pre shot BG
- Thread starter terri1962
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squeem3
Very Active Member
terri1962 said:
No.
102 is a nice normal healthy bg to have :smile: If you want, you can retest in half an hour but I doubt the bg will go up very much. Newbies should not give any insulin if the bg is under 200.
Just skip the insulin shot for tonight. Your cat will be ok with a missed injection :smile: Tomorrow morning test bg as usual. Tonight's missed shot may mean a bg higher than usual tomorrow morning but that's ok :smile: Give the normal dose, but again, only if the bg is over 200. You do not want to potentially send your cat into a hypo.
terri1962
Very Active Member
Yes I am new so I do not give her shot tonight? I am not testing her again It was hard enough testing her the first time I will just let her be for tonight. She is just not eating much. She is losing more weight. This is the first time I have tested her at home the vet told me not to home test her but I noticed tonight she seemed very tired.
Deb415andNikki
Active Member
Dear Terri, and, of course, you too, darling Lilly,
You did great tonight!
Love and big, safe hugs for you and Lilly,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me how to dance with a sugar cat...
PS: Regarding keeping an interest in Fancy Feast. Have at least five or six varieties and rotate the hell out of them!
You did great tonight!
Love and big, safe hugs for you and Lilly,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me how to dance with a sugar cat...
PS: Regarding keeping an interest in Fancy Feast. Have at least five or six varieties and rotate the hell out of them!
Charliemeow
Very Active Member
I am so glad you didn't listen to this particular piece of advice from your vet. Great number, Lilly!! Great catch, mama!!
terri1962
Very Active Member
I just posted in the Lantus forum to ask for help with dosing information. I took my mom`s dog to the vet today and while I was there they asked me how Lilly was doing I told them I was home testing, mind you they do not want me to home test for whatever reason and will not show me how. I told them I am earpoking to get blood and he told me they are not poking Lilly`s ears because they got some strange readings when they tested her they are poking elsewhere, paw, leg, not sure.
Don`t most people here poke in the ear if they can to get blood for the testing? This vet is stressing me out so much. I tried using the lancing device and am having trouble with it I can not for the life of me get it to work to get the blood. I have to take a lancet and poke her ear which I know hurts her and I hate doing.
Don`t most people here poke in the ear if they can to get blood for the testing? This vet is stressing me out so much. I tried using the lancing device and am having trouble with it I can not for the life of me get it to work to get the blood. I have to take a lancet and poke her ear which I know hurts her and I hate doing.
Caitlyn and Molly
Member
My vet didn't want me to home test either. She also wanted me to feed Molly dry Purina DM and told me switching her to a canned low carb food would make her worse. I ignored all of her "advice"--which she told me herself was based off of the Purina rep-- and Molly has now been off insulin for over a year and her blood pannels showing kidney, ect. function of a normal cat. Vets have good intentions, but there are many diseases and illnesses (like feline diabetes) they are just behind the times on.
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
Terri, I'm sorry that you are going through this! The capillary blood in the ears is just fine. They may be referring to plasma blood but the difference really isn't significant.
Do you have any FDMBers near where you live?
Jen
Do you have any FDMBers near where you live?
Jen
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
Terri
Please go to this link http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 182,779182 and see where veterinary associations, vets, etc. support home testing and using the ear
Jen
Please go to this link http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 182,779182 and see where veterinary associations, vets, etc. support home testing and using the ear
Jen
terri1962
Very Active Member
Jen
Yes BJ lives in Columbus and had offered to help but she lives way on the Northwest side of Columbus and I am on the extreme South side. She also does not see well out night which I understand. It is quite a drive from that side of town down here. I am most confused I guess with the Lantus and the dosing.
I guess am thinking of human diabetes and when you test blood sugar you adjust insulin dosage accordingly. But Lantus is a longer lasting insulin and it works different?
Not sure what to do.
Yes BJ lives in Columbus and had offered to help but she lives way on the Northwest side of Columbus and I am on the extreme South side. She also does not see well out night which I understand. It is quite a drive from that side of town down here. I am most confused I guess with the Lantus and the dosing.
I guess am thinking of human diabetes and when you test blood sugar you adjust insulin dosage accordingly. But Lantus is a longer lasting insulin and it works different?
Not sure what to do.
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
Its time to simplify things. You can learn the more detailed ins and outs of lantus as things progress, but for now, stick with the basics.
