Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acting?

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Cindy & Pets

Cindy & Pets

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I was wondering if it was possible since Tip has been dancing between the mid 200's to upper 400's, occasionally dipping down to around 140. Due to a recent scare of her dipping way low, I've been concerned about her going too low again. But I've been trying to get a few evening tests in around the +2-+4 marks and she hasn't been going low there. When should I be concerned about ketones? And are there any outright symptoms? I'm unsure if I'd be able to get to test her for ketones because of how difficult she is with letting me catch enough for a test.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

bump

I think the only way is to find a way to test. I could be wrong but this will bump up your thread for more eyes.
jeanne
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

helpful thread for ketones:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48383

I know for Sneakers I needed to test when I rebooted her dose back to 1u AND she decided to halve her food intake around the same time.

Test strips- Walmart or any pharmacy, about $7-8 for 50. Pretty easy to use, read the directions, stick in pee and pull out, count 15 seconds, and see where on the chart the little square lands.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

Alright, thanks, I'll have my grandpa pick some up later today when he gets my brother from work. My only problem, is I can never catch Tip when she's in the act unless I lock her in the bathroom overnight, and even then, I have to be quick and hope she doesn't care when I try. It's this and when eating is when she will stop if someone is near her.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

I got this suggestion from the board: When I'm testing Casey for ketones, I make little "well" out of Saran Wrap and tuck it in the litter, around where she usually goes. She never sees the Saran Wrap and usually just pees right into it. Since she doesn't cover her stuff, I then have a sample ready when I hear her jump out of the box. :-)

Good luck!
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

Alright, I'll see about doing that. It's especially scary because right now she isn't eating and she tested as just "Hi". Hopefully I can dress it up as soon as the chicken gets done with that, since it's her favorite. She also got in to the dry food this morning, so eek! I'l be testing her for ketones tonight when I get the sticks. Another question about ketones, how quickly do they occur? How much time does one have if their cat does have ketones?
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

Sneakers has always had negative to a trace of ketones and would go up to just under moderate if she got a fur shot or high stress (vet visit) as her ketones were the result of not enough insulin. Now, she is frequently negative or just starting to blush to trace at 15 seconds. Always, when she went to moderate it was because of the two things I mentioned and the very next morning she tested lower (always kept eating and drinking).

If the ketones read above moderate and Tip stops eating or drinking I would call the vet or the emergency/hospital and they can ask you the right questions as DKA can strike quickly, within a day or two which is why we need to be on top of it. A $2-4,000 hospital bill isn't something I can afford right now a $7 safety net sounds great to me.

If Tip is just reading ketones and still eats and drinks it could be the insulin isn't enough and you might want to raise the dose once you have tried out enough cycles (Sneakers it is 6 cycles- 3 days worth unless it stays darker).

This is of my own personal experience dealing with Sneakers and reading the information. Hope this helps.

heather
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

Alright, thanks. At the time of asking, it was just a "is it possible?" question for chances in the future when it'd be neccesary to know, like how it almost was tonight(see other thread, turned out it was likely chocolate-related issues, hopefully won't happen again), so, seeing that I likely wouldn't know, I got the strips. Now the hard part of learning how to do this without her freaking out and not going, since, I don't know why, just with this and eating, she'll imeedietly drop everything until I leave.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

it might be helpful to have an alternative box for testing for ketones. i stick a box lid inside of a garbage bag and have lentils in it. you can use aquarium rock, anything non-absorbent. we had a lot of laughing the other day about someone using styrofoam peanuts and how they stick to the cat's fur.

anyway, i have this secondary box and after punkin eats, put him in the laundry room with that box. he's pretty good about peeing and hopping out. then i can test the urine because it doesn't absorb.

when you test for ketones, time it exactly as the instructions indicate. the time matters, cuz the strips will continue changing color. ketones are very serious and anything beyond a trace needs a vet - i agree completely with hmjohnston who said get in immediately if you see much, because early treatment will save thousands of dollars and the cat's life.

