Pinky diagnosed diabetec

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ourboypinky

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Our 13 year old part Burmese male Pinky was diagnosed with feline diabetes recently. We are giving Prozinc, 6 units 2X daily concurrent with a diet of wet canned food. We live in Seattle and have been to two vets and have experienced dissatisfaction in treatment of our pet.
An issue we are having is our inability to get blood samples for Pinkys glucose meter. My wife just can't do it, and I usually end up getting the cat terribly stressed out. We would like to try to enlist the help of someone who can help us get blood samples for glucose testing. We are in the Ballard/Crown hill neighborhood. Please let us know if someone in this area is available or if you know of others. Please let us know what you feel is a reasonable fee for doing this. I spend much of my day at my job, but my wife is generally available during the daytime at our home and would welcome any help offered. Also any recommendations for a pet sitter who could do glucose injections and feeding?
Does anyone know if Dr. Emery at Ravenna Union Bay Animal Hospital is still practicing? Again, we are looking for a really good specialist who can help us with Pinky and make the switch from Prozing to Glargine (Lantis).
Any assistance offered would be greatly appreciated. We are a middle-aged couple who just want the best for our kitties, especially Pinky, who has always been a "special case."
 
Safety Note: The dose you are giving is HIGH for starting out and may have started way too high for your cat. Please read this NOW: How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

Starting insulin doses are generally in the 1-2 unit range; and starting lower is safer. If you made a diet change at the same time with that dose, you have an increased risk of sending your cat into hypoglycemia - extremely low blood sugar - which can kill. The body has some short term mechanisms for compensating - the liver has a stored form of sugar it can release for a small period - but you are likely to exhaust that quickly. Once the insulin is in, you cannot get it back out!

I would suggest you drop to 1 unit until you can test successfully.

While you are getting the hang of blood testing, check my signature for secondary monitoring tactics which will help protect the health of your cat.
 
Is there a reason that your vet started with such a large dose? BJ is correct that we suggest starting with a low dose and increasing as needed. Are you giving 6 units a day or 6 units twice a day?

We do have a member, Toddy Tiger, in Seattle. I haven't seen her post lately but will try to contact her. You might also go back to your original post and add Seattle hometesting help to the subject line.

We have lots of tricks that helped us. It isn't easy the first few times but almost always doable. The magic for us was to heat the ear. You can put rice in a thinnest sock, heat in microwave until very warm and then hold next to his ear for 30-45 seconds. Or you can put hot water into a pill bottle. The other thing we needed was a big enough lancet. The 30-31 gauge ones made for humans can be too small for cats. We usually suggest 25-27 gauge.
 
As far as the home testing goes, a quick option is to check with local vet practices for a vet tech to help you learn how to do it, or even a student vet tech from a local college.

Tips for home testing:

1) Lancet size: lancets which come with home glucometers for humans are often too small for initial success with a cat. You want to pick up lancets which are 27 - 28 gauge from the local pharmacy.

2) Dilating the blood vessels: Warming and/or massaging the ears can temporarily increase blood flow, which imporves your chances of success. A rice sock - a thin sock with about 1/4 cup uncooked rice in it - microwaved until just warm (test on your inner forearm, like a baby bottle), may be held against the ear for a minute or so before testing. Other options include a pill bottle with warm water in it, a warm, wet washcloth in a baggy, and so on.

3) Neosporin ointment with pain relief: This does 3 things - it helps the blood bead up due to the petroleum jelly in it, it slightly reduces the annoyance of pricking the ear, and it may help the healing of the pricked area. Apply a small dab a few minutes before testing. Wipe off, then test.

4) Low carb treats as a reward: Each and every time you test, regardless of success, you give the cat a treat. This is to reinforce coming for tests and shots. Some examples include boiled chicken tid bits, or freeze dried 100% meat, poultry, or fish (many pet stores carry these).

5) Target: Ideally, you are aiming for the area between the vein which runs along the outside of the ear and the outer edge of the ear itself, about half an inch up from the skull. When all else fails, you can prick the vein itself, but be prepared to test, then blot quickly as this can bleed profusely. Some folks with dark haired cats may need a small light to help see the blood droplet or may test on the underside of the ear if it is easier to see. Long haired cats may need some of the fur clipped shorter in order to successfully collect a sample.
 