Stick with a nice low dose, given consistently twice a day. Do not raise out of fear for one high number. Do lower or skip with a number lower than say 200. Give the insulin time to build up in her body and for the effects of changes to 'settle', then re-evaluate after a few days and see whether some changes are needed. Note that there are similarities with human treatment but also differences...cats metabolize insulin much quicker, and they are unable to tell us what is going on in their bodies so we have to have data to support changes we make.
Does this make any sense? I promise you, it will get easier. Just try some very simple dosing right now, get advice from here or the lantus group if you get numbers below 200, and try to chill. ;-)
Jen
Stick with a nice low dose, given consistently twice a day. Do not raise out of fear for one high number. Do lower or skip with a number lower than say 200. Give the insulin time to build up in her body and for the effects of changes to 'settle', then re-evaluate after a few days and see whether some changes are needed. Note that there are similarities with human treatment but also differences...cats metabolize insulin much quicker, and they are unable to tell us what is going on in their bodies so we have to have data to support changes we make.
Does this make any sense? I promise you, it will get easier. Just try some very simple dosing right now, get advice from here or the lantus group if you get numbers below 200, and try to chill. ;-)
Jen
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Very Active Member
To test, my vet drew KT's blood from the vein in his leg via that harpoon thingy syringe - NOT something we do at home. I think someone told me it WAS different??? Something like vein blood and capillary blood reading differently or something - I don't know much about medicine in general but the last few years have forced me to start. He wasn't surprised I started home testing as he's been treating my animals for years and know I tend to take charge myself.
Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin
Very Active Member
terri1962 said:
Hi Terri,
I wish I lived in your area to come help you test! I had difficulty with the lancet device in the beginning. I am a visual learner so have to see what I'm doing, then once I learn it's by feel. My device did not have a clear plastic cap, but I think even if it had, the action of the lancet is much too fast for me to tell what it's doing and where it's going in.
So you can use the lancet needle cartridge without the pen - freehand! That was so much easier for me and I've always done it that way ever since. Have you seen this picture:
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/chupie_2006/testingear/sweetspot.jpg
Sorry I couldn't get it to post the picture, just click the link.
It shows the best area of the ear to test. Try to use that area for now, then when you get better at it, you can use other areas. Alternate ears and after you prick the ear, press a dampened cotton ball or tissue against the spot for a few seconds. Not only does it stop the bleeding, but it also prevents bruising.
As for the purpose of home testing with cats, it is different than for people. People have the advantage of knowing how they feel, as well as using testing. For cats all we have is testing. The best method for managing Lantus dosing is called the Tilly method. Read about it here http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm
It is necessary to test several times a day to determine how well Lantus is working, then you decide how to adjust the dose. You must not adjust dose based on any one test. We can help you understand what the numbers mean so you can make the best decision.
Hope that helps. It always is difficult in the beginning, because there are so many things to learn and do. But it gets easier, I promise!
ohbell
Very Active Member
Ms. Terri,
Please give yourself some credit and be patient! you will learn... we all do...........you are doing great! I still use the lancet pen and set it around 7-9, depending on Beans attitude.. and mine... Some times I am just calmer and so is she. Keep up the good work... you will get this in no time and be helping others...PROMISE
Please give yourself some credit and be patient! you will learn... we all do...........you are doing great! I still use the lancet pen and set it around 7-9, depending on Beans attitude.. and mine... Some times I am just calmer and so is she. Keep up the good work... you will get this in no time and be helping others...PROMISE
terri1962
Very Active Member
The vet has her at 1 and 1/2 right now, so I am to give her that unless I get a reading under 200 is this right? I only gave her 1 unit this morning because I got a reading of 218. she got no shot last night due to 102 reading, I am so new at this and was afraid to give her anything.
She is not however eating very much she is a small cat maybe 7 or 8 lbs and will not always eat when I give her the shot she will usually just go lay down like shes half dead. I am afraid to even leave the house. I am so afraid I am going to lose this cat, just lost her sister a year ago to a lung tumor. She is a beautiful Siamese tabby mix. I wish I could post a picture of her but can`t figure how to do it.
She is not however eating very much she is a small cat maybe 7 or 8 lbs and will not always eat when I give her the shot she will usually just go lay down like shes half dead. I am afraid to even leave the house. I am so afraid I am going to lose this cat, just lost her sister a year ago to a lung tumor. She is a beautiful Siamese tabby mix. I wish I could post a picture of her but can`t figure how to do it.
