give her kar0?
 
ok - so just to recap, yesterday she had AMPS of 439 and a total of 2 units of Prozinc spread through the AM and PM and todays AMPS was a +10.5 with a reading of 62 on the AT meter, @Sharon14 any thoughts on what to do next?
 
I was thinking that too and for the OP to come back with the PMPS number to work out a safe dose until the OP can do a curve.
 
No shot below 200. Be sure she doesn't continue to drop from this point. If she does, give some gravy off some Fancy Feast or some of the Karo.

If she were mine, I would start over again tonight. You can shoot early if you skip this morning and she is high enough (200+) so you can get on a schedule you like. I would start at less than 0.5 units, get some numbers this weekend and see how she looks. i think you are seeing bouncing. When their body perceives a low number, it releases extra sugar and the levels "bounce" up higher than normal. You want to avoid the lows/highs and see if you can get back on a more even keel.

A ReliOn meter would be easier for you (getting strips when you need them can be a real issue for the AT meter)

I think you got the Protocol for ProZinc. See if it makes the process clearer and ask questions. It is in blue in my signature
 
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
No shot below 200. Be sure she doesn't continue to drop from this point. If she does, give some gravy off some Fancy Feast or some of the Karo.

If she were mine, I would start over again tonight. You can shoot early if you skip this morning and she is high enough (200+) so you can get on a schedule you like. I would start at less than 0.5 units, get some numbers this weekend and see how she looks. i think you are seeing bouncing. When their body perceives a low number, it releases extra sugar and the levels "bounce" up higher than normal. You want to avoid the lows/highs and see if you can get back on a more even keel.

A ReliOn meter would be easier for you (getting strips when you need them can be a real issue for the AT meter)

I think you got the Protocol for ProZinc. See if it makes the process clearer and ask questions. It is in blue in my signature
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I am not familiar with all the lingo on this board yet. For instance, I don't know what OP means? I am going to go out shortly and get the ReliOn meter from Walmart. As far as feeding goes, Toes is used to grazing. I have taken her completely off dry and feed only wet. She ate this morning at 7:30 am, but not a huge amount. I have thrown out the remaining food. How often do you suggest I test her today? I am getting ready to test her again right now to see if her number has increased from 62, which is what it was before I fed her.
 
So no insulin this morning, right?

OP means you - a fast way to explain who they are talking to or about.

She can continue to graze. Lots of people feed several small meals during the day. You can try an automatic feeder or freeze the food. I use a silicone cupcake pan as a can of Fancy Feast fits perfectly, freeze it and then put the frozen pucks in a plastic bag and throw back in the freezer. You can leave out a frozen puck for her and let her snack on it. Or if it is cool in your house, you can just leave out a small amount of food. Drying out doesn't hurt it. The only important time to pull the food is 2 hours before the preshot test.

Pick up some gravy Fancy Feast at the store (for your hypo kit) and the ketone strips.
I know this is overwhelming and it has been especially difficult for you in the beginning because she has been all over the place with numbers. I'd suggest you regroup tonight, take a test an hour before you'd like to shoot and post with the number. Then we can advise on a good dose. If we can get her started with a tiny amount of insulin and you can start gettIng the data, we can restart.
 
Sorry, OP means original poster, it's shorthand. Wet food brings down glucose levels overall and reduces the insulin need as well. Post your next number and we can have a look. How much does she eat in a day?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
So no insulin this morning, right?

OP means you - a fast way to explain who they are talking to or about.

She can continue to graze. Lots of people feed several small meals during the day. You can try an automatic feeder or freeze the food. I use a silicone cupcake pan as a can of Fancy Feast fits perfectly, freeze it and then put the frozen pucks in a plastic bag and throw back in the freezer. You can leave out a frozen puck for her and let her snack on it. Or if it is cool in your house, you can just leave out a small amount of food. Drying out doesn't hurt it. The only important time to pull the food is 2 hours before the preshot test.

Pick up some gravy Fancy Feast at the store (for your hypo kit) and the ketone strips.
I know this is overwhelming and it has been especially difficult for you in the beginning because she has been all over the place with numbers. I'd suggest you regroup tonight, take a test an hour before you'd like to shoot and post with the number. Then we can advise on a good dose. If we can get her started with a tiny amount of insulin and you can start gettIng the data, we can restart.
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Thanks so much. I am out of strips for AlphaTrak. The last 2 I had errored out, so I don't know where she is at right now, which makes me nervous. I am on my way to Walmart now.
 
Leave her some food to graze on if you are worried, as you have not given insulin this morning we are hoping her numbers will rise now to a shootable level this evening. Prozinc is not a depot insulin so all will be out of her system by then.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
She is most likely to be moving up. I have to go out for an hour but will check on you when I get back in.
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I got a Relion Confirm at Walmart. I tested at 10:38 a.m. EST and the reading was 133. I could not find Ketone strips at Walmart. Do they sell them at pet stores? Do they come specifically for cats or both dogs and cats?
 
