Peeps needs insulin again.. thinking on joining Lev land

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Michele and Peeps

Michele and Peeps

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I have some background information - I am not sure if it will help - but just try and stop me from talking about my Peeps!

Peeps is 14 years old this year. She was diagnosed diabetic shortly after the New Year of 2008. She hypoed in September of 2008 (because her human is an idiot and didn't home test), but has not been on insulin since.

This April 30th, she went into the vet because she had been vomiting red tinted blood. She hadn't eaten, and she was not keeping water down. An x-ray showed cancer in her colon. My vet gave her an injection of prednisone, and we went home to debate what steps were best for Peeps. Luckily, she has responded to the prednisone - she didn't vomit again, and she has been "normal" in her behaviors and eating patterns.

Unfortunately, her bg numbers have gone up by 100+. She was typically reading at an 80 since September of 2008. I told myself if she constantly read above a 200, she would go back on insulin. Yesterday after 4 tests, she only read below 200 on one occasion.

I have no solid reasons to want to put her on Levemir. She was a vetsulin kitty when she was taking insulin. I do not want to go that route with her again, as it has been deemed potentially unsafe. Michele&Molly and I chat quite frequently, and as you all know, Molly is a Lev kitty - so by guilt of association, I feel comfortable with it.

Now, for my huge dilemma... I want Peeps to be comfortable for her last unknown amount of days. This means she should go back on insulin. The only problem I have is, my vet told me the only way I will know Peeps needs a booster shot of the prednisone is when she regresses back into a very sick kitty. She told me the prednisone injection can last anywhere between 2 weeks and 6 weeks. That variable makes me extremely uncomfortable. While we did chat about other options on giving her that medication, it sounds like I can't start orally dosing her until her current stuff wears off. So, my question is - do I jump on the insulin right away, or wait until she's on daily prednisone and it's easier for me to regulate?

Also - is Levemir a good choice for a cat who was OTJ and is going back on because of an unrelated medical condition?

I haven't spoken to my vet yet about putting Peeps back on insulin. I want to be ready for her when I do decide what to do - or need hardcore medical questions answered.
 
I have never heard of prednisone that lasts 6 weeks. Normally it can be given at any time and at any dose (there doesn't seem to be a overdose limit). I take cortisone daily 3x a day for the past 8 years. I have had doses as high as 1000mg a day for 5 days (as i.v.) and I could feel the effects wearing off (ie. I felt sick again) after 20 hours. Cortisone does cause BG to rise even in a non diabetic it can trigger a cortisone induced hyperglycemia and should be treated in any case. The insulin will not interfer with the cortisone and Peeps will feel better when her BG is under control but when the cancer starts progressing again she will appear more sick and you will know it is time to restart the cortisone therapy. The cortisone she recieved is longer present in her body but the effects it had are presisting. Cortisone works to reduce inflamation (it's the most powerful anti inflammitory that exsists) it alters the immune system by supressing white blood cells nad certain tumor growth factors so it slows down the growth of the cancer. Cortisone is a stress hormone (which is why stress raises BG, through the release of cortisone) when we are stressed physically or extreme emotional stress our body releases cortisone which is what triggers the fight or flight response, we feel stronger, faster, see and breathe better, and blood flow increases in the brain and muscles. In general it makes us feel better it's effects can last for minutes or days. I think most of the improvement you are seeing is because the although the cortisone has worn off it reduced the swelling and agressiveness of the cancer, it worked appitite stimulating and allowed Peeps to be able to eat again and move around with less pain, all that leads to a better over all health status which hopefully will stay for a while.

As far which insulin it really doesn't matter, I would suggest either Levemir or Lantus, as both work the same. If you will be giving prednisone regularly you may find it raises the BG more than peeps would without it and you may need a slightly higher dose to keep the BG in a good range. Both insulins are a good choice to make Peeps more comfortable and will be less "bumpy" than some of the shorter acting insulins. Of course you will be hometesting this time so she will be safer as well. Good luck with whatever you choose and hope Peeps can be as comfortable as possible for while longer.
 
Hi Michele and sweet Peeps,

I am sorry things have come along the way they have- with the cancer. I commend you as you seem to be taking it like a real trooper, going about the business of making Peeps comfortable for however long there is left.

The first hand experience from Monique seems very valuable. Knowing that the cort raises BG's is interesting. I didn't know that.

If it were me, I'd just double check with my vet but would start insulin as soon as possible so as not to compound issues with high BG's and the fallout they can cause.

