Prozinc Dosing Help?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Megan Peck

Megan Peck

Member
Hello all. I need some advice re: my Jack. Last night he had a mild to moderate hypo episode. I am new to home testing so in a.m. had not taken his BG before shooting. He had a curve on Wednesday at vet and he seemed comfortable doing everything we were doing and changing nothing (dose). I feed and give him shot at 7 am and again at 7 p.m. He gets 2 units each time. On Wed his number were (and these were determined via blood draw):

8 a.m. 132
10 a.m. 122
12 p.m. 106
2 p.m. 141
4:30 154

So last night I came home from an outing and found him acting very strange, I suspected hypo. I was forced to take blood draw first time (which was successful :)) and he was 78, then 15 minutes later 72...so I fed him and 15 minutes after he was at 87. He shortly began acting normal again and has been fine since. I am using a ReliOn Confirm...I through a previous post understand those numbers are higher than typical hypo but I dont know what was hapoening prior to finding him this way at some point he could have been lower.

Anyway so now I come to this morning and he read on this meter a 132. So I have not given any insulin I fed him and that is where I am now. Not really sure how to proceed or move from here. Do I test again in about 6 hours? If I find he does need it how much?

Let me know if there is any other info you need? I am going to begin spread sheet as previously suggested as well.

TIA-Megan and Jack
 
Hi Megan, I have no dosing advice, but sound like you got him through his slightly low blood sugar (actually those are normal, non-diabetic values, from what I understand, but if he has been high, his body may perceive it like he's low) like a pro! Congrats on home testing... It is the KEY! Also GREAT job on not giving insulin for a 132.

Hopefully @Sue and Oliver (GA) or @Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) will be along to advise you on insulin. You are doing OK!
-Cara
 
Hi Megan! Those numbers...the 78 and 72...how long after insulin did you get those numbers? How many hours? As Cara says, those numbers aren't hypos, but he could have gone lower before that, as you said.

The 132 was definitely too low for insulin...good job there! You could wait awhile and give insulin when he is high enough, but if you do that, it will definitely mess up your schedule, since you will have to wait 12 hours to shoot. Can you do that? If not, you might wait until your normal shot time. Or you could try to shoot just a few hours too early...like an hour or two...if he's high enough. Then you can work your way back to your normal shot time in small increments...again if you can do that.

Sounds like he might need a reduction. Though your vet may say that 2 was a good dose, remember that his values are probably higher at the vet due to stress. So at home, he might need less insulin. With that in mind, it's really important to test before your shot. Congrats on all the good testing you've done so far! If you post tonight before your shot with whatever number you get, we can definitely help you figure out a good, safe dose. You're doing great!
 
Good call skipping this morning, Megan. We usually suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200, until you have more data.

I am with Rachel. It looks like he needs less insulin as 2 units is taking him too low to shoot and with no insulin, he only went up 50 points in 12 hours. Your pm number may be high, but I would still reduce, as he will have been 24 hours without insulin. So the high number can be more indicatative of the length of time without insulin than a "normal" high number.

Did you change to low carb food recently? (That can lower the levels). Also, as Rachel said, your levels are home are likely to be a lot lower than the vet's (stress raises blood glucose levels). It looks like you said on Health your kitty had not had DKA. Any other complications?

Would you consider starting over at a lower dose?
 
Rachel said:
Hi Megan! Those numbers...the 78 and 72...how long after insulin did you get those numbers? How many hours? As Cara says, those numbers aren't hypos, but he could have gone lower before that, as you said.

The 132 was definitely too low for insulin...good job there! You could wait awhile and give insulin when he is high enough, but if you do that, it will definitely mess up your schedule, since you will have to wait 12 hours to shoot. Can you do that? If not, you might wait until your normal shot time. Or you could try to shoot just a few hours too early...like an hour or two...if he's high enough. Then you can work your way back to your normal shot time in small increments...again if you can do that.

Sounds like he might need a reduction. Though your vet may say that 2 was a good dose, remember that his values are probably higher at the vet due to stress. So at home, he might need less insulin. With that in mind, it's really important to test before your shot. Congrats on all the good testing you've done so far! If you post tonight before your shot with whatever number you get, we can definitely help you figure out a good, safe dose. You're doing great!
Click to expand...


Hi there. Those numbers were about 7 to 8 hours after his insulin dose was given. I couldn't really work my schedule around the waiting until it is high, given work day tomorrow. I was thinking I would check at maybe 5 or 6 pm (usually I shoot at 7 pm) and see where he is at and give shot at that time. I can post that number first and see what ya all suggest as far as dosing is concerned. Wow thx for all the help and advice, I do not know what else I would do!!!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Good call skipping this morning, Megan. We usually suggest new diabetics not get a shot under 200, until you have more data.

I am with Rachel. It looks like he needs less insulin as 2 units is taking him too low to shoot and with no insulin, he only went up 50 points in 12 hours. Your pm number may be high, but I would still reduce, as he will have been 24 hours without insulin. So the high number can be more indicatative of the length of time without insulin than a "normal" high number.

Did you change to low carb food recently? (That can lower the levels). Also, as Rachel said, our levels are home are likely to be a lot lower than the vet's (stress raises blood glucose levels). It looks like you said on Health your kitty had not had DKA. Any other complications?

