Petunia dose questions

Barbara

Barbara

Very Active Member
We have had a crazy few days. Last Friday she ended up at the vet for the day & it turned out she was very constipated. She got an enema & has seemed to be back to normal. I added pumpkin & started adding 1/8 tsp Miralax once a day yesterday. I need to get some more mid cycle numbers but am not home during the day till Sat. I would have though something was wrong with my meter with all the AM & PM #’s being so close or the same if I hadn’t gotten the mid cycle 140’s any suggestions as to what’s going on?

Hubby opened the dry food before bed & I guess didn’t close it properly. She woke me up in the middle of the night by knocking the lid off. I don’t really think she did but could have gotten some. She screams for food most of the time.
 
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Wow, those pre-shots and mid-cycles are very different! She did earn another reduction last night from dropping below 90. :)
 
Panic said:
Wow, those pre-shots and mid-cycles are very different! She did earn another reduction last night from dropping below 90. :)
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I didn’t even think about lowering since she’s so high at pre shot. Could She be getting those high PS’s due to too much insulin?
 
If you are following SLGS then yes, time for a reduction.

Perhaps @Deb & Wink has an idea for the vast difference in pre-shot vs nadir numbers. My only guess could be maybe Prozinc isn't giving Petunia the full 12 hour duration. What times are you feeding her? Any food after nadir? That will burn up insulin faster.
 
Panic said:
If you are following SLGS then yes, time for a reduction.

Perhaps @Deb & Wink has an idea for the vast difference in pre-shot vs nadir numbers. My only guess could be maybe Prozinc isn't giving Petunia the full 12 hour duration. What times are you feeding her? Any food after nadir? That will burn up insulin faster.
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Typically she eats a can of FF right after testing at AM & PMPS, I have given her some extra food at night if she’s going low just so I can get some sleep but that’s her regular FF. The past 2 nights I have given her a half of a mini patty Vital Essentials freeze dried Rabbit. I just got those for my other cat who has IBD & was giving them as a treat. I couldn’t find it on Dr Lisa’s chart but it’s raw so I assumed it was ok.

Rabbit, Rabbit Liver, Rabbit Heart, Rabbit Kidney, Goat’s Milk, Water, Herring Oil, Mixed Tocopherols (A Natural Preservative), d-Alpha Tocopherol (A Natural Source of Vitamin E).

I just looked up the ingredients & posted above.

She used to get 3 can of FF a day but was gaining too much weight so the vet had me cut back to 2. She has continued to beg & scream for food & will do anything to get extra....including eating the other cats vomit! The one with IBD takes spells of vomiting a lot. I have 5 cats eating 3 different foods. I’m gone from home for about 10 hours for work during the day. I’m simply too exhausted to feed more often. These 2 special needs are driving me nuts!
 
That may be what's going on ... a diabetic needs food throughout the day to 1) heal the pancreas and 2) slow the drop of insulin. She could be falling too hard during the day and boucing by pre-shot. She really needs food during the day and night. A cat with low BG will seek out food ... it needs to be available for her. I understand you've got your hands full but it's a risk factor for her. If she is screaming for food that's a good indication something is up. FF is only 100 calories per can, that's 200 calories a day. That's suitable for a non-diabetic 10 lb cat. New diabetics - which Petunia is - often needs double. Because you said she's gaining too much weight, double might not be ideal, but this thread mentions adding an additional 3oz to food ... which would be another can. My little 4 lb (normally 8 lb) cat was eating 4-5 cans per day.

I am not sure about the preservatives on the freeze-dried rabbit but the rest sounds good. I understand the difficulty of having food available in a multi-cat household (not to mention IBD kitty added to the mix) so I would offer maybe the idea of have Petunia sectioned off to a certain part of the house while you're away and having a Petsafe 5 autofeeder out for her.
 
Panic said:
. If she is screaming for food that's a good indication something is up. FF is only 100 calories per can, that's 200 calories a day. That's suitable for a non-diabetic 10 lb cat. New diabetics - which Petunia is - often needs double. Because you said she's gaining too much weight, double might not be ideal, but this thread mentions adding an additional 3oz to food ... which would be another can. My little 4 lb (normally 8 lb) cat was eating 4-5 cans per day.

I am not sure about the preservatives on the freeze-dried rabbit but the rest sounds good. I understand the difficulty of having food available in a multi-cat household (not to mention IBD kitty added to the mix) so I would offer maybe the idea of have Petunia sectioned off to a certain part of the house while you're away and having a Petsafe 5 autofeeder out for her.
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She’s been screaming for food since before the first visit to the vet back in March I took her in due to all the weight gain. Nothing showed up on her blood work at the time so the vet had me cut back her food. I noticed in August she had lost too much weight & was drinking a lot of water. I tested her at home & discovered high BG so to the vet we went. Again all blood work is ok except BG.

I have thought of the auto feeder but my IBD kitty also loves FF but is allergic to chicken. I was afraid he would tear the feeder up trying to get to it. He’s pretty determined. She tries to rip the door down whenever I try to lock her out of a room. Ugh....not sure what I’m going to do!

Do you know anything about the feeders that are programmed to open by their microchip?
 
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That's interesting. Assuming you ruled out any additional issues already?

I understand, when I was away I'd have other people feed (she was outside a lot) and just hoping the other cats wouldn't eat it.

I don't have personal experience with the microchip feeders, you might get more input on Main Health. They're a little pricey and some cats get spooked by them I've heard.

Feeders often have a spot for ice packs (not always included), others just add ice cubes to the food to keep it cool and from drying out. I live in the deep south and could leave food outside without it going bad. Dr Pierson said she'd leave food out for 12 hours in the California summers and never had an issue. Bigger problem is bugs outside.
 
