Phoenix newly diagnosed

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Lindsay & Phoenix

Lindsay & Phoenix

Member Since 2011
Hello Lantus people! I have been posting on the main board but am in need of some support and advice from diabetic parents with Lantus knowledge. Phoenix was diagnosed just over a week ago with a BG of 500 and he was started at 2 units twice daily. Three days later, at the Vet's office, he was at 378 so they upped dosage to 3 units. Then, Friday morning, 5/13 he was at 194 at the Vet's. They kept him at 3 units. So far I have seen 3 of the 4 vets who work at my clinic and they all seem to be on the same page as each other, but that is different from everything I am reading here. In fact, the Vet on Friday told me to always leave some dry food down for grazing. I want to pull dry food completely. I started on more wet food back in February before we were diagnosed simply for weight loss and since he was diagnosed I am giving 2-3 cans of low carb wet daily for both of my cats to share. I have read on here that it would be a very bad idea to pull the dry food completely with his Lantus being at 3 units. Also, I should mention that I have my home testing stuff on the way in the mail and will begin as soon as it arrives. After all of that, I suppose my real question is once I have my testing supplies and can do a curve to see what kind of numbers I get, what should I reduce the Lantus to when I pull dry food? Some have suggested 1 unit twice daily, others 1.5.

Thanks in advance
Lindsay, Phoenix, and Gob
 
hi lindsay!

there are several people on here who will give advice with dosing, but most aren't on this time of night. someone will no doubt answer you tomorrow, but in the meantime i just wanted to say welcome and point you to the "stickys" that are at the top of the Lantus forum page. Especially the one "new to lantus/levemir, start here" will be a great place for you to start.

you're right that people here will want you to get rid of the dry food, but it is important to not tip phoenix's balance, so don't just pull it. someone more expert than me will tell you the process to make that change & still keep her safe.

good job taking control of Phoenix's health - this is very do-able and people here will help you every step of the way. it's a wonderful community of people devoted to getting & keeping their cats as healthy as possible. the experts here have helped zillions of people and know feline diabetes inside & out. you'll have lots of questions, so ask away!
 
Hi Linsday!

I just wanted to say "Welcome to LantusLand!" Julie has given you some good starting info, and I'm sure the experienced dosing folks will be along shortly. It sounds like you're very much on the right track with caring for Phoenix!

Amy
 
Welcome Lindsay!

Since you have a little bit of time before your meter and supplies arrive, I'd like to suggest that you read the starred, sticky notes at the top of the page. The following is an overview of what the stickies contain.
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.

With respect to starting dose, one way that initial dose can be determined is based on weight. (initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms) This usually calculates out to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0u. When your vet was raising Phoenix's dose, what were they basing the decision on? Did they do a curve in the office or was it a single test? Either way, many cats experience artificially elevated blood glucose (BG) numbers at the vet's office due to stress. As a result, when you get home and your cat is back in familiar surroundings, the numbers drop and you end up giving too much insulin. This is the value of home testing. You're also correct about the food. I wouldn't change anything until you can test and see if changing diet is dropping numbers, unless, of course, you want to lower Phoenix's dose but it's hard to know if he's getting the right amount of insulin.

You'll also notice from our dosing protocol that we do not increase dose in large amounts. We typically increase by 0.25u. Increasing in large amounts increases the likelihood that you will miss an effective dose.

Please ask questions and let us know how we can help.
 
Welcome Lindsay and Phoenix!

So great you're here! The experts here are terrific and they got me out of a pickle last Thursday.

It would be interesting to see why your vets recommend dry food. My vet pushed Prescriptions DM and I learned his reasoning of "because it's for diabetics" was not good enough. We tried it for 8 weeks and there was no improvement. Within days of going wet, there was a noticeable improvement. Every cat is different and Julie is right -- it's important not to tip Phoenix's balance.

The advice here hasn't been pulled out of thin air and has been based on research. There are ways to coach your vet and the link at the bottom of that page has another link for more research. Your vet has good intentions but may not necessarily be aware of the research in that link. Or if he is, it would be interesting to see why he's recommending a different route.

Best of luck to you on this sugar journey and welcome to Lantus Land!
Bonnie
 
Welcome welcome, and don't panic. The experts are already starting to advise you on caring for your kitty and I'm here to tell you - it works. As a personal recommendation, consider my Mala's story.