Would you consider starting over at a lower dose?
Click to expand...


Hello-So he has been on all wet FF Classics for a few weeks now maybe even a month, no dry kibble at all. No other complications whatsoever. This was his first ever hypo episode and given what I have researched, it was mild in comparison to what I know others have experienced. For that I am fortunate and def helped me to remain calm. I would definitely consider a lower dose. Thx again for everything!
 
I think checking around 5 or 6 tonight is great. That way, it doesn't throw your schedule off much. What time zone are you in?
 
I am in AZ so that is Mountain Standard Time, currently it is 12:16. Any need to check him before that for any reason or wait until that time?
 
I think you're fine to wait. With no insulin this morning, you can both take a break. He might be high tonight based on not having insulin this morning...just a warning. Nothing to be concerned about, though.
 
Sigh I couldn't get testing done. I tried many times but he was stressed then I became stressed. I definitely was having a hard time getting the right location and my husband even struggled holding him without force...he's very big and strong. To make things worse he's black, making it even harder for me when I'm already so nervous. So I fed him at 7 pm. He has had no insulin. I can try again in the morning, but also wondering if I should involve my vet as well?
 
Don't stress too much. Its OK! It's not like he's got super high glucose values. Since you couldn't test it is safest to not give insulin.
Please try to not worry very much about not being able to get a reading tonight. You probably already know this, but he will pick up on your stress level and it can just sort of become a stressful vibe for everyone. So let it go…
:rolleyes:
You can try again tomorrow, and try to be more relaxed and see if you can just positively reinforce the entire experience for him, even if you don't get any blood.
Give yourself credit for trying, and for the successes that you had so far!:bighug:
 
Does he object to being held or does he just not like the whole thing? Have you found a treat he loves and saved it just for poking? You might try conditioning him - go back to just warming the ear, pets and praise and the treat and no poke for a few times. It sounds silly but some people sing a quiet little song during the process, to relax themselves and the cat (a variation of the hokey pokey - pokey, pokey, I think.... is popular)
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Does he object to being held or does he just not like the whole thing? Have you found a treat he loves and saved it just for poking? You might try conditioning him - go back to just warming the ear, pets and praise and the treat and no poke for a few times. It sounds silly but some people sing a quiet little song during the process, to relax themselves and the cat (a variation of the hokey pokey - pokey, pokey, I think.... is popular)
Click to expand...
Oh my goodness! That made me laugh out loud!! The hokey POKEY! :p:joyful::D

I know with my kitty he & I worked a LOT on just putting him in the same place ( on the low bench with a blanket padding underneath him) and I just loved on him, and petted him and stroked him and rubbed the WARM rice sock all over his head and ears and back... and then gave him a dried meat treat and let him down. He had to have good association because I live alone and this HAD to work...

Now, he jumps up on bench when he sees I am coming with the rice sock. And holds still. He insist I rub the sock all over his head and face while warming an ear. And I haven't given him a treat afterwards in a long time... :rolleyes:

Gosh...Now I feel guilty. I poked his ears 30-40 times this weekend and no treat :facepalm:. Bad cat mom!
 
Thx ladies and since I love to be goofy-sing and makeup songs, that is almost too perfect of an idea haha.

So I am not abandoning the idea of doing the home testing we just definitely needed a break. I took him over to my vet, who is wonderful and supportive of all my ideas and info regarding healing and remission. They called me and said his BG is 162 and he has not had insulin since Saturday morning. She was blown away by this and said she believed we had a kitty headed toward remission. So her suggestion was to lower dose down to 1 unit 2x a day (instead of the 2 units) and come back in a couple weeks for a curve, but she said in a month maybe we will find he no longer needs it. Her hope is in a couple weeks to need to bring the dose down even lower and so on...

What do you all think?
 
I am worried about two things, Megan. One, the number can be much higher at the vet than his normal number at home, so he could be lower than 162. Second, we strongly advise new diabetics not to shoot under 200 but to stall. This means you would wait 20 minutes, without feeding to be sure food won't influence the number higher, and retest. Not only do you want a number near 200 but you want to be sure the number is rising not still falling. If it 200+, then you could safely shoot but maybe a little less than the dose before.

It definitely sounds like lower doses are in his future. Our theory is that it is better to start low and increase as your home testing indicates, rather than start higher and try to guess how much to reduce. It is much safer to start low and raise as needed. We suggest new diabetes start at .5 or or one unit and not shoot under 200.
 
Megan, I agree with Sue. If you are checking then you could see if 1u is too much, but if not, then it seems to me that any dose at these (relatively) low numbers could be too much and he could have a hypo glycemic episode.

Once the insulin is in him, if the pancreas is also producing insulin, it could be too much.

Better too little insulin than too much!
 
I agree. Maybe do some practicing on the home testing and then start thinking of what dose would be good?
 
Megan Peck said:
I thought about that! Do you need a different lancet to do this or same? Is this a method you use?
Click to expand...

Nope, you can use the same lancet. This how I've always tested Goof. Our first home testing went so badly, I poked a hole right through his ear! :nailbiting: Had a MAJOR meltdown (me, not him) :arghh: and after my vet talked me "off the roof", he suggested the paw pads. So, so much easier.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top