Pre shot spike

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It's hard to tell. It would be great to know exactly. To me it looks like he had a very early nadir and then bounced right away and stayed up there. It is also pretty common for N although it hasn't been his pattern before. He was surfing along in better ranges.

You could try going up to 1.5. The problem with N is that can just mean a harsher faster drop. (With milder insulins, a dose increase usually results in lower ranges, but with N it doesn't usually work that way.). I think I'd be tempted to give 1.25 another cycle and see what happens. Sometimes one weird cycle is just that.

Yes, you can try 3 times a day, but again, I'd wait. Last night was the first cycle where he looked like the insulin didn't last long enough. (Or it was a big bounce). Too soon to tell. If he starts a pattern of short cycles with high numbers by +6, it might be an option. But it is hard to do and scary, especially with N, which is pretty hard to predict anyway.

Any luck with a new insulin. Are you watching the Supply closet daily to see if anyone has some to give away?
 
I had thought the same, with my limited knowledge, that it could just be a flukey cycle. He is now getting more stressed at test time! Wriggling out of burrito, when I use it. Don't always. He's never appreciated being restrained. Anyway, he's obviously stressed. So there's that too. Are we getting a good enough picture here? Should I test every 2hrs for a bit?
I've been watching the supply closet, but not yet today, which I will.
Thank you so much, Sue for getting back to us so quick.
 
You are sure offering treats with the poke. While you are actually poking him is fine too.

I'd give his ears and you a rest today. He is very unlikely to drop too low. Maybe a test in the 4-6 range to see if he dropped?
 
Yes, I am offering treats & grooming here :cat: I got the bonito flakes, and try to use them when we poke. He sniffs at them and acts like he doesn't know what to do with them. And they're kinda 'airy' Sue..they scatter. o_O. Are you laughing now, because I am using them improperly?
It's OK I am laughing too.
Yes I can test then for sure, we shall greatly appreciate a break. I'll stick it w the 1.25, contemplate the 1.50 in a few cycles. Meanwhile the work week is off & running again, but I will be contacting the vet about the new insulin. HE never called me back.( I know, I'm looking. )
Supply closet is a no, currently. Try again soon.
 
No, no laughter. Yes, they are airy. You could put them in a bowl. If he isn't sure if he likes them, you might add them on top of dinner. They'd stay put and he might decide he likes the taste. Another possibility is Pure
Bites. They are freeze dried bites of fish or meat.
 
Does Tucker like chicken? China wasn't a fan of the freeze dried chicken or the bonito flakes either, but her Achilles heel ended up being a little piece of plain old baked chicken

I'd bake a piece, cut it up into bite sized pieces and put a couple days worth in the refrigerator and freeze the rest. Soon she was coming to her testing spot when she was called because she knew there'd be chicken!
 
Thank you China. The problem is none of mine ever liked snacks, because I didn't provide. Once in awhile, tuna water for one of them, but Tucker never snacked! He may be willing now though, with the right thing. I bake a whole chicken pretty often, so I am trying that next! Thank you both so much for trying to help. I sure want to get him to the "waiting at the spot" stage. :)
Sue, I think I might dampen the flakes in the bowl and try that. I did sprinkle over food to get him acclimated, but wasn't very consistent w it. Try try again.
I gotta reorganize girls!
 
Looking at the spreadsheet, I think I'm seeing a cat that might want to get off insulin. Here are some examples why:
On a pre-shot of 391, he dropped to 92 by +3 with a dose of 1.5
On a pre-shot of 496, he dropped to 93 by +6 with a dose of 1.0

His nadir, or lowest between-shot glucose, appears to fall between +3 to +5.
Here is a graph of his average numbers at each time period. The lines all join together when only 1 value exists in that time period.
Tucker's tests.jpg





.
 
BJ, could you elaborate just a bit more on your last statement? What would you suggest at this point?
I'm a little astounded at this graph. Thank you for charting it.
Wow.
 
He's due at 10PM for insulin. Should I go below 1 unit, say half unit? Would this hurt him or give us good information?
 
For each time period - pre-shot, +1, +# - I did the following:
counted the number of tests
summed the glucose values
divided the sum by the count to get the average glucose
determined the minimum glucose
determined the maximum
Next, I graphed over the 24 hours a line for each of the minimum, average, and maximum glucose levels.
He is somewhat bouncy, and you can see how the insulin wears off sometime around +5 to +6.

