Please help we are at our wit’s end

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FMHSSLP

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Hello, my wife and I have a newly diagnosed kiddo and need help.

When we first took him in his sugar was 615. Since then we were recommended by the vet to dose him Semglee (insulin glargine) pens at 2 units twice daily and have been doing so almost perfectly every 12 hours. His sugars have never gone under 298 and we test every few days and at various times during the day.

Typically he has been running about 300-350 but recently has gone back up to 415 on his latest test.

We switched him to all diabetic glycemic control food and upon reading stories here switched him to only glycemic control wet food, removing the dry.

He will occasionally eat the freeze dried chicken pieces and sometimes a jar of ham baby food.

He has a moderate appetite but lost about 30% of his weight in the several months prior to diagnosis, seems to be stabilized now.

So my question is, should we increase his insulin? Or what’s next? Every time we get a sugar reading in the 300-400’s it’s just so devastating. His lowest this month was the 298.

Thank you in advance for any help.
 
Hello,

Welcome to the forum!

I'm still new here so I can't make any recommendations on what you should do with insulin dosing, I would wait until someone with more experience answers your questions. They will need to know a few more details to help though. I'm sure they willl have more questions, but I know they will need this information for sure before they can help with recommendations.

When was he diagnosed?
How are you testing? As in what glucometer do you use, when specifically you are testing relative to when he gets his doses.
When and how often are you feeding him?

I have a newly diagnosed cat as well, and he had sugar readings in the 600s too; his highest was 641! This was at the end of November, and I switched him over to wet food after two weeks of insulin shots. I was still getting numbers in the 400s after over a month on insulin, which was disappointing. I am just now having numbers regularly under 200 with 3 units. Every cat is different though, I started at 1 unit and had to increase his dose twice under vet (and forum) recommendation.

I can't give insulin dose recommendations, I will however, give recommendations on how to best use this incredibly helpful forum to get the answers you want.

This post is in the Community & Off Topic forum, the Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum) is where you can ask for advice about diabetic cat health. So I think you should make a post there instead, and include the information I asked for above when you do.

I recommend you read through this post to learn more about this forum and how to use it: HOW-TO USE THE FDMB: The Basics

Before you post in the Main Forum, you should read through this post to know what to include: NEW? HOW YOU CAN HELP US HELP YOU!

You should also make a spreadsheet to keep track of all you BG readings. There is already a template and detailed instructions found here: HOW TO CREATE A SPREADSHEET

It is a lot of reading, it can be a little overwhelming at first, but this forum is an incredibly valuable resource when you know how to use it. So I would read through these posts, make a new post with your questions, and go from there.

I know this isn't exactly the answers to your questions, but hopefully this helps!
 
What are the ingredients in the ham baby food? Any sugar? We fed both our sugar cats Temptation treats until we found out they all contain sugar. Not sure if that's the case now. I have a pack here but no magnifying glass. :blackeye:
 
Thank you both for posting, the ham baby food seems to be at 11% carbs of total calories in the jar.

We use one of the glucometers that says you can use for cats called Alphatrack 3.

I’ll try to repost over at the health forum and go from there but I’ll utilize all the resources you shared as well, thank you both! He’s back up to 619 today which makes no sense to us.
 
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I've moved your post over to the Feline Health forum.

You can actually use human blood glucose meters for cats too, that's what everyone did before the Alphatrak's were invented and heavily marketed to vets. Our dosing methods are also designed for human meters. You can continue to use your AT 3 here, just letting you know it's an option if the price of the test strips becomes a burden.

A couple questions. First, what is your kitty's name? What brand food is he eating now? Most people here feed low carb food (under 10% carbs) that is commercially available.

Sydney gave you some great links. You'll notice that most of us have a spreadsheet (SS) of our cat's blood sugar numbers. We really need to see the data to help you. How to build that spreadsheet is in one of those links above.
 