Panic said:
That's interesting. Assuming you ruled out any additional issues already?


Feeders often have a spot for ice packs (not always included), others just add ice cubes to the food to keep it cool and from drying out. I live in the deep south and could leave food outside without it going bad. Dr Pierson said she'd leave food out for 12 hours in the California summers and never had an issue. Bigger problem is bugs outside.
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Nothing else shows up on her bloodwork!

So if I’m here to feed her a can in the morning with her shot then in the evening for her shot it seems like not so much food to give her an additional can split into 5 portions?
 
The couple of thoughts I have, looking at Petunia's SS, is that 1. perhaps she is being overdosed.
So as well as earning a dose reduction by dropping < 90 mg/dL, a 0.25U dose going forward may help those BG's from dropping so low, and then bouncing high.

2. Plus the duration doesn't look like it's lasting the full 12 hours.

Understood that you can not test much during the day, as you are working.
But if you have a day off, would you be willing to run a 12 hour curve?
That would be testing from one pre-shot to the next pre-shot time, with a BG test every 2 hours.
You might find out what is going on during the daytime cycle by running that curve.

Also, if Petunia is begging you for food, try to give her a BG test then, to see what her BG levels are. She may be telling you she is too low.

Have you tried redirecting her attention? So instead of feeding Petunia when she meows, give her some lovin' like pets or a brushing instead. It's what I do with my civie (non-diabetic) cat Dancer. Or pick Dancer up and put her in my lap. That helps, especially when she reaches her paws up and pats my leg. Then I know she wants some "lap time" and this former feral colony cat is not a big lap kitty.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Understood that you can not test much during the day, as you are working.
But if you have a day off, would you be willing to run a 12 hour curve?
That would be testing from one pre-shot to the next pre-shot time, with a BG test every 2 hours.
You might find out what is going on during the daytime cycle by running that curve.

Also, if Petunia is begging you for food, try to give her a BG test then, to see what her BG levels are. She may be telling you she is too low.
.
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I’m planning to do a curve tomorrow. Reduced to .25 tonight & will probably get a +4 & +6

Just got a +2 199 she had a full can of FF with her shot & she’s still begging! Gave her 1/4 of the raw mini patty. This stuff was recommended by a friend for my picky, allergic, IBD kitty & I can’t find it on Dr Lisa’s list. They all love it though! I’m thinking the carbs can’t be bad?
 
Remember, Dr Lisa's list hasn't been updated since 2017, and new foods are released all the time.

Looks like that mini-patty is in the range of 15% carbs, so higher than the FF.

One way to find out if that Vital Essentials mini-patty (being a bit higher in carbs), is effecting Petunia's BG levels. is to eliminate it from Petunia's diet and see what her BG levels do in response.

I used this carb calculator, which gives you at least a rough idea of the carb content.
http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
 
Deb & Wink said:
Remember, Dr Lisa's list hasn't been updated since 2017, and new foods are released all the time.

Looks like that mini-patty is in the range of 15% carbs, so higher than the FF.

One way to find out if that Vital Essentials mini-patty (being a bit higher in carbs), is effecting Petunia's BG levels. is to eliminate it from Petunia's diet and see what her BG levels do in response.

I used this carb calculator, which gives you at least a rough idea of the carb content.
http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
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Interesting...I just found someone asked the carbs & the company said 1% What would make it so high? Are there any freeze dried foods that are low carb? I know Stella & Chewys is popular but didn’t see that one on her chart either. Trying to make my life a little easier if I can find a food that they can all eat!
 
PureBites is a single-ingredient protein freeze-dried treat ... I've heard about Orijen freeze-dried as well. I just baked chicken or turkey and freeze the excess until I need it, it's cheaper that way.
 
Panic said:
PureBites is a single-ingredient protein freeze-dried treat ... I've heard about Orijen freeze-dried as well. I just baked chicken or turkey and freeze the excess until I need it, it's cheaper that way.
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@Panic I was looking for a complete food and rabbit is what Petey is currently eating. I have the Pure Bites as a treat. It would just make my life speaker if I could find something they all could eat but I have to keep the allergic, IBD cat in mind.
 
Oop sorry, thought you were only talking about treats. Hmm I'm trying to remember the IBD foods available. Zwipeak I think, maaaybe some varieties of Tiki Cat. Have you thought about making your own food? I know a lot of IBD kitty owners just make their own, it's either cheaper or the same cost as the IBD diets (depending on the novel protein).
 
Chicken is the only one so far. He’s on Atopica but I would love to try to get him off it. We have been through a couple of foods. Vet wanted him on Duck but he just doesn’t seem to like it. I tried Ziwi Peak Lamb & Venison but he only ate those for a few weeks. I’m actually probably just kidding myself into thinking I can get them all on the same food! He just started the rabbit this week & so far loves it but that could change!

I can’t even stomach the thought of making food! I have thought about it for years but it’s just not for me. Also making that more difficult is the chicken allergy. Sigh...I would much rather deal with diabetes than IBD & allergies!

About to go update her SS but this curve is flat....
 
Shelley & Jess said:
I've had really good luck (anti-jinx) with RAWZ pate and both cats absolutely love it.

Has worked great for both IBD and FD.

Website https://rawznaturalpetfood.com/cat/rendered-free-cat-food/
has all the nutritional information listed together here: https://rawznaturalpetfood.com/why-rawz/nutritional-comparison-rawz-cat/
(or you can look it up individually when you click on a product)
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I saw Rawz mentioned on the IBD Facebook page. I will have to keep that one in mind!

I took a glance at your SS & saw you mentioned a digital caliper. Can you tell me about that? Thanks!
 
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