I would suggest either if the insulins- lantus or levemir. I have used both and both have very similar actions and price. I like the levemir b/c it is the FIRST insulin I have been able to use to the very last drop in the cartridge ( 3ml) and not had to toss it! ( we started with vetsulin, then lantus, then lev)

The L's act very differently than vetsulin, so it is a bit of a learning curve, but nothing you can't handle. Starting doses are small- .5u or 1u, then hold the dose for 3 to 5 days, the longer the better, for settle time and re-evaluate based on nadir numbers, not PS numbers.

The caveat being, of course, if Peeps goes too low before the settle time, then reduce dose immediately.

Others will be along to add their experience and suggestions. Weekends are slow all over the board, but hang in there....they'll be along.

(((hugs))) and strength to you as Peeps progresses.
 
Hi Michele, I read your profile/blog and your little Peeps has certainly been through a lot as have you. You are a good Mom to her and she is lucky to have you. She is very pretty.

I also read your posts on Health and wonder if you were able to get a definitive diagnosis of the cancer with an ultrasound? Maybe after that you could have a better idea of whether or not you should go ahead with more pred?

Regardless, welcome to our lev group and if you do decide to go with the Levemir I am sure you will love it like all of us do here. Levemir is Tigger's third insulin and I wish I had switched a long time ago.
 
Michele, I am so osrry to hear the Peeps has cancer.

I can recommend levemir for a kitty previously on vetsulin (as both of mine were). I am very happy with it. As you know, or figured out, the steroid is causing the BG to rise and under the circumstances you have to work the insulin around the other treatments. If I understand you correctly he is higher, but only once over 200? Then I would suggest a very tiny dose of Lev, maybe start at .25u when you can be there to spot test the next few days.

As for the schedule of shots, I know that when I had a cat with lymphoma, she got shots of Depo-Medrol every two weeks like clockwork. Depo is a long acting corticosteroid. It worked very well for her for about 7 months and then the effect started to fade (become less and less noticeable). She did live for 9 months after diagnosis when the prognosis was 6 weeks to 3 months.

(((hugs))) I know it's hard.
 
You've received some excellent welcomes and excellent information, so I will simply chime in and say that Levemir or Lantus would be better than the Vetsulin, even despite the manufacturer warnings on the Vetsulin.

I truly want to say I admire your stamina given this no doubt disheartening prognosis for Ms. Peeps and especially your wanting to do everything you can to keep her comfortable, including going back on insulin!

I am not familiar with the different steroids, although they seem to be a usual treatment for certain types of feline cancers. I'm not sure what the differences are between which one is used, if one is preferred over another for different cancers. Perhaps you can bring that up with your vet, if it's OK to try a different type which may not affect the blood glucose as much, although apparently they all will to some extent.

We'd be happy to help you if you decide to use Levemir for her.
 
Monique & Spooky said:
I have never heard of prednisone that lasts 6 weeks. Normally it can be given at any time and at any dose (there doesn't seem to be a overdose limit). I take cortisone daily 3x a day for the past 8 years. I have had doses as high as 1000mg a day for 5 days (as i.v.) and I could feel the effects wearing off (ie. I felt sick again) after 20 hours. Cortisone does cause BG to rise even in a non diabetic it can trigger a cortisone induced hyperglycemia and should be treated in any case. The insulin will not interfer with the cortisone and Peeps will feel better when her BG is under control but when the cancer starts progressing again she will appear more sick and you will know it is time to restart the cortisone therapy. The cortisone she recieved is longer present in her body but the effects it had are presisting. Cortisone works to reduce inflamation (it's the most powerful anti inflammitory that exsists) it alters the immune system by supressing white blood cells nad certain tumor growth factors so it slows down the growth of the cancer. Cortisone is a stress hormone (which is why stress raises BG, through the release of cortisone) when we are stressed physically or extreme emotional stress our body releases cortisone which is what triggers the fight or flight response, we feel stronger, faster, see and breathe better, and blood flow increases in the brain and muscles. In general it makes us feel better it's effects can last for minutes or days. I think most of the improvement you are seeing is because the although the cortisone has worn off it reduced the swelling and agressiveness of the cancer, it worked appitite stimulating and allowed Peeps to be able to eat again and move around with less pain, all that leads to a better over all health status which hopefully will stay for a while.
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.....