I sent a private message to both Toddy Tiger and Karen and Smokey. Karen isn't in Seattle but in Emuclaw. She may know someone in Seattle. Hopefully one or both will reply.
 
I am so sorry that I can't jump in and help right now.

Yes, I'm in SE King County (Enumclaw).

On Community, you can read my thread about my divorce.

I'm a wreck and barely able to cope with my own situation now.

Prayers for Pinky.
 
Why do you want to change insulin so quickly? Honestly, there is nothing wrong with using prozinc and you may find it's an insulin that is easier to work with than Lantus (as the protocols are a bit more relaxed than Lantus).

I question the starting dose of 6 units. Our recommendation for anyone starting out regardless of insulin type is to start low and go slow. Meaning start at a low dose such as 1 unit or even 1/2 unit and go slow with adjusting dose both in amount of time you wait to adjust dose and the amount of insulin to increase/decrease - we recommend small changes such as 1/2 unit at a time and waiting for several days (with data) before making changes.

This is what I typically send to newbies:


WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
 
Thank you all for your kind replies. Pinky was initially a patient for three days at our first vet where he was adjusted on his dose. We are going to get him in to a third (and hopefully better vet) today. Worried about Sylmongi syndrome with this dosage and other concerns. BG is over 400/daily curve. I know time is of the essence here.
 
It is difficult to identify the correct dose during a hospitalization due to the effects of stress on glucose levels. This may be why the dose is so high - it is attempting to compensate for those elevated levels, which will dissipate when the cat comes home.

And, if the dose is too high, you may be getting Somogyi or the liver attempting to compensate. It cannot do that for long and the result can be a hypoglycemic crisis which could kill your cat. Dropping down to 1 unit every 12 hours can be safe when done with checks for ketones. You may see the glucose levels adjust for the better.

Good luck with a new vet. You want one open to home testing, feeding low carb wet food (canned or raw, NO KIBBLE) and who is either up to date on contemporary feline diabetes management, or willing to get up to date. He or should prescribe Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc, or PZI, if up to date. Any vet still prescribing Humulin N is not up to date or is treating a cat as if it were a dog. Cat's metabolism is double a dog and Humulin N will last only 6-8 hours in a cat.

A good vet resource is the University of Queensland, Centre for Companion Animal Health, Information for veterinarians on management of diabetic dogs & cats which has a number of articles on the use of Lantus (glargine) by Dr Janice Rand, a feline diabetes expert.
 
To be honest, you are just wasting your money leaving the cat at the vet "to get regulated". Unless the cat has ketones or DKA, there is no reason to leave the cat there. You are better off, learning how to home monitor/test (test BG's) yourself, than leaving the cat at the vet.

If you correlate it to a human diabetic, when diagnosed, humans don't stay at the hospital or doctor's office for days or weeks to get regulated. Rather they are taught how to home test, and sent home to do just that.

It's no different just because the diabetic is a cat. I was told the same thing by my former vet, who wouldn't even be there 24/7 to monitor and yet wanted to inject insulin and leave the cat alone in a cage overnight.

I found this board and quickly learned what I needed, including finding a new vet who supported home testing.

How can we help you?
 
I just sent you a private note with my phone number. I lived in Ballard up until last Nov, now I'm in Mountlake Terrace. But if you need some help with something, I can drive over. I am home today, so call me when you have a moment.

-Sarah aka ToddyTiger
 
Your advice is well taken, especially in the respect of home monitoring and self education. My wife and I have spent a fair amount of time trying to educate ourselves and are learning more daily. Two weeks after diagnosis, dry food was reduced and eventually eliminated. Binky's food chart is our guide on canned food and we are now using Fancy Feast classics with Carb levels under 7%. We look for signs of neuropathy and are determined to keep trying to get successful BG readings. I will be getting #27/28 lancets. We have an email out to a local contact who does BG monitoring and petsetting. The links provided to us on BG monitoring will help us greatly. Thank you. If all else fails we will go to the vet or seek a student simply to get a BG reading.
In getting an education, one realizes how glaring the gaps in knowledge can be when trying to assimilate a lot of information at once. We are just now realizing what an error it was to have insulin stepped up in such a short time. We have a friend in Federal Way whose doctor at the Small Animal Hospital in that city prescribed home treatment beginning with 2 units twice daily, going up to 5 units twice daily in four weeks. BG was in the low 700's with her animal. After home treatment, six weeks later, her pets health is excellent.
The FDMB has been a great find. The only specific help I could think of asking for at this time is a for a link to a good specialist in the Seattle area and a contact for pet setters experienced with diabetic cats. Our own self researched leads to two specialists today have not panned out. Otherwise, the replys given here and the archived posts have been extremely helpful. Thanks again.

