Please clarify carb % for food.

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JoM

JoM

Member Since 2023
Hi, could someone please confirm if I should look at the "as fed" carb % or the "dry matter" carb % when looking for foods for my cat. When dealing with CKD, we always looked at DM %, mostly for phosphorous, but Ive seen here people mentioning going by the "as fed" % for carbs. Wouldnt the DM % be the "true" %? Im a bit confused here.
 
@JoM
That always confused me too, but I did a search on our site, up top do you see where it says search upper right hand corner and typed in as fed or dry matter and found this posted by one of our moderators and copied it


You want the "as fed" values. If you've been using the food chart from the Feline Nutrition (Dr. Pierson's) website, the carb percentages there are based on the "as fed" values.

But I'll tag a few members to be sure
@Wendy&Neko
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
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You can convert DMB to As-Fed. I already linked the post for you that explains how to do it.

 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can convert DMB to As-Fed. I already linked the post for you that explains how to do it.

  • How to Calculate the Nutrient Content of Commercial Cat Foods
    • Dr. Lisa's Cat Food Data Base Calculator - Type in the percentages of minimum protein, maximum fat, maximum carbs, and maximum phosphorus you're looking for. You also have the option to choose a specific cat food company. This tool will automatically list the cat foods from the Food Chart created by Lisa Pierson DVM list that meet your specifications.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I use this page for the calculator. Online Calculators – Feline Nutrition Center Thats not what I was asking. I did find the food I fed her (Merrick Purrfect Bistro Duck) on the Dr. Lisa's page you linked to and it says the Carbs are 5 %. What I wanted to know is if the carb result Im going for (when i try to find the carb content in the food) is "as fed" (which is entering the amounts off the label into the carb calculator and getting the carb result), or do i need to convert again with the dry matter calculator. Sorry if Im not explaining this very well. On the CKD site we always used the dry matter calculator to find the phosphorus %. Im just a little confused about using the as fed % rather than the DM %. I did see something on Dr. Lisas page that said she removed the DM content in the new list. Im just wondering why. If we just go by 'as fed", then thats easy, although I still dont know how some of these sites where im finding the carb content for this food is able to calculate it, since there is no ASH listed on the label.
Im probably making this more confusing, sorry.
 
The numbers on the can of cat food are typically the guaranteed analysis. If the can or company website gives minimum or maximum values, those are the guaranteed analysis numbers. It gives the manufacturer some wiggle room for different batches of food. "As fed" are more accurate and what the carbohydrate (or other values) should be based on. For who knows what reason, the actual nutritional "as fed" values do not have to be listed. In most cases, the manufacturers don't have to give the DM% either. Dr. Lisa's chart involved her contacting the manufacturers for the as fed values and then doing the calculations.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
The numbers on the can of cat food are typically the guaranteed analysis. If the can or company website gives minimum or maximum values, those are the guaranteed analysis numbers. It gives the manufacturer some wiggle room for different batches of food. "As fed" are more accurate and what the carbohydrate (or other values) should be based on. For who knows what reason, the actual nutritional "as fed" values do not have to be listed. In most cases, the manufacturers don't have to give the DM% either. Dr. Lisa's chart involved her contacting the manufacturers for the as fed values and then doing the calculations.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Ok so I go by the %'s on the can then. I still have to put them all into the carb calculator, since no cans Ive found list carbs. But I dont have to worry about DM, got it.
 
You can put the percentages on the can/website into a carb calculator but you need to know that it is not entirely accurate. You will have an estimate. Only the "as fed" values will give you the real numbers.

The only issue with the canned DM is that the ingredients are not wonderful. You are not getting what you're paying for. You can spend the same money on a human grade cat food made with muscle meat versus the DM where the first ingredient is meat by-products.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
You can put the percentages on the can/website into a carb calculator but you need to know that it is not entirely accurate. You will have an estimate. Only the "as fed" values will give you the real numbers.

The only issue with the canned DM is that the ingredients are not wonderful. You are not getting what you're paying for. You can spend the same money on a human grade cat food made with muscle meat versus the DM where the first ingredient is meat by-products.
Click to expand...
Im not sure what you mean by canned DM. I was referring to Dry Matter (DM) How do I figure out "as fed" amounts then.
 
The description of how to convert is in the post called Calculation %Calories from Carbs that I linked in post #3.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The description of how to convert is in the post called Calculation %Calories from Carbs that I linked in post #3.
Click to expand...
Thanks. All this is making my head spin, lol. I guess I'll just stick with Lisa's chart although its really out of date. It would be nice if there was one that was updated.
 
JoM said:
Hi, could someone please confirm if I should look at the "as fed" carb % or the "dry matter" carb % when looking for foods for my cat. When dealing with CKD, we always looked at DM %, mostly for phosphorous, but Ive seen here people mentioning going by the "as fed" % for carbs. Wouldnt the DM % be the "true" %? Im a bit confused here.
Click to expand...