Thank you very much for that Monique & Spooky. I have to admit, I did prepare myself for something terrible when we went to the vet for bloody vomit - but I was in complete shambles the second Peeps' doctor said cancer. In hindsight, it was stupid of me to prepare. Hearing the words and expecting the words are two different galaxies... but... I'm sure Dr. Meaghan said some of these things to me, that were lost in the sobbing and sniffling. I should have clarified in my original post that the only things that stand out to me from that examination are the x-ray, and squeezing my kitty. Regardless, thank you very much for writing your experiences and knowledge out for me.
 
Melissa&Paul-Kyle said:
I would suggest either if the insulins- lantus or levemir. I have used both and both have very similar actions and price. I like the levemir b/c it is the FIRST insulin I have been able to use to the very last drop in the cartridge ( 3ml) and not had to toss it! ( we started with vetsulin, then lantus, then lev)
Click to expand...

I was wondering if you could expand on this "I have been able to use to the very last drop in the cartridge" part? Is this an extended shelf life? I threw out quite a few bottles of the vetsulin because it was clearly losing it's cloudiness... Is this not a concern with the Lev?
 
pamela and tigger said:
I also read your posts on Health and wonder if you were able to get a definitive diagnosis of the cancer with an ultrasound? Maybe after that you could have a better idea of whether or not you should go ahead with more pred?
Click to expand...

No, Peeps did not get an ultrasound. I actually was not able to get in touch with the vet until just this past Wednesday to report that my kitty was feeling better and looking better. I specifically asked if there was anything else that we should do, and my dr had answered no, that if the prednisone was working we could stick with that. I will clarify this point with her and make sure she wasn't on a different page than I. I am finding it difficult to keep more than three thoughts in my head when it comes to my Peeps. The first being her, the second being quality of life, the third being everything else - which should take a thousand spaces instead of one...
 
Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
I can recommend levemir for a kitty previously on vetsulin (as both of mine were). I am very happy with it. As you know, or figured out, the steroid is causing the BG to rise and under the circumstances you have to work the insulin around the other treatments. If I understand you correctly he is higher, but only once over 200? Then I would suggest a very tiny dose of Lev, maybe start at .25u when you can be there to spot test the next few days.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your experiences with switching to Lev from Vet. Just as clarification, here are the numbers I recorded:

246 bg 9:40am
226 bg 11:40am (ate ate 11:50 for sure)
181 bg 2:40pm
213 bg 5:40pm

Just as a quick fact - she is free fed, and I would actually like to attempt to keep it that way.
 
Vicky & Gandalf said:
I am not familiar with the different steroids, although they seem to be a usual treatment for certain types of feline cancers. I'm not sure what the differences are between which one is used, if one is preferred over another for different cancers. Perhaps you can bring that up with your vet, if it's OK to try a different type which may not affect the blood glucose as much, although apparently they all will to some extent.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for these points - they are excellent. Luckily, my vet is a diabetic dog owner so she'll be able to answer lots of questions through her own trial and error and her own personal experiences. Plus, I think my situation hits home with her quite often, even though I'm a kitty keeper.


I'd like to thank you all (I was going to individually - but my mind is gone) for your quick responses and support! You've all given me some points to ponder and mull over (not a bad thing in the least!) and I appreciate personal experiences and opinions. I may not be new to diabetes, but I'm new to Levemir, cancer, and diabetes all rolled up into one. Personally, I'd like to think I know Peeps better than she knows herself, which is quite selfish, but I am trying to do right by her. It is so hard when she cannot tell me exactly what she wants, nor does she understand why she feels like crap, why I stab her in the ears all the time, or when I cry and tell her I'm going to miss her.

A part of me wishes I knew just how much I loved her before her demise was laid at my feet, but if this kind of pain is what I needed to realize my love, with time to prepare for her leaving me, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'll never love again, as I have loved her.
 
Michele, with those numbers she definately needs insulin - at least for now.

I know Jess posted on another thread about getting a definate diagnosis of cancer before treating or not treating. If it is something else, you don't want to overlook that because the treatment might be very different. And Jess is right, colon cancer probably would not cause bloody vomit. It could cause bloody stools.

Just a little observation here which is not meant to knock your vet because I don't know her at all... cats and dogs have very different experiences with diabetes, so her personal experience with her dog, except for the emotions you might have, may not correspond to what Peeps is going through. The differences I know about are diet and how they metabolize insulin. Vetsulin works well for dogs, often on a single shot per day (or did before the quality issues), but it doesn't work that well for cats and almost never as a once a day shot. I think you will find levemir a better insulin for her because it doesn't come on so fast and doesn't wear off so fast (as vetsulin).