One concern we have with Pinky is his high cholesterol. It is understood that high cycling tryglycerides can cause insulin resistance. Pinky went from 191 to 424 after a diet some months ago of a high fat Hills Science Diet food. He ballooned in size and lost weight rapidly after taking him off of this food. I wonder if this may have helped cause the disease.

Here are Pinky's numbers from the initial 3-4 days of treatment:

3-12 Initial Visit BG 346

3-13 9:00 BG 426
11:00 BG 430
1:00 BG 380
3:00 BG 390
5:00 BG 402
7:00 BG 446
9:00 BG 510

3-14 10:00 BG 526 Sugar in urine. No ketones present. Glucose 3+ PH 6.0 RBC 0-2 Fructosinone test not given per doctor.
1:00 BG 346
3:00 BG 410
5:00 BG 410
7:00 BG 470

3-15 9:30 BG 402
11:30 BG 390
1:00 BG 380
3:00 BG 290
5:00 BG 270
7:00 BG 510

3-16 9:30 BG 342
1:30 BG 320
3:30 BG 170
5:30 BG 310
7:30 BG 344
 
Thank you Toddy Tiger. We will keep you in mind. Much appreciated.
I should note on the previous numbers for Pinky, Insulin given was as follows:

3-13 2 units twice daily
3-14 4 units twice daily
3-15 5 units twice daily
3-16 5 units twice daily

It was upon the advice of the second vet, upon seeing the high BG numbers after one month of treatment, that insulin be stepped up to 6 units, twice daily and that wet food be used exclusively.
It must be mentioned that we are aware of the hypo danger and this is the main reason that we are attempting BG monitoring. Our luck with this will change. Again thanks for the great links.
 
Toddy Tiger, We went to Greenwood Animal Hospital, and then to Cat Clinic of NE Seattle. Dr Romanowski, a great doctor, was no longer there. The Cat Clinic was our old standby. He was a great vet and helped us through some difficult times with our pets.
 
My suggestion would be to try Dr. Darley at VCA Crown Hill, if you haven't already. I know there are folks who are not fond of VCA (large clinics, can be expensive) but I can't recommend Dr. Darley enough. She got us through many hard times and even came to our house to help us say goodbye to one of our dear kitties. Our Toddy was a favorite at the clinic. one of the good things about them is they are open 7 days a week! and Dr. Darley was always ok with my many, MANY phone calls with questions. hehe


You could also try Cat's Exclusive in Shoreline. But I would avoid seeing Dr.Schubert. Though she was very nice, I was there for 4 hours with Todd and all they did was test his blood sugar and then she told me there was no point in treating him, he only had about two weeks left to live (he had just developed kidney disease). Thanks to Dr. Darley, he lived another year.

The Family Pet are also very nice, but I just don't know how experienced the doctors are with Diabetes.

You could also try the VSC clinic in Lynnwood. At night its a trauma pet hospital, but during the day they have specialists to see by appointment. I believe you might need to get some kind of referral from a current vet to be able to see one of the specialists. But it might be worth a try!



If you need help doing the home testing, do give me a call and I can come help. :)

-Sarah aka ToddyTiger
 
3-13 2 units twice daily
3-14 4 units twice daily
3-15 5 units twice daily
3-16 5 units twice daily
Click to expand...

