PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eyes

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totallybeachin

totallybeachin

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I thought today was going to be a good day.
Callie Mae amps 250, shot .5
She is back to not wanting to eat. Tried a new brand of food last night, Fancy Feast. She ate the whole can. A fish variety. I cut those out mostly by what I read here about the cans and the phos. but she likes fish, so I thought it was ok since she hadn't had any in a while. Except fr the Albacore tuna she ate recently because she wouldn't eat. She had no problem with that either.
Just good 'ol chicken for breakfast. She wasn't having it.
her + 4 is 162
Just tested.

Rocky,
amps 184
I'm thinking YEA Rocky. FINALLY!!
Waited 30 minutes, tested again
436. What? They can't be right. Tested him again 442.
I gave him .75 to see how he would do on it today.

So, I was sitting here reading, trying to figure out if I had some kind of meter flukes or what. I have had a couple instances as of late with wonky readings.

Well, I read something somewhere that talked about a control solution or something. Can't remember exactly what I read, since I started looking into that.

Well, I had NO IDEA I needed to use a solution on my meter before I started using it. It didn't come with a solution. Why would they sell you something that you can't even use until you receive a solution IN THE MAIL?

At any rate, here I sit angry, confused, sad and just plain dumb struck.
All this time, I have been injecting insulin based on numbers I am getting from a meter that isn't even *calibrated* or whatever with a solution I have to get in the mail.

I don't know what to do now. :cry:
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

The Walmart Relion's don't have a control solution, trust me, I spent 6 months looking for it, calling around for it, asking pharmacy dummies, and getting put off, etc.

Finally I went to the pharmacy and demanded that she give me an answer about buying the solution. She made a phone call and came back with this, The Relion does not have a control solution, it is good for 5000 tests and then it's done and you need to buy a new one.

So no, you are not an idiot.
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

I phoned the number in the Relion Micro brochure. They promised to send the next day, but said I didn't need it as it was calibrated. I did finally get the promised test solution a month later (when Maisey was OTJ). When I get home I can see if it's past it's expired date. When I berated them for not having it in the box or available in the store they said it had a very short shelf life.
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

Well, I that's clears things up then?
They don't have/need it.
They send it in a month!
Well, glad I got that taken care of and out of the way. :lol:

I actually ordered it through the (ReliOn) website that I found when doing a search about it.
Went and dug the "instruction manual" out of the storage box, and they have it listed in there to "Perform a control solution test before testing with the ReliOn Confirm blood glucose meter for the first time."

Regardless, I have a lot more faith and trust in you guys that you know what you are doing.
So, I'm not an idiot. At least not for that! ;-)

Which brings me back to wonder how I keep getting such weird, wonky results sometimes.

Also, just ran down to the vet's office to pick up some Ff. My little darling just couldn't resist!
I am going to have a look around in her mouth later to see if any thing looks *off* in there. Anything in particular I should pay special attention to?

I have a sneaking suspicion that I won't find anything. She manages to eat Starkist Albacore white tuna chunks just fine. And she manages to eat treats just fine, and she managed to eat the fishy flavor FF last night just fine. But still, I would rather be safe than sorry.
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

While I'm certainly not defending WalMart, I did call and got the control solution and they said the reason they don't sell it with the meters is b/c of its short shelf-life. It did take almost 2 weeks to get it in the mail, but when I used it, it showed my meter to be OK.
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

I don't get it.
Shouldn't I see lower numbers at nadir?
Rocky was at 332 at +6. At +4, he was at 232.
What could be going wrong?
What am I not doing?
Surely the dose wasn't to much?
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

Nadirs and onsets vary. Yes, In a "perfect world" the nadir would be at +6-- so there could be a perfect curve. But, in reality, the nadir occurs between +4 and +8. So, it appears that today Rocky had an early nadir.

It's okay--- you have done nothing wrong!!!
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

Ok, so Rocky hasn't been doing so good today.
Maybe the .75u was to much?
Should I go back to .5 or try the .6 even though there isn't much difference, or should I just stick with the .75 for a couple cycles for him to get used to it?
He's been purple the last 2 checks.
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

If I am right, you don't test and shoot until 8:00ish. If that is the case, I would ask the group then for help. Robin or Joanna will probably be on by then and can help you.

But, you have an inverse curve today-- which indicates too much insulin. It appears that you need to lower your dose. But, wait and follow their advice!
 
Re: 6/29 Callie Mae & Rocky-I'm an idiot

Thanks.
Will do.

Callie Mae ate her "snack" without having any Ff added.
Yea!

Never did hear back on whether there was any thing specific I should look for in her mouth.
I am sure I would notice something obvious, but I was just curious if there was maybe something that perhaps wouldn't be obvious that I should look for.
 