And, yes, you can use it up to the last drop - something I never did with vetsulin, even with those tiny 2.5 ml vials. It is handled differently - never shaken or rolled - and with care you can use up the vial or catridge (most of us use the penfill cartridges). Beau went OTJ before I got half way done with the first cartridge and it sat in my fridge unused for about 3 months before he needed a few days of it and then a month after that Jeddie went back on insulin and I used it up. It was about 9 months after I started it.
 
Just wanted to jump in real quickly and let you know that i'm thinking about you Michele. Have you considered maybe splitting a Lev order with someone? I never even thought about it but does our new board have a supply closet like the old boards? That's the perfect place to ask. I would offer to split an order but we're pretty good over here on amount and like Sheila said, we are able to use the Lev pen refill cartridge right to the very end (i cringe at how many PZI vials we threw away over the years!).

Keep us updated on how Peeps is doing and what the vet says. All my love and hugs, 1LNY

p.s. see, didn't i tell you how great everyone is here!!!
 
I guess I should go through what I do remember of the vet's appointment re: the bloody vomit.

She wasn't gushing blood. It was pink tinted, and when I wiped it up with a paper towel to bring to the vet - just around the edges of the wetness was even what you'd begin considering red (after it had dried for an hour or so). There were tiny clots in her late night vomit, but nothing that made me feel she was even more in danger than she had been a few hours before. When I knew she was sick, I debated the ER vet, but the two times I've been there (and almost $1000), they told me to go to my regular vet in the morning.

My vet had checked Peeps over with her hands, and discussed doing an x-ray and some sort of a blood test.. I want to say she called it a CBC. She did the x-ray first, and since there was obviously something wrong she came to talk to me.

I had viewed the x-ray with her while she explained what we were looking at. Her stomach was empty, except for gasses, and she had a little bit poo in her intestines. From the side view, it appeared that one of Peep's kidneys(?) was extremely enlarged, but on the view from her laying on her back, it was clear it was her intestines. Part of the intestine looked as if it had stopped. The fine lining of the wall had appeared to close shut, and it almost looked like a cotton ball in two sections of the intestine. On the x-ray, there was a gap of about 1-2inches between the blobs.

When asked about the bloody vomit - my vet had told me that since it wasn't thick and coffee ground like - she believes it to be a byproduct of so much vomiting. When Peeps was ill, she would go to the water dish, drink, and about 15 minutes later throw up. If she threw up more than once, it wasn't until the latter piles that there would be any bloody tint to it. She did throw up before I left for school that morning, but I didn't think anything of it. Kitties throw up.... It wasn't until I got home several, several, several, hours later that she came running out to meet me and threw up the tinted blood. So my vet contributed the blood to the act of continuously throwing up, and having an irritated, empty stomach.

Specifically, when the dr had said cancer, I asked how sure she could be from the x-ray. She told me she was very sure. So then she described my options. She said they could attempt to cut out the cancer and hope for the best (she gave me 6-12 months survival time if everything went perfect), but she suggested exploratory surgery to find out if the cancer was in other organs too. The exploratory surgery was completely turned down by me. My vet then suggested that (a different office, as they don't have the equipment) they do an ultrasound, but she said if I was looking to cut out the cancer in a procedure, the ultrasound might not reveal everything before they got inside.

On December 12, 2009 - Peeps went in because she was having trouble pooping. She is extremely private about her litter box habits. If you walk in on her doing her stuff, she will stop if she can, or give you a look of murder and run away after she is done. I knew there was something wrong with her because she kept going between the litter boxes, straining, then hopping out and continuing to push, then rubbing her behind on the floor. Unfortunately, this visit was on a Saturday and they had a rent-a-vet running the office. She told me to get mineral oil and inject it orally for 2 days until Peeps did her stuff. Peeps ended up going about 10 hours later.

And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shine up my vet and her dogs. I just meant that since she lives with diabetes at home, and not just on a professional level, she can understand Peeps and her insulin & what I am going through with it.
 
I'm not sure if any of my experience will help you and Peeps or not, but perhaps may give you some options.