Maresydotes
Active Member
Terri,
I probably sound like a broken record (or a rep from the Halo company) but try some of the freeze dried chicken crunched up and sprinkled over her food. I do that if either of my two seem to be off their appetite.
I probably sound like a broken record (or a rep from the Halo company) but try some of the freeze dried chicken crunched up and sprinkled over her food. I do that if either of my two seem to be off their appetite.
squeem3
Very Active Member
Can you please remove the 911 icon from your first post? This thread is no longer an emergency. :smile: Just go to your first post and at the bottom of the message is a button that says Edit. Click on that and deslect the 911 icon. Then save/submit.
What lancet device are you using? Chances are someone here is using the same one that you are and can offer suggestions and tips on how to use it. Most lancet devices need to be set at a pretty high depth setting at least a first so you can get a good drop of blood. It also helps to press the lancet device firmly against the ear before you press the button to make it prick. Hold someting firm on the opposite side of the ear, like the "rice sock" or a cosmetic square, so the ear isn't so floppy and you don't accidentally prick yourself. If the lancet device comes with a clear cap, use that so you can see where you are pricking. It's too easy to position the little hole where the lancet comes out of just off the edge of the ear so that you're just pricking nothing but air.
Yes, no insulin at all if the bg is under 200. If the bg is close, say 180, what you can do if you have the time is retest in about half an hour. If the new bg is over 200, then give insulin. If it's still under 200, no insulin.
218 is a pretty decent number for no insulin last night :smile:
Have you tried sprinkling yummy treats on the food to make it more appealing? Crushed up low carb treats, a little tuna juice (the kind in water, not oil), a little powdered cheese, etc. Heating the food up or making it gravy-like by adding water may work, too. What brand of food are you feeding?
What lancet device are you using? Chances are someone here is using the same one that you are and can offer suggestions and tips on how to use it. Most lancet devices need to be set at a pretty high depth setting at least a first so you can get a good drop of blood. It also helps to press the lancet device firmly against the ear before you press the button to make it prick. Hold someting firm on the opposite side of the ear, like the "rice sock" or a cosmetic square, so the ear isn't so floppy and you don't accidentally prick yourself. If the lancet device comes with a clear cap, use that so you can see where you are pricking. It's too easy to position the little hole where the lancet comes out of just off the edge of the ear so that you're just pricking nothing but air.
Yes, no insulin at all if the bg is under 200. If the bg is close, say 180, what you can do if you have the time is retest in about half an hour. If the new bg is over 200, then give insulin. If it's still under 200, no insulin.
218 is a pretty decent number for no insulin last night :smile:
Have you tried sprinkling yummy treats on the food to make it more appealing? Crushed up low carb treats, a little tuna juice (the kind in water, not oil), a little powdered cheese, etc. Heating the food up or making it gravy-like by adding water may work, too. What brand of food are you feeding?
Maresydotes
Active Member
PS I know how you are feeling.....Missy was not doing real well for a while after we got started. I almost wondered if I was doing the right thing..... But in less than a month she was in remission :RAHCAT Unfortunately, she relapsed and is now back on the juice, but is in a MUCH better place. She just brought me in her third dragonfly catch of the day as I was writing this 
so you know she isn't feeling too bad.
so you know she isn't feeling too bad.
terri1962
Very Active Member
I am using Walgreens lancet. It does not have a clear cap, hence the problem. I have two other fat male cats that are pigs and have to watch or Lilly won`t get anything to eat. I have watched the one literally push her away from the bowl and it would not matter if I put bowls all over the house. The other one will lick all the juice off the food so no one else will eat it and go on to the next bowl of food.
Maresydotes that is so cool Missy catchs dragonflies, sorry to hear she is back on the insulin.
Maresydotes that is so cool Missy catchs dragonflies, sorry to hear she is back on the insulin.
squeem3
Very Active Member
Most pharmacies sell a couple different brands of lancet devices. Try another brand to see if that works better. The AccuChek MultiClix is widely available and some people here like using it. I prefer the AccuChek SoftClix but pharmacies don't seem to sell it, only the lancets for it confused_cat The OneTouch lancet devices are pretty easy to use.