As Wendy noted, you don't need to feed your cat a prescription diabetic diet. In fact, many of the brands of diabetic food are not particularly low in carbohydrates. This is a chart that contains nutritional information on most of the canned foods that are available in the US. The chart lists the carbohydrates. You want food that is under 10% carbs although, most member feed their cats a food that's in the neighborhood of 5% carbs.
 
Okay thank you all again. We contacted the vet who had us give him 3 units of the Semglee this morning. Retested and he is back up to the 619 I referenced. We called her again and she is having us go pick up Novolin N and use 4 units STAT to get his sugar down to a reasonable level. She’s worried his last pen was not a good one, as his numbers started climbing shortly after we changed pens.

He thankfully doesn’t seem to smell like fruit or nail polish so she isn’t worried about keto yet but wants his BG down asap. He (his name is Slappy), seems fine and oblivious to why we are so concerned so that’s been nice. I’m working on the spreadsheet and it isn’t the greatest since I didn’t quite know what to record the last month but hopefully it helps a bit.

He won’t produce blood readily on his ears so we have to prick him on his toes and he hates it but we understand it’s necessary. Tried a CGM but the ornery little guy tried to chew it off so we opted not to try that again for now.
 
Please do not get Novolin N. It is not a good insulin for cats. Semglee (glargine generic) is much better. This paper only suggests Lantus (glargines) and Prozinc for cats:(2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats

Have you been getting any tests between the two shots of the day? I only see the AM before shot test values. We determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose takes the cat and I'm worried he's going really low then doing what we call bouncing. Here is the definition:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

We typically start cats at closer to 1 unit, depending on size of cat and diet and dosing method used. It's possible you are overdosing your cat. Giving N to your cat if he's bouncing will only make things worse. If he is bouncing, then those high numbers are temporary. Please try getting a test 4-7 hours after the shot when you can.
 
Hello, thank you for the reply. I’m sorry, I’ll update the spreadsheet as I don’t think I filled it out correctly. Apologies, I’ll get it updated ASAP.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum. please follow Wendy’s advice and don’t give the Novolin N insulin
Novolin N is a totally unsuitable insulin for cats and a dose of 4 units of it would most likely drop Slappy’s blood glucose dramatically.
I would also look at a more suitable food than the prescription food the vet recommended. There is nothing special about that food except the price. Wendy has given you a chart to look at.
I’m going to ask @Bandit's Mom to have a look at your spreadsheet and maybe tweak it a bit as there are no colours in it.
If you can get some tests in somewhere between +4 and +7 in most cycles, that would be helpful as semglee dosing is based on the nadir not the preshot.:)
Keep posting and asking lots of questions, we are more than happy to answer them.
 
Are you using
U100, 3/10 ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings for Glargine ?
If you are only using the pen you can only adjust the dose by whole units.
We adjust the doses by 0.25 units



Can you please fill out your signature tap on this link
It's at the end of everyone's post
It's info we need about Slappy
HOW YOU CAN HELP US HELP YOU!

@FMHSSLP
 
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Is the vet wanting you to replace the Semglee with Novolin or give the Novolin in addition to Semglee?

One bit of information. It takes Semglee about 5 - 7 days for the initial dose to stabilize. Semglee is a type of insulin that needs to build up in your cat's system so it takes a little while for it to accumulate. Also, it takes up to 3 days for any new dose to stabilize. While this differs from other types of insulin, it is this feature (the insulin depot) that causes Semglee to be gentler and have a longer duration. It also means that doses overlap.

If your vet is suggesting a switch, Novolin acts quickly and is harsh. It can "crush" blood glucose numbers. It also does not have a 12-hour duration so you see wild swings in numbers -- high numbers at shot time and fast drops during the cycle. In addition, Novolin is no longer recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of feline diabetes due to its shorter duration. If your vet is suggesting using the Novolin in addition to Semglee, this is an advanced approach to managing your cat's diabetes. We have member with experience doing this and if it's what your vet is recommending, I would want to have one of those members coaching you. It's very easy to get into trouble with using a fast acting insulin to boost Semglee.
 
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