Possibly dumb question - hypo without insulin?

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Genevieve & Oslo

Genevieve & Oslo

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Hello all!

***Just to be clear: this is not an emergency hypo situation.***

Some might remember me from a few weeks ago. My cat Oslo had super high BGs and I had questions about his dosage on Caninsulin. I'm kind of shy so I didn't post much. :oops:

Well now, the situation is completely the opposite! Just as I was about to switch Oslo to Lantus after many of you advised it, his BGs started to lower. I had switched him a week before to very low carb Fancy Feast (3-5% max), again after advice from here. I stopped giving him insulin when his BG was under 140. So this is his 4th day without insulin, and his BGs continue dropping. His BG tonight was 63. I'm insanely happy of course and I hope he'll be OTJ in 10 days.

But here's my (possibly dumb) question : is there a danger of hypoglycemia if his BGs keep getting lower? How low can normal BGs go? Can cats be hypoglycemic if they're not getting insulin?

Thank you for your help!
Geneviève & Oslo
 
I had to ask this question also. When Jake went into remission 8-1/2 months ago, I initially tested him daily before phasing down to once a month. In the beginning he sometimes got as low as 53 so I was concerned. The people on this board guaranteed me that a hypo was not going to happen if he is not on insulin (which of course he wasn't).The past few months he has always been between 65 and 75 at monthly testing time. So not to worry.

Judy & Jake
 
Yittle also went quite low when he went off insulin - basically anything in the 50-120 range (or for some 140) you don't worry about - they're all possible depending on when the cat age, what carbs they ate etc. You can also up your cats carbs to the 7-10% side of the scale if you're worried. With Yittle we'd feed him anywhere from 0-14% calories from carbs after he went off the insulin and it really didn't matter all that much as long as we varied it and didn't feed him all very low, or all higher. Sort of like a normal human diet - you've got higher carb and lower carb meals and your blood sugar goes up and down but stays within a normal range.


It is possible for other serious medical conditions to cause a cat to hypo when they are not diabetic, are not getting insulin etc - but thats not something you should be worried about in your situation. If the 60's are unnerving you then up the carbs a couple of percent to ease your worries, something over 5% and under 10%.
 
Thank you Gina!

I'll try varying his food a bit with some higher carb meals to see how much of a difference it makes with his BGs. Do you think I should start now when he's only been off insulin for 4 days or wait a bit longer? When did you start varying Yittle's food?
 
I wouldn't advise intentionally raising those BGs, especially when he's only been off of insulin a few days. Yes, you can vary his food and you don't have to keep the % of calories from carbs super duper low, but I wouldn't mess with carb levels TOO much either.
 
I freaked out too, when Sampson had a hypo incident in November. I had him off of insulin but was worried that he could have another shock. The good people on these boards told me that he couldn't. Your question is not dumb. Good luck.



Vicki & Sampson
 
Thanks everyone for your answers! I think that I'll wait a bit before varying Oslo's food, to give his pancreas more time to heal. I know that I have to be really careful because he seems to be very sensitive to carbs. After I switched him to Fancy Feast classic flavors and saw his BGs dropped significantly, I gave him some Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys by mistake and his BG shot up to over 500, highest I'd seen it. So yes, very careful!

By the way, I apologize for saying that it was a "possibly dumb question" and I really hope that I haven't offended anyone. I realize that there are no "dumb" questions here; only worried people! So, I'm sorry.

Thank you everyone!
 
Thank you Janet! That was very interesting! I use a Ascensia Contour, the meter that is said to give values about 10 mg/dl lower. So that might be why Oslo's BGs are so low. This is Oslo's 7th day without insulin: his BG this morning was 43. His BG keeps getting lower. Is it possible that insulin production goes into overdrive when the pancreas is healing?
 
Where did you get the information on: "the meter that is said to give values about 10 mg/dl lower." The numerical difference gets smaller the lower the BG. The accuracy of human meters is only +/-20%. The numerical difference would get smaller the lower the BG. A 10 mg/dl at a BG of 45 is a big difference than the same 10 mg/dl difference at a BG of 150.
 
Larry, I read that on the link that Janet posted (a few comments up). And I forgot a few words in my sentence there! I meant to write that the survey seems to say that the Ascensia Contour gives values that are about 10 mg/dl lower *than other meters*. Sorry about the confusion there!
 
Genevieve, anything is possible, but I don't recall it ever being a problem (as long as the cat is getting enough food). How is he feeling? Happy? Playful? Depressed?

Larry, there did seem to be a bias for that meter; take a look at the graph. I have no clue what that is all about, but as long as people know that it might be an issue, it's not a problem.

-- Janet
 
Late reply, I'm sorry. My husband's job ended last week and I wasn't online as much for a few days.

I wasn't saying make his carbs really high - even the Elegant medleys would be a bit much early on. But we found that 1-2% of carbs seemed to make Yittle's blood sugar go up about 10 points, give or take. Feeding him anything in the 0-5% carbs range left him largely in the 50's-60's. Feeding him something 6-8% carbs only put him in the 70's. He had a flavor or two he liked that was 8-10%, they didn't make his blood sugar go over 100, and usually left it well under that. Frankly the few times he was sick, or injured, or having a bad day and I whipped out his favorite Elegant Medleys flavors which ran 10-14% carbs, his blood sugar stayed under 120, and often under 80 or so. I did save them for days when he was feeling unhappy or I really needed him to eat - he considered them growl-worthy.

When we went off the Lantus - during the cutting back period he'd frequently go borderline hypo - 40's etc. At those times we'd feed him 1/2 a can of the 12-14% carb Elegant Medleys with about 10 dry kibble on top (25% carb) and his blood sugar would only get into the 80's etc.

Every cat is different, if the 50's make you nervous even though they're an ok number then just add 1-3% to his carbs and see what happens. We typically fed Yittle in the 5-7% carb range and he did very well on it. We still however found it useful to keep everything from 0-14% on hand so we could change based on his preshot numbers. Once he was off the insulin a single meal higher or lower then that never really did very much to his numbers, maybe 20 points if that, but he was always well within normal range. (Higher meaning things 10-14% and moist).

Only time we had any issues was if he got into the forbidden kibble - once in awhile when the holdout civvies were eating he'd sneak a bite. We put down the food for them, waited for them and picked it back up afterwards but sometimes there would be a knock at the door, or a phone call, or you'd go to pee while they were eating and he'd sneak across the house and shove them off the bowl and steal a bite. He used to use it as a form of extortion actually. If he wanted food and we weren't moving fast enough he'd scout around all of the bowls to find even a single lost kibble. He would then pick it up in his mouth and drop it repeatedly into a bowl and we could hear the noise - which produced the desired effect. Us running across the house at breakneck speed screaming "We'll feed you, put the kibble down!!!". Once he even spit the damn kibble on my foot when I arrived in the room with his Fancy Feast... little furry terrorist.
 
Yay! I'm thinking those of us who have had the joy of ditching the insulin have all come here w/ the same question. :smile: Arnold was only on insulin for a month thanks to some heavy duty diet changes (all dry to all wet) and I freaked out when he was at normal levels b/c we'd had those normal levels on insulin and it was hypo and it was scary! We have to start testing again b/c we got a high at the vet yesterday, not the 500 he was originally dx w/ but enough w/ other sx to start testing again. Hopefully it's nothing! We moved Arnold from the Fancy Feast to Nutro Max, not sure what the carb content is but he was getting a really upset stomach from it. I think he has food alleriges or something.
 
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