Your pre-shot level will determine how much you shoot. Cats frequently go lower overnight, so this would be a good time to test a lower dose such as 0.5 units.

He's really on a roller coaster with the N. Would you consider trying BCP PZI? It is compounded and works similarly to ProZinc.
 
Yes I have approached the vet about it. I certainly want to change. I'm on that phone tomorrow first thing, to get this started.
I am in your debt for this kindness, I appreciate it so much.
Would you be offended if I asked Sue if she concurs?
Please excuse me for a bit, I need to test & give insulin.
 
Hi Brenda,

I saw your post. I am not sure I see what BJ is seeing, but this process is not an exact science and experimenting with different things is certainly worth doing. I respect BJ and think she has good instincts. It's night and .5 is a safe dose. I'd say try it and see if the numbers improve.
 
BJM and Sue :: Oh my gosh is there nothing one can do when numbers are so high @ nadir and you've still got hours yet til shot? I was awakened by him, ravenous and hanging from his claws on bedroom door. Poor little beggar. It's 7:30 and he's searching every nook for random tidbits.
Also, I need to post a new thread re: vet concern, can you both keep an eye out for it??
  • Thank you for all you are doing for us.
 
So are you mid way through the cycle? I'd definitely give him something to eat. Let's see what @BJM says but I think you could shoot early, around +8, unless he starts down.

Remember, one high cycle is not the end of the world. It is just a high cycle and worth a try to see if a lower dose would help. If he continues in these higher ranges, I'd think we'd go back to 1.25.

Yes, start a new thread.
 
If it won't completely mess up your schedule and you can you can shoot 12 hours from now, I'd go ahead and give 1.25 Can you monitor some today (maybe +2/+6) to catch anything wonky?
 
Not as high as yesterday's AMPS, but I know sustained critical #'s are awful for him!! I could shoot at 9 at the earliest & not wreck havoc on my own schedule... however 9:30 would be better.
Bottom line: Whatever is best for Tucker.
 
Tucker&Me said:
Not as high as yesterday's AMPS, but I know sustained critical #'s are awful for him!! I could shoot at 9 at the earliest & not wreck havoc on my own schedule... however 9:30 would be better.
Bottom line: Whatever is best for Tucker.
Click to expand...

Just remember, one high cycle is just one high cycle. Lots of people, even experienced ones, do a fur shot (not getting the whole shot in). They just have to ride it out for a cycle.
 
I am blowing up the fur, in extremely bright light to avoid this..as I feared this a few days ago. Something to be discussed though, is the liquid shot in syringe, itself. Not trusting these things. It ALWAYS has a teeny portion (air bubble) that must be fooled with, until I feel I have a full dose.
When you are drawing such a minute dose, it can't possibly be accurate on those things! I know how to draw up etc, etc. Used to assist in podiatric surgery.
I know you said 1.25 next. Is this 1.25 "for me" or him?
I surely want to give it a good try. Sorry to be all over the place..
 
It's OK. Sleep deprived.
I will give 1.25 shortly. Post. Then I must fly to a commitment briefly, return & test just to be sure, maybe +2 +3...
BONITO FLAKES ARE SAVING THE DAY NOW! He loves them during test. Are they OK to give freely??
 
Good. Sounds like you are on track. If Bonito Flakes have any carbs, it's a tiny, tiny amount. Yes, give freely.

Sounds like you need a nap this afternoon.
 
There are 2 ways to manage the shorter action of the N, if you must continue using it.
The first way is dosing every 8 hours. This would mean testing and shooting 3 times a day, which may be difficult for folks' schedules.
The second way, which is a bit more complicated, is to divide each dose in half and giving the 2nd half 3 hours later. This staggers the effects of the insulin, which may give you a less steep drop and not quite as extreme drop and rise. (If you were to visualize it, it would be like seeing double vision of the letter V). This would double your testing.
Ideally, switching to a longer acting insulin would be best - less complicated, only 2 test, feed, and shoot periods per day.
 
The staggering would work for me a good share of the time. I like the idea of lessening the extremes on both ends. I may try it when I can sustain it for consecutive cycles. This will take some thought however.
I want to change to BCP PZI. No time at the moment to fully describe my current problem w my vet. I planned on finishing my post about the vet, but don't know where to access my draft!? I'll have to do it later this evening.
Thanks BJ
 
Show your vet the spreadsheet and give the link to BCP for sending in the prescription. If you pay BCP directly, you won't get upcharged for the priveledge of getting it at the vet.
 
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