Hi,
Wow, that's insane dosing. Pinky is lucky to have made it out alive. Literally.
First off, no vet, or anyone else for that matter, can determine if a dose is "right" based on one day of treatment. Each day, the vet determined "nope, it ain't working, step it up another notch". Pinky was overdosed from day one.
When Prozinc was first developed, a study was done to determine if it was a suitable replacement for the old PZI Vet, the kitties were started at a low dose, and the dose wasn't adjusted until the 7th day at a low dose. Each week, the cats were evaluated and an increase or decrease was made. It takes that long to figure out what the dose does. You can't tell that from two shots. The vet needs to read that study it sounds like. And when increases are made, they aren't done in 1u increments. .5u at most. On the second day of "treatment", they doubled his daily intake. That's what caused the high numbers. By the time the 2nd vet saw him and upped him to 6u, he didn't have a chance of figuring it out.
They should have started him on 1u BID, and gathered enough data to really determine what the insulin was doing.

I don't think Pinky needs a different insulin. I just think he needs for the insulin to be dosed correctly. Any insulin that was started too high and increased too quickly would give you "like results", so it isn't the insulin that is the problem. I would do a "do over". I'd drop him down to 1u BID like this was his first day after diagnosis. I would also take Sarah up on her offer to come over and help you with the home-testing.

Carl
 
Hello and Welcome, Pinky and (What shall we call you?) -

I'm sorry your kitty has been diagnosed with FD, but you've found a treasure here! Our Hershey was diagnosed Nov, 2011, and initially my husband did all of the testing/shooting as I thought I'd NEVER be able to do those things! I was in charge of the paperwork, researching, etc. I learned pretty quickly that I had to test if I wanted to help keep Hershey safe. He has hypo'd on us a couple of times (to date we've not dosed over 1u) with no symptoms, so I wouldn't have known without testing.

Good job on all you've learned and changed already and on trying to get the hang of home testing. It DOES get easier! especially with the supportive friends you'll make here.

You've already met some super people and gotten some great advice, so I'll just say WELCOME!! We also have a warm little family in PZI and I would invite you to join us, if you'd like.

Take care and know you're not alone in this!

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
All of your replies have been very enlightening. It turns out that cat people are great (and quite compassionate). I will leave a few questions out there for anyone with the time to answer.

1.) With Prozinc twice daily, twelve hours apart, is it permitted to feed lightly outside of the morning and evening meals? The vets were adamant about keeping Pinky from having more than a single treat or two during this 12 hour period. How much does anyone on the board feed between meals?

2.) With activity levels higher from 4:00 pm-4:00 am, should insulin or food be adjusted upward? Regular feeding times are 7:30 am and 7:30 pm. After six hours post insulin dose, the cat is completely fixated on finding food. Is it possible the insulin is not lasting? Is this a bad time to snack? We know the snack has to be no or lo carb.


We are thinking of contacting the VCA Crown Hill clinic, Dr. Darley, to interview this vet. We do need a vet for guidance and for prescriptions. I would also like their advice during the "do-over" suggested by Carl and Bob. The do-over makes great sense to us, and the literature on Prozinc supports the gradual approach in increasing dosage. Having a vet on standby would be good while we "do it right the second time." Thanks Carl for reminding us not to trust every medical professional.
 
There are a lot of different ideas on when to feed. My mom is diabetic and was told to eat more, smaller meals throughout the day. So, we feed Hershey 4 times a day: shot times and +6. We've tried dividing it in different amounts but didn't see that it changed his BG (but every cat is different), so now we just divide it into pretty equal meals.
 
Maui always was and still is a grazer. I always left wet food out for her to eat all the time. While I serve "meals" and she could eat everything in sight, I would then put out more so that she always had access to food. And in the beginning she could eat 2 - 2 1/2 cans of fancy feast in one sitting. AND then graze until the next "meal" was served.

Not everyone leaves food sitting out, but those people feed several "mini meals" throughout the day/night.

When you give insulin, you want to make sure you cat eats and has access to food if he is a grazer, as you don't want a hypo situation which can happen if he doesn't get enough food.

So, limiting the amount of food is not a good idea.
 
1.) With Prozinc twice daily, twelve hours apart, is it permitted to feed lightly outside of the morning and evening meals? The vets were adamant about keeping Pinky from having more than a single treat or two during this 12 hour period. How much does anyone on the board feed between meals?

2.) With activity levels higher from 4:00 pm-4:00 am, should insulin or food be adjusted upward? Regular feeding times are 7:30 am and 7:30 pm. After six hours post insulin dose, the cat is completely fixated on finding food. Is it possible the insulin is not lasting? Is this a bad time to snack? We know the snack has to be no or lo carb.
Click to expand...