Maresydotes
Active Member
Terri,
I think it was Larry and kitties who sent me to www.shrink pictures.com. It is really easy to use.....it walks you through the whole process of shrinking your photo (90x90) to use as an avatar. I couldn't figure it out, no matter how I tried and once he gave me that web site it was super easy.
I hope your Lilly starts feeling better soon. I know when I was transitioning Miss to wet food, I followed her all over the place and put her dish in front of her. She would finally eat when she was on the bed (sleeping) if I left the food with her and left the room. I think I hovered over her too much and she sensed my anxiety. I am not sure that is why she started eating, but I do think leaving her alone to eat helped.
I know this is hard....I was consumed by worry and taking care of her. I have a wonderful vet and I must have drove her crazy with my questions and emails. :razz: But she did improve and it got easier. And even though she relapsed, this time around, I am WAY less stressed by it....and she is too. So, just hang there. I know it doesn't seem like it will ever get easier but it does. Hang in there!
I think it was Larry and kitties who sent me to www.shrink pictures.com. It is really easy to use.....it walks you through the whole process of shrinking your photo (90x90) to use as an avatar. I couldn't figure it out, no matter how I tried and once he gave me that web site it was super easy.
I hope your Lilly starts feeling better soon. I know when I was transitioning Miss to wet food, I followed her all over the place and put her dish in front of her. She would finally eat when she was on the bed (sleeping) if I left the food with her and left the room. I think I hovered over her too much and she sensed my anxiety. I am not sure that is why she started eating, but I do think leaving her alone to eat helped.
I know this is hard....I was consumed by worry and taking care of her. I have a wonderful vet and I must have drove her crazy with my questions and emails. :razz: But she did improve and it got easier. And even though she relapsed, this time around, I am WAY less stressed by it....and she is too. So, just hang there. I know it doesn't seem like it will ever get easier but it does. Hang in there!
Maresydotes
Active Member
PS the web site is one word...my autocorrect autocorrected it wrong grr_red
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
Um, if she was only 218 after no shot the night before, then she may not need insulin long. How was she diagnosed?
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
Ok, glad the fructosamine was done.
Still, those numbers are pretty darn great, though diabetic. Means she may not much insulin, and perhaps not for long. Either way, you are doing great!
Still, those numbers are pretty darn great, though diabetic. Means she may not much insulin, and perhaps not for long. Either way, you are doing great!
BJM
Very Active Member
I use the Walmart ReliOn lancets free hand, so I can see the point and know exactly where I'm poking. I take a square of toilet tissue, fold in quarters, then fold that in half again and use it underneath the ear to support it and prevent the lancet from poking me.
And I'm available to come by Saturday afternoon, if that is convenient for you.
And I'm available to come by Saturday afternoon, if that is convenient for you.
BJM
Very Active Member
As far as the vets office goes, it could be helpful to print these abstracts
Convert A Vet
It is YOUR cat, not theirs. If you continue to be berated by office staff or vets (per a private PM), politely tell them you will be searching for another vet, who is UP TO DATE on feline diabetes management. Better yet, find one and then tell them that and request the medical records.
If you had a baby, would you EVER give it insulin without testing first? Absolutely not, because you might kill it if you gave unneeded insulin and it could become very ill if you did not keep track of the glucose levels to allow you to adjust the dose.
I'm sure they'd like to earn the money running a non-representative curve on your diabetic cat, however those results will be affected by vet visit stress on the cat and are likely to be incorrect, leading to incorrect insulin dosing of your cat and potential problems.
Dr Rand, of the University of Queensland, is a worldwide expert in the management of feline diabetes. She worked with an online forum, Diabetes Katzen (its in German, Google Translate handles it ok). She has developed dosing guidelines USING HOME GLUCOMETERS. Print out the attached file for reference. The ranges take into account that a human glucometer will get somewhat different readings than an animal specific glucometer. That'll be handy to have if they want to compare their test results with yours.
Dosing protocol for cats on glargine or detemir using daily home monitoring of blood glucose concentrations to adjust insulin dose
Convert A Vet
It is YOUR cat, not theirs. If you continue to be berated by office staff or vets (per a private PM), politely tell them you will be searching for another vet, who is UP TO DATE on feline diabetes management. Better yet, find one and then tell them that and request the medical records.
