Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be starving

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Tigresseyes

Member Since 2013
My kitty ziggy is 5 years old diagnosed with pancreatitis and diabetes January 2013
Very difficult to get him regulated I thought it was with 4 units of insulin of lantis then they lowered him to 3 units about 4 months ago he started having seizures they then lowered his lantis units to two units twice a day since that thank God he has had no more seizures but is now acting like he is starving eating and wanting more and drinking excess amounts of water and urinating huge massive amounts in the little box

Please someone help I don't know what is wrong but know something is not right

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thank you all

Tamara and ziggy
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Hi Tamara

Welcome to FDMB.

What are you feeding and how much?

Do you home test the blood glucose?

Are you testing his urine for ketones and/or glucose?

Lantus is a good insulin, however, dose changes should be made in smaller amounts of 0.25 units to 0.5 units. Chances are his ideal dose may be somewhere between 2 and 3 units and that is why is drinking and peeing so much. Do you have syringes with half unit markings?
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Hi Tamara,

How much does Ziggy eat? What kind of food? Unregulated diabetics are literally starving as their bodies are not processing food well.

The best thing you can do to figure this put is to learn to test Ziggy at home so you can see exactly how the insulin is working, and whether the amount you are dosing is safe. We have taught hundreds of people how to test. Can we help you?
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Tamara sent me this message and I wanted to reply on the forum so we could get more input:


He eats half a can of grain free natural food in the am with injection and half a can at night the size is the size of a small fancy feast and 1/4 cup of dry I used to not measure the amounts as of 6 months ago also as of one month ago I had him on the prescribed vet diabetic crunchy but I ran out on a weekend and had to get h crunchies I got a natural brand but it says it's for weight loss and or has fewer calories I thought that might be good perhaps less sugar he still gets 1/4 cup of crunches of that its only been three weeks and its odd but that seems to be since he's been drinking more so you think it has to do with his crunchies

I am unsure but yes please help with insight on reading his sugar at home I thought it may not have to be done but do you feel it's for the best

Yes, any amount of dry food can raise the numbers. A vet explains why wet low carb food is best here: www.catinfo.org. BUT you want to be testing before changing from dry to wet. My cat went down 100 points overnight when we switched. If we had given him his usual dose, he would have hypoed. Are in the US or outside? (food brands vary)

I would definitely learn to hometest. It's the best way to keep him safe. Here is some info on hometesting:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287




If he were
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

A decent, low cost, low carb food is Friskies canned pates.

For tons of good feline nutrition info, including a recipe for raw food, see Cat Info.

Reminder:
Per the board policy, all advising needs to be done in posts on the board, not through private messages. Click Post Reply in the lower left of the screen to post a response, rather than pm to a person.
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Dear Tamara,

all that others have said above is true. Please please do not let your Ziggy feel like he's starving! Feed more but, perhaps, more frequent meals. A healing pancreas does best on small frequent meals. Friskies pates are great but do be careful with any diet changes & insulin because, as explained above, a switch to all low carb wet diet & insulin could drop Ziggy's blood glucose quite low. Is his pancreatitis over now?

Best of luck,
Sophie
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Hi Ziggy's mom-
So Ziggy is only basically getting a total of one small can of food a day w/ 1/4 c dry? I don't know Ziggys' weight, but IMO that is not enough food, much less for a unregulated diabetic cat. As others said, get him off the dry food, feed him as much canned food as he wants, several small meals a day, if he is acting like he is starving, because he is.
I know you love your little guy and want to do what's best for him. Dry food can raise their glucose, if you get him off the dry, you may see a big difference. But you need to test his sugar, especially if you stop the dry, as he may require less insulin.
Please check out the links that have been provided on food and home testing. There is a wealth of information here, and lots of folks to help you. :smile:
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

And yes his pancreatis has been wonderful no flare ups of any sort in over 6 months!!

So happy for that
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Are you hometesting? That is the only accurate way to determine how well your current dose is working. You may have missed your optimal dose and currently are either giving too much or too little insulin. Both would leave a cat unregulated.

I agree, right now you need to be feeding Ziggy more food. A canned or raw low carb/high protein diet works best.
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

I still haven't seen a post specific on how do you know when to change lower because of his numbers no I have not home tested yet but will begin starting tonight after I get the meter but I have no guidelines to go by and I will begin feeding him more canned food low carb

Does anyone know where a post is listed about a guide for giving injections and how much

I don't believe I need to go more because with 3 ubits if lantus ziggy was having seizures he is now at 2 units I think perhaps he needs to be lowered to 1 but how do I know to do that or not or to even inject at all

Please help
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

I'm not a lantus user, but I can tell you they usually advise people to not shoot if under 200 until you have more data on how a dose affects them. Make sure your 'pre-shot' test is fasting (no food for two hours prior to test) so the numbers are not influenced by food. You can leave food out all the time if you like, and just take it up a couple hours before test /shot time.

Edit to add: You don't need to take food away for two hours prior if you are testing mid-cycle, just for the pre-shot ones. (I most often see recommended 4x tests per day, 2x just before the shot, and somewhere near the nadir -typically 6ish hours- or just before bed for the pm cycle depending on your schedule)
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Human meters will read on a slightly different scale than her lab instrumets. Its like reading temperature in Celcius vs Fahrenheit. Once you have reference values for understanding the numbers, it isn't a problem.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If on insulin, treat as if HYPO
- If on insulin, and at nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.
- If not on insulin, can be normal number.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If on insulin and before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- If on insulin and at nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

= 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot limit for ProZinc, PZI, or other non-depot insulins

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 240 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak} - Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine. (Merck Veterinary Manual gives 240 mg/dL for cats, using a lab)
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Dear Tamara,
some two years ago, I almost killed my Pudge by following my vet's advice. Once my daughter found this board, everything changed for the better! My Pudge is now OTJ & I don't feel I'm going nuts! You'll do just fine! Your heart was & is in the right place. I knew how tough it must have been for you to be thinking Ziggy is going hungry. Members here are wonderful, so are you!
Best wishes,
Sophie
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

I just want to emphasize what Sue & Oliver posted. Please be careful if you're doing a food change and not yet home testing!! The food change alone can cause a significant drop in numbers which means Ziggy might not need as much insulin and you don't want to overdose. Hang in in there. This board is the best place you can be for Ziggy. :YMHUG:
 
Re: Please help need advice on dosage my cat seems 2 be star

Did you get the meter yet? We can give a shopping list if not.

I would reduce to 1 unit anyway if you don't have the meter -better safe than sorry

Wendy
 
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