1 - I've been posting and reading for almost a year on the PZI forum, and from what I have seen, most every cat does better with more than two meals a day. When Bob was on insulin, he got four meals a day. A can of FF classics with the AM and PM shots, and a half can of FF or Friskees somewhere between 5-7 hours after each shot. It is probably best to feed the extra portions during the first half of the cycle than the 2nd half, as the insulin is more effective for the first 6 hours.
2 - "Higher activity levels can lower BG numbers" is something many people have seen with their kitties. If he burns off the calories late in the cycle, that's a good thing. Any exercise is a good thing. But we normally discourage food in the 2-3 hours leading up to the AM and PM tests and shots so that you don't get any "food boosted" BG numbers when you test prior to the shot.

He might act hungry when his BG is at the low point, especially if his body is telling him it is "too low". They seem to know when they need a glucose boost. We usually advise testing to see how low it is, and feeding if it is excessively low. Important thing to remember is that his opinion of "too low" and your meter's opinion will most likely vary. Kitty will insist he feels low if it's a number his body has forgotten is "normal". His "normal" at this point is the diabetic numbers range.

Carl
 
The vets were adamant about keeping Pinky from having more than a single treat or two during this 12 hour period.
Click to expand...

Was this the same vets who came up with the doses? Huh, go figure... ;-)

Carl
 
The replys are appreciated. You've all been great! I am having success with the ear lancing now. Found that just getting toward the outside a bit more and using a #27 lancet did the trick. Unfortunately, Murphy has shown up a few times with error messages on the glucometer. Got a fresh batch of test strips today at Walgreens. This should help eliminate the E-3 errors I'm getting on the Walgreens tru-test meter indicating "old" test strips (even though those test strips were supposedly good through 9-2013).
 
Could be the old strips- sounds like an easy fix. Sometimes too much or too little blood also gives you error messages.

Let us know your numbers when you get them if you would like help. Preshot numbers and a midcycle number will help show you how the insulin is working.
 
Hypoglycemia, First Time, PLS Help

Sorry, if this isn't how I should request help but I don't know how message boards work. Pinky has had his first hypoglycemic event today. I now recognize it began at 1 p.m. PST. Just finally got BG reading of 120 after a smear of honey, and this was due to him acting strangely (thought he was looking for a mouse all day). Can't get him to pay attn to food and he was due for meal at 7:30pm. As well as insulin. All vets are now closed. What do I do? Gave him another dab of honey, then a 2/3 of tsp. more. Will he crash from the honey and how do I get him to eat? Obviously I wonder if he does eat do I give him any insulin later tonight?
 
Sorry, I don't know your name -

A couple of quick things, then I'll post again - (120) is actually a very nice number, so there shouldn't be much chance of hypo danger right now.

You asked about requesting help - in the future, it's best to start a new thread, preferably in your insulin support group. Since each insulin acts a little differently, it's best to ask of people who use your insulin. You can also post a "911" icon until you get assistance or until the danger has passed or, what I usually do is put something in the subject line to get attention like "NEED EYES and whatever else you want to put."

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Re: Hypoglycemia, First Time, PLS Help

Hershey has thrown me some pretty low numbers a few times, but never with any symptoms. How long between the time you gave the honey and you got the (120) reading? How long since his insulin shot? I'm not sure his behavior is from a hypo incident...

You said he's acting strangely? Can you give some examples of what he's been doing? When was the last time he ate?

You might try heating the food to make it stinky. The stinkier the better. When my non-diabetic cat won't eat, I've been known to spoon feed him, or even offer him a treat and when he goes to take it from my hand, left it drop into the food. By the time he fishes it out, he forgot he didn't want to eat
 
Are you still around? One thing I should've mentioned it's good to stay around when you're in a situation needing assistance. We like to know everything is okay before we leave you. I'll check back for the next few minutes before presuming all is well and you've left for the evening.

For your own peace of mind, just plan on skipping the next insulin shot. Be prepared that your next PS may be much higher than you're used to, but it will allow things to settle down tonight and y'all can get some sleep. Also, don't increase your dose just because tomorrow's pre-shot number may be higher. Cats often experience a bounce when they see numbers lower than they're used to and their bodies react by dumping extra glucose, which would make the PS higher.