i saw in your sig line that you're using N insulin. it isn't the best for cats. far better are lantus, levemir and Prozinc. all of them last longer in the body, which evens out the blood sugar and really helps the cat feel better. overall better blood sugar results from it, meaning far less chance of ketones. for what it's worth, thought i'd say it in case you don't know.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

I'm pretty sure I have an extra box from when Frankie(outdoor kitty) wasn't allowed to wander outside because he injured his leg in a fight. Also probably have some aquarium gravel from way back when. Unfortunately, my biggest problem is that she refuses to use the litterbox when I confine her, wish I didn't, but got her sister that needs to use the litterbox too. I've heard a saran wrap trick though that I might have to try.

Right, from reading the directions last night, I gathered that I need to follow them exactly.

Yeah, I know, currently my vet and I are working to see if it's best for her or not, since right now it's iffy on her mid-range numbers due to a lack of time on my part.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti



i would encourage you to print this article from the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery (2009) to your vet to discuss another insulin. Jacquie Rand is one of the foremost researchers on Feline Diabetes and has had several studies published in this professional journal.

The Lantus/Levemir Tight Reg forum follows the dosing guidelines based upon her research with Kristin Roomp that is the only insulin dosing protocol published in the J of FMS. This is the dosing protocol we follow:



her difficulties getting regulated may not be related to time on your part, but because of the nature of that insulin not giving long enough duration for a cat. cats have a very fast metabolism, which is why even though Lantus (glargine) is dosed only once a day in humans, it's given twice a day in cats.
 

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Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

I was just meaning time to get in mid-cycle numbers due to school, and, ohnestly, even I'd like to see what her numbers are like overall at all hours, rather than just amps, pmps, and a few between, mostly at night. Especially since from pmps and amps, that they're different numbers, like, she's been running higher in the am and running lower at the pm(minus last night, when she most likely got in to some chocolate, that threw her off), but right now can only kind of get mid-cycle numbers in the pm due to college work, etc. More numbers = better for me to make an informed decision, might be my sciency major doing that one.

But yes, I was thinking about printing those out if only to just discuss them to see if one might be better for her after more numbers come in. Figure since the vet is already iffy on me testing at home with a human meter due to articles read and other clients(we agreed for me to bring my meter in each time they test to run comparisons), that do that step then work on maybe changing insulins if it winds up that humulin N isn't right for her.

I was mostly wondering about the ketones for later so that should I even run in to a major problem where she isn't eating and running high, some possible alternate strategies. :)
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

so Tip hasn't had ketones yet, right? a cat that has had them needs more aggressive dosing and monitoring so they don't come back. they seem to be more prone to returning on a cat that's had them before.

the recipe for ketones is not enough food + not enough insulin + infection.

the preventative is to not allow that equation to happen. high numbers alone won't cause ketones, but if they develop some kind of infection and stop eating, then the problems come up. if you watch for those factors, that would help.

i can't help you at all with dosing for Humulin N. there are people who have had experience with it - if you want some suggestions on it, edit the subject line of your first post in this thread to ask for "help with Humulin N dosing" or something like that. that'll get the right people to look at your spreadsheet and maybe have some suggestions for you.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

No, so far it seems she hasn't, though she's come close once. She had 2 parts of it yesterday night from ingesting chocolate, but I believe I brought her down before anything could come of it.

Naw, wasn't really looking for help on humulin N dosing. Just what all I should look out for with ketones. Better to be prepared way ahead of time than researching last minute.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

what do you mean when you say "she had 2 parts of it yesterday from eating chocolate?"

are you talking about measuring glucose on the urine test sticks or ketones? chocolate wouldn't cause ketones.
 
Re: Possible to see if cat has ketones from how they're acti

Sorry, I meant the not eating and lack of insulin, just no infection that's a recipe for ketones.
 
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