If you had a baby, would you EVER give it insulin without testing first? Absolutely not, because you might kill it if you gave unneeded insulin and it could become very ill if you did not keep track of the glucose levels to allow you to adjust the dose.
I'm sure they'd like to earn the money running a non-representative curve on your diabetic cat, however those results will be affected by vet visit stress on the cat and are likely to be incorrect, leading to incorrect insulin dosing of your cat and potential problems.
Dr Rand, of the University of Queensland, is a worldwide expert in the management of feline diabetes. She worked with an online forum, Diabetes Katzen (its in German, Google Translate handles it ok). She has developed dosing guidelines USING HOME GLUCOMETERS. Print out the attached file for reference. The ranges take into account that a human glucometer will get somewhat different readings than an animal specific glucometer. That'll be handy to have if they want to compare their test results with yours.
Dosing protocol for cats on glargine or detemir using daily home monitoring of blood glucose concentrations to adjust insulin dose
terri1962
Very Active Member
BJ
That exactly what I told them. The vet tech that reamed me has kids. I said Jennifer would you give one of your kids insulin shots and never test their BG levels. She got real snotty and said cats are different. I don`t have any kids, just cats, they are my babies and they are all old except one very ornery year and half old. The thing is as I told you I live on the South side of Columbus, which I hate and there is nothing down here, very few vets offices, not much of anything. There is nothing worse than driving across town with a sick stressed cat in horrible traffic.
I would love to able to take her to the Cats Only clinic but that is so far away. Also been using the lancets free hand as well but I am still not sure where to poke and have to poke to many times. No matter how many videos I watch or whatever still not sure.
Terri
That exactly what I told them. The vet tech that reamed me has kids. I said Jennifer would you give one of your kids insulin shots and never test their BG levels. She got real snotty and said cats are different. I don`t have any kids, just cats, they are my babies and they are all old except one very ornery year and half old. The thing is as I told you I live on the South side of Columbus, which I hate and there is nothing down here, very few vets offices, not much of anything. There is nothing worse than driving across town with a sick stressed cat in horrible traffic.
I would love to able to take her to the Cats Only clinic but that is so far away. Also been using the lancets free hand as well but I am still not sure where to poke and have to poke to many times. No matter how many videos I watch or whatever still not sure.
Terri
dian and wheezer
Very Active Member
terri, take BJ up on her offer. if not, maybe a friend and I can drive out one day soon and we can chat and show you a few tricks or we can meet halfway. I am in pgh pa
BJM
Very Active Member
Any chance you could move a bit west, to Grove City, or the West Side? I'll help you pack!!!
BTW - its a 25 minute drive between our respective addresses, if its not rush hour or g*d awful weather. I drive longer than that when I do rescue transports - last weekend was an 8 hour round trip to the north side of Pittsburg! (And I'll never take State Route 22 back!!! Curves on hills galore, setting off the arthritis and muscle spasms in the arms - ouch!)
Its a 25 minute drive to Cats Only
Its a 20 minute drive to Grove City Veterinary Hospital
Its a 20 minute drive to Canal Animal Clinic
Its a 15 minute drive to Stringtown Animal Hospital, (had some decent reviews on the internet)
BTW - its a 25 minute drive between our respective addresses, if its not rush hour or g*d awful weather. I drive longer than that when I do rescue transports - last weekend was an 8 hour round trip to the north side of Pittsburg! (And I'll never take State Route 22 back!!! Curves on hills galore, setting off the arthritis and muscle spasms in the arms - ouch!)
Its a 25 minute drive to Cats Only
Its a 20 minute drive to Grove City Veterinary Hospital
Its a 20 minute drive to Canal Animal Clinic
Its a 15 minute drive to Stringtown Animal Hospital, (had some decent reviews on the internet)
terri1962
Very Active Member
BJ
I would love to move back to Victorian Village but could not afford to live up there any longer. The property values and rents have went up so much since I have lived up there. I can`t even find enough Fancy Feast classic cat food anywhere on this side of town. Giant Eagle has stopped carrying a lot of it and I have to drive around to the various Dollar General trying to find it.
Terri
I would love to move back to Victorian Village but could not afford to live up there any longer. The property values and rents have went up so much since I have lived up there. I can`t even find enough Fancy Feast classic cat food anywhere on this side of town. Giant Eagle has stopped carrying a lot of it and I have to drive around to the various Dollar General trying to find it.
Terri
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