Did you get any other tests in this afternoon? Just checking to see if you know how low he went. Most people say start thinking hypo around (50). Hershey threw me a (31) one day at shot time! Wouldn't have known if I hadn't been home-testing...

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
I am still here. Got him to eat less than 1/3 cup hiss prescription food, as we were on way store for canned food when all this occurred. This at least has carbs, but I don't know how long it will take to elevate his numbers. I am the regular posters spouse, and we forgot we were out of food. The amount of dry food we gave him was only 1/2 of what we used to feed him before switching to canned.
The amount of time was just a few minutes after giving him first dab of hone (120 BG reading). That was 12 hrs since insulin. More will follow on his behavior. I tried fresh heated chicken, and plain tsp of tuna. Plus I tried his ultimate treat beef flavored temptations. He is only allowed two of those per day due to high carbs.
 
Hello, this is Richard. My wife Michele posted tonight regarding the sopposed hypo event. Thank you for your help. Regarding behavior, Pinky had spent all afternoon looking for a critter he had caught and got loose in the house. At least, this is what I believe as this behavior mirrors what has happened before when bringing in mice and other small prey. Once, about six months ago, we found the prey between the bed sheets at 2:00 am in the morning. What a shock for Michele! The mouse was just slightly dazed and released into the wilds of the alley behind our house.
It is my initial opinion that Pinkys BG numbers might have been low as this behavior really began in earnest about six hours after insulin dosing. He was agitated and acting really weird. There may well be something else going on here. What it is, I'm not sure.
 
Hey, Richard -

First - EEEEKKK!!! A mouse between the sheets??? How kind of you to catch and release; that's not how it would've been at my house. ;-)

ProZinc is dosed every 12-hours but I read that it is meant to last 10 - 14 hours, although I don't know any cats who can squeeze that many hours out. So, the good news is, that part should be over for you. I don't know your kitty, but Oreo will chase/stalk anything...I mean a-n-y thing...bugs, shadows, toys, you name it. Or maybe it was something that got out before he could get it. What a good kitty you have! We used to live in the woods in an old house and would often have those little brown mice find their way in. We'd find Hershey sitting and watching it go about it's business. My sister said we fed him too well for him to feel the need to hunt them. I think he's just above all of that. He's always been more like people.

Have you looked into getting low/no carb treats? Some cats are really sensitive to carbs and higher carbs treats can interfere with what you're trying to do with giving insulin and feeding low carb wet food. Since it's been a whole cycle since he's had insulin and you've gotten him to eat some, then you don't need to use the higher carb food or honey anymore tonight. You can test and make a decision on the shot or you can just let it go until morning, if it won't mess up your schedule too much.
 
Do you have a hypo kit? Most of us get a few things together and keep them exclusively for hypo situations. Hershey eats Wellness <6% carbs, but I keep a couple of cans of Friskies with gravy 19% carbs and a bottle of karo syrup on the freezer (way away from his regular food so they don't get confused!) just for hypos. I know they can be scary things, believe me, my first one was a little nerve wracking. That's the only time I ever used the karo syrup on him because after that, I knew more about how the food would bring him up. I usually don't even use the higher carb food as I've learned that feeding small amounts of his regular food will bring him nicely without having to deal with the much higher numbers once the event is over.

I know what you mean about not realizing you're out of food. We order Hershey's food - 4 cases of 13.2-oz cans at a time, but Oreo eats Friskies Pate' and they're cheaper at Walmart. Got home from WM Thursday and realized his food never made it to the list. Thankfully, I keep about 7 days worth stashed just in case.
 
I would invite you to join us in the PZI/ProZinc Insulin Support Group whenever you'd like to. I know HEALTH is where newbies come to introduce themselves and where we all still ask general questions, but it's nice to meet people who use the same insulin you use since the insulins do act differently. We are a small, but friendly little group that feel more like family. We talk about our kitties, plus just share our lives. It's so nice to have friends who really get what you're going through. I don't know how it is with y'all, but my family sure doesn't get why I'm treating Hershey...after all - he's just a cat! (WRONG!) Most of my non-forum friends don't get it, either, although some are coming around and ask how he's doing or questions wanting to learn more about feline diabetes.