In 2008 Gandalf developed a "thyroid slip," something seen in Hyper-T cats, basically a tumor on the thyroid. We did the blood tests for that and they were inconclusive. So my vet did a biopsy of the nodule and that too came back inconclusive. He seemed to present with some Hyper-T symptoms, specifically difficult regulation, thickened claws and despite a decent appetite, he didn't gain weight. He didn't lose it either, so not really a concern. Our next step was the radiation test which is the only conclusive test for Hyper-T. That was negative. I had the test done at the University of IL vet school where he had a complete workup in addition to the radiation test. The vet we saw there told me straight up he did not think he was Hyper-T. He was right and he in fact gave me some suggestions about how to use Levemir - this university is probably the only one in the U.S. which has done trials with Levemir in cats and though brief, it concludes that Levemir use in felines deserves further studies. In short, I felt I could trust them and I continue to give Gandalf a small amount of daily fluids, also a suggestion from that vet for his slight kidney insufficiency, which really has not gotten worse in almost 2 years.

The tumor, however, continued to grow and by fall it was the size of a hazelnut! So my vet biopsied it again and this time it came back with possibly cancerous cells. So back to the university we went, this time to the oncology department where they did an ultrasound and concluded they could remove the tumor. The surgeon asked me, more or less, "Is the surgery worth it FOR HIM." My response was, "Absolutely!" His quality of life then was excellent and I saw no reason to let the tumor get worse.

They removed 2 parathyroids as well as one half of his thyroid. The tumor was not on his thyroid, it involved the parathyroids on that side and is considered rare in cats. The surgeon said he was confident he got all of it, to watch his calcium levels over the next few days. They even called me to tell me to come get him the next day because he would not eat and was so miserable. The girl told me twice, "We think he'd do better at home." I was nervous to bring him home so early, but thankful that they did not want him to be so miserable any longer than necessary.

I cannot recommend a university vet school enough for diagnostics as well as treatment beyond what can be done in the local vet clinics. It is not cheap treatment, I used Care Credit on a 12 month payment plan, but as long as I paid it off within that 12 months, I was not charged any interest. There is some controversy about Care Credit, because if you can't pay it off within the allotted time, the interest rate is tremendous (28% now I believe) but someone who's responsible with their credit should have no problem.

And to the surgeon's question, "Was it worth it?" Emphatically Yes! That surgery was in December '08 and a year and one half later he is still doing about as well as you could expect a 5 year long diabetic 17 year old cat with arthritis and now prone to pancreatitis to be doing!

I know you're doing the best you can for Peeps, according to your vet's diagnosis, but there are other options through other avenues which, even if they conclude the same thing, may give her some more quality time with you.
 
I talked to the other vet last night, as dr Meaghan wasn't it. He is the owner of the practice, and the dr my mom has dealt with since the 80's. He pretty much just does the surgeries now. He actually dealt with Peeps' diabetes in the beginning.

Dr. Pete thought that it was risky to jump on insulin therapy right away. He wants me to attempt to test her urine - and wants it around the 500 mark before starting insulin again. If I am unable to Peeps to pee for me, he wants her bg to be upwards of 300. His reasoning is that she isn't showing other symptoms - like increased drinking and peeing- and it isn't her body upping the insulin, it's the medicine she is on, and he feels it is risky to put her on insulin again when the steroids could wear off and she could hypo.

He also didn't feel that the prednisone would help for long, as it's a non specific therapy. We talked a bit about the miracles he had preformed, but all of his stories were about younger animals - and their lifespans weren't much more than a year in the best case scenarios. He said he could preform the exploratory surgery and see what's going on, but in his experience, this type of cancer is typically aggressive. This is about the time I started sobbing and got off the phone.

I think testing her urine is going to be next to impossible. I will have to lock her up in my bedroom and hover every time she gets close to the box. This will upset the other two cats, as my bedroom is the lounge. So can anyone help me with ketone sticks? Does the urine have to be fresh when you use them (if I locked her up overnight and found a puddle in the box the next morning)?

As for the Care Credit - I doubt that I would get approved/it would be good if I did get it. I haven't worked in 2 years, and I have no income - I have student loans.
 
Michele,

It sounds like you are dealing with alot of stuff right now- not just Peeps illnesses and possible cancers, but also financial issues as well. For what its worth, you have my sympathies for all of these miseries.

Your writing seems so strong, though, and it seems you have the courage to do whatever is needed to keep Peeps comfortable for wahtebver time comfort is needed. (((hugs)))

Your vet brings up a point that I have wrestled with myself since learning of FD...illness/medicine induced high BG levels.