In 2006, Mala was acting listless, and we feared renal failure - a disease which has taken several of our fur babies. When we got her to the vet's office, he found a BG of over 500, which I now know to have been artificially high due to stress. He put her on Vetsulin and recommended Science Diet formula for diabetic kitties.

I came home in a panic and managed to find this site. Mala would not be here still had I not. They coached us in the shift toward wet LC food. They altered her insulin dose from 2 units BID to 1, then helped us drop that dose step by step. It took no more than a month before Mala's numbers dropped into safe territory, and we were able to discontinue insulin.

She was in remission until this April, when she developed an ear infection. Another vet, also well meaning, gave her ear drops with steroids, and we saw a return of her symptoms. This vet also recommended she take 2 units BID, but I knew not to pay too much attention to the dosing instructions. I also refused to get her blood readings done in the vet's office - they would be artificially inflated due to stress and not helpful in dosing.

I hope that Mala will be OTJ again in a week, and again it's due to the assistance given us by this board. We nearly lost her the first night, when after a dose of 1 unit of Lantus, Mala's BGs plummeted to a minimal 27. Several members of the board stayed up all night with us (thank you again, Marjorie), and she made it through.

Our first vet predicted that, after a diagnosis of diabetes, our kitty could live another two years or so. Most of his diabetic feline patients made it that far. Our kitty is past 5 years from initial diagnosis, and I think she's going to live a good long time now. So remember - diabetes is not a death sentence. Your results will vary - they always say "Every Cat Is Different" - but following the protocol pays off.

Good luck to you, and lots of people here care about you and your furbaby, so post when you need advice, or a pat on the back, or a shoulder to cry on, or just recognition that other people are here and willing to listen.
 
Morning!, and Welcome to Lantus Land. I won't add any more info to what has already been provided - it can be a bit overwhelming at first. But I did want to welcome you. I hope we will be seeing you here often. Good luck!
 
Welcome, Lindsay and Phoenix, to Lantus Land. I'm sure that you can't wait to get your meter and stuff and begin home testing, but, as Sienne says, you can use the time to good advantage by becoming familiar with the protocol, the food options, etc. etc. Everyone here wants to help you and your kitty, so never hesitate to ask questions. We aren't all experts on dosing (the ones who are are very, very good), but we can lend a hand with so many of the day-to-day matters involved in dealing with Feline Diabetes.

Have a good weekend and again, welcome.

Ella & Rusty
 
Good morning Lindsay and Phoenix....just sending you greetings and welcoming you to our LL family. We're all here to help. There's usually someone around at all times of the day and night to assist you and answer questions, hold your hand through low numbers (and high ones), talk you through shooting as Phoenix improves and numbers come down. No question is off limits....the more the better; we are all about education and also getting our kitties regulated in a safe manner. We'll be looking forward to seeing Phoenix's SS, profile, and home testing numbers. Do you know how to hometest? Let us know if we can provide you videos, photos of where to poke, etc.

(And you're welcome Renee....it was my pleasure esp seeing Mala's incredible progress!).
 
Welcome to Lantus Land! It all seems overwhelming in the beginning, but with the help you will receive here, you will be informed & up & running real soon! Great that you will be getting hometesting stuff, and that will make all the difference--We will help you along the way--
When we first came here, our vet had Moonie up to 3 units of humilin & wanted to raise her again--I was already on here & they told me not to--That's when we went to a specialist vet who put her on lantus, & then the healing began...We have 15 years of knowledge here on FDMB..Of cats & Feline Diabetes.
Phoenix will be well again soon.Just keep posting everyday, ask questions & read the stickys on top of the lantus page..again, Welcome.
 
I want to add my welcome to Lantus Land!! This site is a godsend and will keep you sane. You'll still have moments when you're feeling overwhelmed, but the people here are very generous with their shoulders so you can lean on them for any encouragement you may need as well. I know it goes against our nature to NOT follow our vets instructions, but you'll find that the experts here are far more knowledgeable out feline diabetes and what works to get them into remission. I've had "the talk" with my vet, showed him all the information about the protocol we follow, etc., and he has no problem with me dosing Champ as I feel necessary. I hope your vet will be as smart!! :-D

Have a good Sunday. You have all of us here to help you in any way we can!!
 
Hi, I also wanted to say "welcome"! You are in the right place. The friends on here will help guide you through all your questions and while at times you will feel overwhelmed and unsure of yourself, you will soon know what you are doing and will feel right at home. Everybody here has been new and in the freaking out stage. Welcome again!
 