Anyway - don't want to pressure you, just wanted you to know y'all are welcome whenever y'all like to join us!

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Took a reading after feeding "half scoop" of dry food along with the previous administration of about a teaspoon of honey. BG of 190 at 9:00 pm. Skipped insulin this evening. He normally gets his injections at 7:30 am and 7:30 pm. Pinky is resting normally after being agitated all afternoon and early evening.
I will take BG reading curve tomorrow, Sunday, and watch insulin dosing closely. Thanks again for your kind responses and invite.
 
Thank you everyone and sorry if I, obviously the wife got a bit hysterical. Never seen anything like this before, hope it doesn't repeat anytime soon. I will keep extra food stashed from now on. Also plan on going on auto delivery so we won't run out. Always have honey and corn syrup on hand as I can never get the bottles emptied it seems. Going out for food, hope tomorrow things will improve. :oops:
 
Just got back from store. He is now walking backwards, like there's an unseen object he sees that I don't. Way in the world is going on?
 
Richard,
People who get hysterical obviously love their pets, so don't worry about it.
Anyone who has been here for a good bit of time realizes that the crisis is real to the person or persons with the cat right in front of them, and we try to do our best to A) put ourselves in your place, and B) help you deal with the immediate situation. It's a lot easier from where I sit than it is from where you are sitting! I replied in your newer thread earlier.

Carl
 
ourboypinky said:
Just got back from store. He is now walking backwards, like there's an unseen object he sees that I don't. Way in the world is going on?
Click to expand...

How do his eyes look? Spacey looking? Are his head movements odd?

Carl
 
I don't think it's a low BG problem but can you check? I think maybe he did catch some sort of critter, and whatever it might have been may not have agreed with him. Any other symptoms....vomiting for instance? Is he eating or will he eat?
 
No vomiting, yet when he backed up I thought he might hurl. Richard just fed him 1 tblsp. Of his regular canned food. Then rich dropped drink, pinky left room. Richard saw him walk and described it as if he ran into invisible wall.
 
Rich is checking now. At 8 pm it was 120, after honey and some hills science, BG went to 190 at 9:15.
If u can read earlier thread, while we check BG might give u better picture of what has occurred today/tonight with Pinky. Don't want to offend u if you have already read it. Will try BG now.
 
I have read it, and it may be that when you saw him looking for what might have been a critter of some sort that he'd caught.... I'm thinking maybe he did catch something that was toxic to him. On the east coast, there are varying opinions from vets as to whether or not a blue-tailed skink can be toxic to cats. Some say no, others say yes. But the classic alleged symptoms of ingesting a skink are disorientation, glassy eyes, weaving head movement, but also include vomiting and loss of appetite. Maybe he ate some animal that was mildly toxic. Is there an emergency ER phone number that you can call?

OK, just saw the BG results. So it isn't hypoglycemia causing this.
Carl
 
I had never heard that, Carl, in fact - I had to google to find out what a blue-tailed skink even was! (Sorry to eavesdrop, but was checking in before heading off to bed.)

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Yes, we have access to emergency clinics and their phone numbers. At this time, 11:15 PDT, Pinky is resting on the bed quietly. Not seeing agitation or disorientation. Surprisingly, the critter search has ended since intake of the honey and food. Puzzled. Perhaps he found the prey and ate it or the "critter" was never there and was a misperception of mine.
Pinky has been on a diet of low carb wet food for four weeks now. We did not follow through with enough thorough BG readings and weekly curves as we should have. I take responsibility for this as getting the blood samples have been difficult with this cat. It is possible that Pinky went into remission suddenly without our knowing it and we blindly went on giving five units PZI without proper monitoring.
 
Richard,
At this point, I'm not at all worried about the weekly curves. If you can get a test at both shot times, and one test in the middle of a cycle (+6), that will go a long way in evaluating what his dose is doing day-to-day. If you can do that, and post on the PZI forum, we can really help you out. The diet change is great. That will do nothing but help. But if you can "know" the numbers, there's a great chance he can become better regulated, and any low BG emergency can be avoided.

There are all sorts of tips and tricks you can learn that will make the testing easier on you and on him. If you want more help, just ask. That's why we're all here!

Carl
 
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