I'm not at all certain if there is much of a difference as far as treatment is concerned, between diabetic high BG's and illness high BG's. I do understand the point your vet makes about sudden drops of BG when the meds wear off, but I also understand how high BG's can efect systems.

I am wondering just how far along things are if it is more than necessary to try insulin therapy if it is even merited. I wonder of it is a quality over quantity issue right now.

One thing that stumps me is why the vet prefers you to monitor urine over bg levels? you have hometested, right? BG is much more accurate than urine testing...

if urine testing is what you have to do, though, I understand that you'll need to test the ph over the litter without pee in it to make sure the litter itself doesn't change the test strip.

If that all works out, testing old urine is okay, but not ideal. The longer it sits, the weaker the test result will be. But at least you will have results!

Remember that urine results will tell you what a glucose level was when the urine was formed int he bladder hours earlier, not when it is released or when you test it after finding it, possibly hours later.

Just FYI. It may not matter if the glucose level doesn't really fluctuate with medicine as it would with FD.

What do you think about posting on community or health to draw attention to this post- just copy/paste the link addy of this post into a post on health or community to se hat others might have to say about the insulin use with medicine induced higher BG's.

Hang in there...you are doing the best you can for sweet Peeps and I am proud of you for all your efforts and seemingly level head.

(((hugs)))
 
Honestly, testing urine in this case is, well, stupid. For all the hassles you mention and the inaccuracy that Melissa mentions, the blood tests are much more useful, accurate and feasible for you. Locking her in your room will upset her and raise her BG (possibly).

I also disagree with your vet about not using insulin until she is in the 300s. Unless you are going to just give up on any treatment and enjoy her for the few remaining weeks she may have, she needs insulin because the steroids/illness is raising the BG levels. In everything I have ever read on this board, treating the BG with insulin as needed to work aorund the other illnesses or meds is always the advice. Prednisone will not wear off so fast that a hypo can happen if you are testing every preshot and giving a conservative dose (not trying to dose her down to 50 or something, but trying to keep her below 150 or 125). And levemir is going to act more gently than vetsulin did so the potential to hypo in the scenario he outlined is slim.

But don't take our word only for that. Post on Health about workign insulin around cancer or other diseases. Many folks have dealt with this and can offer their experiences. If Jess posts (Jess and Earl) pay particular attention to what she says as she is a vet tech.

I still think a more definate diagnosis of cancer needs to be made with real diagnostics. I took Beau in for tests due to upper respiratory symtoms and the vet (not my usual one) took an xray and pretty much said she thought he had lung cancer from the shadows on his lungs. I was devastated. Folks here said he needed to see a pulmonary specialist, which I couldn't afford. Two weeks later he had a follow up xrray and his lungs were clear. I noticed that the expoosure of the two xrays was very different and I think the first one was not exposed properly. Xrays are just not that conclusive, I think.
 
If you want to try the urine testing, try this:

Completely cover the litter with saran wrap/plastic wrap. Wrap it over the sides and sit the box on it underneath so it stays in place, making sure to push it down on to the top of the litter and overlap it over itself. I thought for sure this would freak them out, but Gandalf used the box as if he didn't even notice. Cats usually don't use their claws when they scratch litter, so they may not tear holes in it. His feet made indentations in the litter and pushed the plastic down in it as well, so the urine pooled in those depressions. Very easy to get a clean test.

That method was recommended years ago here on the board for ketone testing.
 
I would just like to be clear, I am not treating the cancer, she is not going to get surgery to remove any growths, and I am not going to wave on this fact because they aren't promising her a full life - they are only promising 6-12 months with a 100% best case scenario. I am treating her symptoms from the cancer.

My vet is more interested in how her body is reacting to the higher bg levels than what her bg numbers are. She is not showing the other two huge symptoms of diabetes - increased water intake nor frequent urination. If she was, it sounded like he would be less leery about giving her insulin, and has asked me to keep him posted on those two factors.

As for posting on community, I am afraid to. I spend more of my time defending my view points and Peeps' history, than reading answer to my questions.

Also, thanks for the tips on catching urine. I remember running around after the dog, when the vet requested a urine sample, with a bowl. It was so easy in winter... No chasing until she had done her stuff then quick scoop up the snow!
 
Even if you and your vet decide to not give insulin, please do keep us posted on how she is doing Michele.

I am still holding out hope that this isn't cancer and I will keep you and your Peeps in my prayers that she will be with you for a long, long time yet.

Try to hang in there and again, she is lucky she has such a loving, caring mom as you. ((hugs))
 
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