Yet another welcome!! I can say without hesitation that this is the most wonderful place that you never want to have to find. You've been given great info so far, so I won't pile on... we were diagnosed in December and I still remember the steep learning curve! I'd just encourage you to read different kitties' daily threads, or "condos" as we call them, and also look at their spreadsheets. It can give you some perspective on where different cats are in the process, the challenges of FD, and also the amazing success that can be had. I still can't believe how far my Willie has come in the past 5 1/2 months... following the recommendations here has easily taken a decade off his life.

I look forward to learning more about you and Phoenix, and I hope you all are enjoying your Sunday afternoon!
 
Welcome Phoenix and Lindsay!!! We welcome you w/open arms.

hugs-cat-lolcat-hugz.jpg
 
I also want to welcome you to LL. This is such an incredible place, full of support and wisdom. When my cat, Simon was diagnosed in Nov. 2010, my vet started him on 3 units and increased to 4 units after his initial curve done at the vet. That same day, I received my testing equipment in the mail. Thank goodness for that, because that night, before I had even given Simon the 4 units, his bg tested in the 40's. Without the guidance from everyone here, I would have shot blindly 4 units and Simon might have hypo'd and not made it through the night. People here stayed up late with me that night, holding my hand and giving me encouragement. After that night, I decreased his dose to 1 unit on the advice from others here and since then, Simon has done really well. I took him off all dry food (my vet said Simon should only be on WD dry food) and I believe that has helped him. It has even helped my non-diabetic cat. She is now more active and friendly because she also only eats canned. And their fur is much healthier looking. Definitely start making the switch to canned food once you get your testing equipment. I slowly weaned both cats off the dry and they don't even miss it now. Good luck with everything and again, welcome!
 
Thanks for all the warm welcomes and love. I am so thankful to have found this site because I have learned so much invaluable information in the past week and a half. I think I am just going to go to Walmart right now instead of waiting for the mail because I am very eager to learn his numbers and do a curve. All three times at the vet they have NOT done a curve and have only upped dosage based on a single BG test. I thought after this last visit with his number at 194 that they would suggest lowering his dosage but they did not. That was when I knew I had to take matters into my own hands and just watch him closely. Phoenix, like most cats, HATES the vet, HATES car rides, HATES his carrier and usually either throws up, pees, poop, or some combination when we go to the vet so I know he had to have had an artificially high reading. I have read all the stickies, all the newbie FDMB info., I have a holistic guide to pet diabetes in the mail, I have watched videos on home testing, gotten my hypo kit almost complete, made lists of the low carb cans out there (and stocked up on them). I feel calm and ready to make his health my priority. I will let everyone know when I have my home testing supplies and make my first attempt.

Also, I posted on the main forum that my other kitty, Gob, already has his beach bod ready from switching to wet food. He looks sleek and shiny.
 
Welcome to Lantus Land.

I don't know if someone has said this already but I wouldn't make the switch to wet food until you are home testing. You should research wet food - binky's list - and decide what you will try first. Switching to wet food can have a dramatic impact on blood glucose (lowering it). So that in combination with the current dose might end up in a hypo. Especially because Phoenix might read lower when at home (almost certainly).
 
Welcome welcome!!

There is so much information available here, and lots of people willing to share their knowledge and experience, it can be very very overwhelming. I am still trying to take it all in!

Willy was diagnosed in July 2010. I struggled for a long time on what was the best treatment for him and how I should be handling his situation. I joined the forum several weeks ago because I was becoming frustrated that he didn't seem to be getting better. Since I have taken Willy's dosing into my own hands (with lots of help, support, and advice from the wonderful folks here) we have gotten him down from them 300-400 range to the 100-200 range.

Vets have to know so many things about so many animals and they have so many clients and deal with a lot of people that really aren't as dedicated to their pets like the wonderful people here are. My vet wasn't pleased that I didn't call her every step of the way, but I received a lot of support here and was given a LIBRARY of information that I could bring to her to help her understand my point of view and it worked out very well for us.

Welcome to the forums! I look forward to seeing how your kitty progresses!
 
Hi, Lindsay, and welcome to you, Phoenix and Gob! Just wanted to add that you are doing a wonderful job finding your way. It took me four months to realize I needed to take responsibility. You are already in charge and in the right place. Phoenix is going to do great!
 
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