Re: 6/29 PM dosing advice for Rocky

I changed my thread title to possibly get some eyes on this.
Rocky has been in the purple's since mid-cycle.
Was the .75 to much maybe?
Should I go back to .5 or should I try .6?
The .5 dose didn't seem to do much for him and .1 doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference, but who knows. Any suggestions.
I am ready to shoot at 8:00 and his ps number is 317.
 
Re: 6/29 PM dosing advice for Rocky

Gosh, I'm no dosing expert....wish someone else was on!
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

It always seems nuts to cut back when they have higher #'s but I think I agree with Kim. But, do what you're comfortable with.
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Well, I went with .6.
Will have to see what the Monday night quarterbacks think. :lol:
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

I'm sticking with my initial thoughts.

It never curved back down, it continued to rise-- so maybe it isn't inverse. But, it looks like he did better on Less!
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

It's so hard to figure them out....really like a guessing game!
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

It could be that the .75 was too strong on the lower ps...
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Well, I really have no idea.
It would seem that I should have some idea by now, but this is still very much a guessing game for me.
None of the data seems to be *clicking* in my head.
I see a bunch of numbers, and all the colors of the rainbow, but nothing really means anything to me.
It seems like every shot I give him, I get weird data. I don't see any kind of pattern emerging. Unless I am missing something. (Not surprising..... :lol: )
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Sssshhhhh.... Don't say rainbow... It makes Sue really nervous!!!!


(ha-- I accidentally put a rainbow in the topic line one night...... Wheew... Don't do it. I'm so scared of rainbows , I probably will never watch the Wizard of Oz again!)
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

:lol: :lol: :lol: @ Kim.

I will DEFINITELY watch out for that.
Does that make you like those people that are afraid of clowns? :lol:
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Hey, catchy title!!!! I usually start at the bottom of the list and work my way up, but I just could NOT resist the sales pitch, LOL! Of course now I haven't read anything yet though. Do you still need help? I will go start reading up on today's events.
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Yep, that looks inverse to me too.

I like the .6u.

You guys are too funny. :-D
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

OK, deep breaths! :mrgreen:

totallybeachin said:
She is back to not wanting to eat.

Rocky,
amps 184
I'm thinking YEA Rocky. FINALLY!!
Waited 30 minutes, tested again
436. What? They can't be right. Tested him again 442.

Well, I read something somewhere that talked about a control solution or something. Can't remember exactly what I read, since I started looking into that.
Click to expand...

The not eating is definitely worrisome. Do think it's just finicky-ness? Or Rocky stress? There are so many health problems that can lead to that, and with diabetes not eating can cause other problems. I think you mentioned before that vet costs are an issue, so I guess I would keep a close eye on it, not sure what else to suggest, but it certainly worries me. nailbite_smile

For Rocky's numbers, it could be the 1st reading was an error, but it could actually be correct. PZI is known for dramatic poop-out. I saw Bix go from blues to blacks in 1/2 hour when he was in liver training, from I think +11.5 to +12. It can be like that. If he is not quite used to the blues yet, that is textbook liver training example in action. He hasn't done that too much on other blues though, but who knows.

Control solution is just to test that your meter & strips are working well, it's not really needed. I used to test each new batch of strips as recommended, until I found out that although my meter came with a bottle of solution, it expired 30 days after opened, and cost something like $10 to buy a new one, plus losing a test strip out of every new vial of 25! So I didn't bother after that. I'm sure it's a good idea in principal, but in reality :?

Still catching up, brb!
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

I have no idea on the dose either, he is all over the map! Try something like you did, gather data, see where it goes.

When looking in Callie's mouth, you want to look for what's left of your fingers and then retrieve that. :lol: I have no idea what to look for b/c those kind of attempts have never gone too well in my house, LOL!

Back to Rocky though, generally when you get a PS like this morning that is lower than the mid-cycle check you have, that can be a sign the dose was too high. Now that might not be the case since he still could have dropped a bit after the +4 last night, but the idea when you see a lower PS like that (i.e. lower than the mid-cycle) is it could be a late drop due to a dose too high. I probably would not have raised the dose in that case, although I'm not sure if would have actually lowered it since you already tried 0.4.

No biggie though, it generally takes a certain amount of trial & error until you get things working well. Don't expect he will see beautiful numbers in the first few weeks - might happen, but I would adjust your expectations so that it isn't upsetting if it doesn't happen. Typically regulation takes several weeks or months.
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
I have no idea on the dose either, he is all over the map! Try something like you did, gather data, see where it goes.