Hi Jo,
The issue of carbs confuses a lot of people. You are not alone in that... :bighug:

Phosphorous is always calculated on a dry matter (DM) basis for comparison.
But we compare carb content here on a 'percentage of calories' basis, not DM, as that is more useful when it comes to carbs.

To do a reasonable carb calculation we need to know the 'average' or 'typical' nutritional content of the food. However, US cat foods usually only show the 'guaranteed analysis' data, and that is just the minimum/maximum guaranteed values for protein, fat, moisture, etc, which isn't terribly helpful for doing a carb calculation with.

Sometimes the 'average' or 'typical' nutritional content will be shown on the manufacturer's website. This can have different names but will be something like 'typical analysis', or maybe 'analytical constituents', depending on what country we're in.
If it's not on the website then it may be necessary to contact the manufacturer and ask for the current data. Some manufacturers are very helpful, some aren't.
It does not matter if the typical/average data is given as dry matter (DM) or as 'as fed' (as it comes out of the tin/pouch). This is because water has no calories, and so doesn't affect the balance of the macronutrients - protein, fat, and carbohydrate.

If you can get the data then you use this super easy online calculator to do the calculation for you (just ignore the fact that it is called a 'guaranteed analysis converter', the calculation formula is fine):
https://balance.it/convert

If you can't get the typical/average values, and are stuck with 'guaranteed analysis' data, then you can do a calculation with that, but it will not be as accurate.
So, it's also useful to scan the ingredients list for carb sources, and then decide whether you think the food is worth taking a punt on.
Ultimately, 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'. And what matters is how the food affects our own cat's blood glucose levels. If we can hometest blood glucose then we can often 'see' the effect of any food on our cat's BG.

Hoping this helps... :bighug:

Eliz
 
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Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Jo,
The issue of carbs confuses a lot of people. You are not alone in that... :bighug:

Phosphorous is always calculated on a dry matter (DM) basis for comparison.
But we compare carb content here on a 'percentage of calories' basis, not DM, as that is more useful when it comes to carbs.

To do a reasonable carb calculation we need to know the 'average' or 'typical' nutritional content of the food. However, US cat foods usually only show the 'guaranteed analysis' data, and that is just the minimum/maximum guaranteed values for protein, fat, moisture, etc, which isn't terribly helpful for doing a carb calculation with.

Sometimes the 'average' or 'typical' nutritional content will be shown on the manufacturer's website. This can have different names but will be something like 'typical analysis', or maybe 'analytical constituents', depending on what country we're in.
If it's not on the website then it may be necessary to contact the manufacturer and ask for the current data. Some manufacturers are very helpful, some aren't.
It does not matter if the typical/average data is given as dry matter (DM) or as 'as fed' (as it comes out of the tin/pouch). This is because water has no calories, and so doesn't affect the balance of the macronutrients - protein, fat, and carbohydrate.

If you can get the data then you use this super easy online calculator to do the calculation for you (just ignore the fact that it is called a 'guaranteed analysis converter', the calculation formula is fine):
https://balance.it/convert

If you can't get the typical/average values, and are stuck with 'guaranteed analysis' data, then you can do a calculation with that, but it will not be as accurate.
So, it's also useful to scan the ingredients list for carb sources, and then decide whether you think the food is worth taking a punt on.
Ultimately, 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'. And what matters is how the food affects our own cat's blood glucose levels. If we can hometest blood glucose then we can often 'see' the effect of any food on our cat's BG.

Hoping this helps... :bighug:

Eliz
Click to expand...
Thank you this detailed information. Yes, its pretty confusing. I guess I'll just stick with the lists that are already in place. Ive discovered that she loves Weruva. i had a bunch left from another cat who passed and it seemed no one wanted it, but i just tried some yesterday and today and she seems to love it now. Its supposedly low carbs, although her numbers are a bit higher today so not sure what to make of that. The two ive fed her are Weruva Press Your Dinner can, and Weruva Jeopurrdy Licious pouch. Weruva has all the carb values on their website in ME, As Fed and Dry Matter. Hopefully one of those is the one I need to look at. But all three are under 10% so I should be good. She was kind of getting tired of the Fancy Feast.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here are some more suggestions
if you tap on this link and look at post #32 I listed some Weruva pates for another member
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3124085
Click to expand...
No, I dont have any of those flavors. But the two im feeding her are supposed to be really low carb and she likes them and i have a bunch of it, so unless i find out they are raising her BG for some reason, I will probably stick with these. I dont see why they would be a problem tho. There is a bunch of nutritional info on Weruvas website. Weruva Detailed Nutrition Information For Cats
 
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