Alexi said:
Leave her some food to graze on if you are worried, as you have not given insulin this morning we are hoping her numbers will rise now to a shootable level this evening. Prozinc is not a depot insulin so all will be out of her system by then.
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Her reading on a human meter was 133 at 10:38 a.m. EST. What is a shootable level on a human meter?
 
133 is ok, out of the danger zone. Since her numbers and doses have been all over the place in the past 24 hours you are going to be starting again from scratch this evening so you will need to seek advice on dosing. Her numbers later today may well end up being high because she was too low yesterday and the body releases glucose from the liver when it senses the level is too low, this is what we call a bounce, and it can take several cycles to settle down. At the moment it is better for Toes to run higher numbers until things settle on a steady 12 hourly regime, and the amount of insulin she had yesterday was clearly too much for her so tonight's dose will be small - how small depends on the numbers later on. You don't need a repeat of yesterday. What is ideal is giving the same dose every 12 hours with a steady amount of food at each meal and steady numbers. Unfortunately cats do their own thing so the numbers will vary a bit but it is important not to change doses too fast, numbers can vary day to day, which is why the colour coding on the spreadsheet is very useful.
 
200 is where you cut off on human meters. So under 200, no shot.

Ketone strips should be sold at any pharmacy. Ask the pharmacist...they can help you find them. :)
 
The ketone strips are the ones humans use. On the list for next time. She is coming up nice and slowly. For your ReliOn meter our ranges for regulation are generally in the mid 200s at preshot and then 5-7 hours after the shot (the nadir) in the low 100s or double digits, but above 50 - which is approaching hypo range. So that is your first goal - numbers in the regulated range. When she gets there, then you fine tune the dose into little lower ranges. We consider a cat in remission when they range from 40-120 off insulin for 2 weeks.

I agree. Tonight - when you reach the time you'd like to have as a permanent schedule going forward (12/12), post and we'll see where she is. If you would, post on the PZI forum (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/). Everyone there uses or has used your insulin. People like me have tagged that forum so we get notice when a new thread is started. We can keep better track of you that way and help with dosing. (People who don't use ProZinc will be reluctant to give dosing advice for it)

You are doing great! If you had gone home, not tested and blindly given the dose, she would have definitely hypoed. Instead you have learned to input data in a spreadsheet, how to test, what's safe and how to bring up low numbers and probably saved her life. Take time to breathe today, pat yourself on your back, love up your kitty. You can do this - we will be happy to help.
 
Sorry @Sharon14 , I just got home and got this tag. Looks like Toes all ready got some good advice. :cat:

Congrats on being here to help you cat. You are in the best place you never wanted to be, LOL

And like Sue said, breath. This is all doable and you will learn so much and get comfortable with it all.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
The ketone strips are the ones humans use. On the list for next time. She is coming up nice and slowly. For your ReliOn meter our ranges for regulation are generally in the mid 200s at preshot and then 5-7 hours after the shot (the nadir) in the low 100s or double digits, but above 50 - which is approaching hypo range. So that is your first goal - numbers in the regulated range. When she gets there, then you fine tune the dose into little lower ranges. We consider a cat in remission when they range from 40-120 off insulin for 2 weeks.

I agree. Tonight - when you reach the time you'd like to have as a permanent schedule going forward (12/12), post and we'll see where she is. If you would, post on the PZI forum (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/). Everyone there uses or has used your insulin. People like me have tagged that forum so we get notice when a new thread is started. We can keep better track of you that way and help with dosing. (People who don't use ProZinc will be reluctant to give dosing advice for it)

You are doing great! If you had gone home, not tested and blindly given the dose, she would have definitely hypoed. Instead you have learned to input data in a spreadsheet, how to test, what's safe and how to bring up low numbers and probably saved her life. Take time to breathe today, pat yourself on your back, love up your kitty. You can do this - we will be happy to help.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't know what I would do if I hadn't discovered this web site and all of you wonderful cat lovers. I would like my 12/12 to be 6:30, so I will take a reading then and post it to PZI forum and see what dose you recommend.
 
Another questions I have is that I stopped offering dry food. Toes has always had wet food in the morning and then dry food to nibble on during the day. Is it dangerous that I removed the dry food altogether?
 
Because you have removed the dry, is numbers could go down a lot so testing before you shoot insulin is going to be really important so you won't give insulin if he is too low. ( testing before shots are always important but realllllly important when you have lowered his usual carb load) Congrats for being a really good care giver. :cat::)
 
I'll try to pop in and check on you later too. If you post in the ProZinc forum, we are much more likely to see you. I do have a friend in from out of town, and I'm not sure what time she is free tonight, so I MAY not be around...but I'll surely try! :)
 
Mary O said:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't know what I would do if I hadn't discovered this web site and all of you wonderful cat lovers. I would like my 12/12 to be 6:30, so I will take a reading then and post it to PZI forum and see what dose you recommend.
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I know exactly how you feel! I don't use Prozinc but am considering changing to it so I do pop in and read the Prozinc forum from time to time so I'll watch your progress.

You might also want to think about finding a new vet, we have users from all over the world so if you want help with that just say whereabouts you are located and who knows - there may be someone who lives close to you who could recommend one.
 
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