When looking in Callie's mouth, you want to look for what's left of your fingers and then retrieve that. :lol: I have no idea what to look for b/c those kind of attempts have never gone too well in my house, LOL!

Back to Rocky though, generally when you get a PS like this morning that is lower than the mid-cycle check you have, that can be a sign the dose was too high. Now that might not be the case since he still could have dropped a bit after the +4 last night, but the idea when you see a lower PS like that (i.e. lower than the mid-cycle) is it could be a late drop due to a dose too high. I probably would not have raised the dose in that case, although I'm not sure if would have actually lowered it since you already tried 0.4.

No biggie though, it generally takes a certain amount of trial & error until you get things working well. Don't expect he will see beautiful numbers in the first few weeks - might happen, but I would adjust your expectations so that it isn't upsetting if it doesn't happen. Typically regulation takes several weeks or months.
Click to expand...

Ahh.
Thanks for explaining it like that. I keep looking at the numbers, but embarrassingly enough, I haven't the slightest idea how I am supposed to use the data. Now it makes sense. I know I want to to see green and blue,.....lol, but after that.....I just didn't know how to digest the information.
I guess I just didn't realize also, that it takes a little time to get the data required to REALLY see how it all goes. I know ECID, but with Callie Mae, she went into the blues so quickly, I only had to fine tune her enough to get her in the greens and she was helping me right along.
Maybe with Rocky, I should have just stayed on .4u at the very beginning for a few cycles and worked up in increments long enough to see each dose over a period of days. Maybe it would have helped his body a little more along the way as well, by allowing him to get used to the insulin.
Who knows how long he has been living with this disease and his organs haven't been working properly.
Now I feel like I have a *plan*, so to speak.

Callie Mae, I just don't know for ~absolute~ sure about her eating. I want to ~think~ it is stress induced, because everything was going perfect for us, until Rocky showed up. That, and the fact she has no problem at all wanting to scarf down the tuna and fishy foods, her treats, and now, I put the opened pouch of Flortifora under her nose so she could smell it before I put on on her food, and she acted the same as she does when I am giving her a salmon treat. She went nuts. As soon as it was on her food, bam, it disappeared! :lol:

On the other hand, I also know there is always the possibility that something could be wrong. As long as I can keep her eating and maybe get her numbers back down, I am just going to keep an eye on her for a few more days and have a look around in her mouth, just to see if I notice anything there. I did an image search on google, and I think I know how to take a look. I just read a cat should have a dental by the time they are 4, and she has never had one. She is 8.
If I get her numbers back down, maybe she will start eating on her own again. When she eats, her numbers look good. I had her eating all day, well not ALL day, but on her "normal" schedule and she has been surfin' the blues all day. She did not receive any insulin this pm, and at +3, she is 127
If something doesn't give in a few days, I will just have to *readjust* the finances, and get her to the Dr. I'll go without groceries before I allow something to happen! :o (Don't tell DH. He likes to eat.. :lol: )

what's that they say about us "cat people" that eat cat food??
haha_smiley haha_smiley
 
Re: PM dose for Rocky-6/29 thread, changed title to grab eye

Basically with PZI you want to see a U-curve, where the PSs are higher and the mid-cycle is the lowest number. Anything that doesn't follow that pattern means the dose is either too high or too low. Flat typically means the dose is too low, unless it is a rebound thing, which is high flat numbers. Anything that is inverse, or if it slopes down to a lower PS at the end of the cycle, generally means the dose is too high. We've seen some wonkiness though with ProZinc, so some days I am starting to wonder if it is that simple any more. I'm not sure. But anyhow, that's the general concept.

Start Low Go Slow is the approach we generally recommend people start with, although you can do a lot of other things with PZI. With that, you typically start at 1u BID, and move up every few days (if needed) in increments of either 0.2 or 0.5 depending on how bad their numbers are and if you are seeing any progress.

Since both Callie & Rocky have looked to be low dose kitties (responding to doses under 1u), that's why they have jumped right into the fine-tuning stage and you haven't had much of the sort of dose finding phase where they often sit in higher numbers for a while as you gradually increase the dose.

There is a TON of info and good links if you like to read up about stuff. There's the PZI sticky up top, and a lot of stuff in the Health Links forum (or maybe it's Reference or something like that), and I learned a lot too from reading the stickies on the forums of the other insulins. Not everything can be applied across the board, but there are a lot of things that are common to all the insulins, and some of them have links to things that also include PZI info. It can be a bit overwhelming though the way it is organized right now with so many stickies. Also if you go to the main site, felinediabetes.com, there is lots of good info there, and on the Wiki. There is stuff around about how to interpret curves, what the different numbers mean, etc.
 
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