Peeka vet update

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Peter (Peeka&Boo), Aug 18, 2020.

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  1. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Good afternoon everyone! Not sure how to feel about her BG tests done today. Firstly, Dr was very kind, answered the questions and even printed a copy of her BG test results today.
    8:30 BG 297
    11:30 BG 390
    2:30 542

    obviously these numbers are discouraging. He did recommend 3 units 2x daily and encouraged the in home testing, so I suppose we will try that tonight. I’m feeling pretty lousy, like I’m the one inadvertently causing this. Her hind legs aren’t looking any better either, it sucks watching her struggle like this.
     
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Peter you gave me a heart attack! GA means a kitty has passed away
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Here it means Gone ahead or Guardian Angel lol
     
  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The numbers may be high but this is early into her journey.
    It's going to be ok. :bighug:
     
  5. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Didn’t even realize I had selected that, I’m sorry! She yelled at me to put her on her favorite counter since she couldn’t jump up there.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Please edit your title
     
  7. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
    Yelling is good she has spunk!
     
  8. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    I think I did to edit with no prefix.
     
  9. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Did you discuss another insulin? What time did she get the insulin this am? So this it how Vetsulin works it peaks early and then it starts to go down. You can see she went for the lowest to the highest number and that’s because it’s not a long acting insulin o_O

    Remember the legs won’t improve until the diabetes is regulated. It could get worse even you have to prepare for that and know it’s part of the process. I strongly recommend you switch insulin. 3 units is too high a dose to go up to without home testing. I’d stay where you are until you get the home testing going. For future reference, here we advise increase and decrease in dose by .25 units not a full 1 unit because when you speed up the process like that, you risk passing right through the ideal dose
     
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  10. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    She is still her vocal, funny self, just with the inability to move the way she is used to. That’s what hurts the most, I feel like my playful cat is still there, her body just isn’t currently cooperating.
     
  11. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Youre good!
     
  12. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It will and when that happens you wont believe the joy it brings
     
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  13. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Minnie used to do that too! One night she woke me up screaming because she had peed on her bed and didn’t stop until I changed up the cover and pee pad and then climbed right back into the bed and fell asleep lol!
     
  14. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    We did discuss a new insulin, he even mentioned one that is discussed on this forum, I just can’t remember the name right away. He did acknowledge that this was a faster acting one, but didn’t last quite as long. I’m going to start testing in the AM before her first shot of insulin, and look to order one of the recommended insulin’s tomorrow.
     
  15. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I thk vets prescribe vetsulin because its readily available...for DOGS
     
  16. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Please let us know which before you order so we can give you advice
     
  17. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    lmao
     
  18. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    That could be the case, truthfully if it weren’t for this group, I wouldn’t have known there was a difference in insulin’s.
     
  19. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    And it’s cheap too. I looked it up when my friend mentioned the price to me and tons of articles popped up about how it’s not the best insulin for cats. So I stuck with Lantus and happy I did!
     
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  20. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    trudat
     
  21. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    I think it may have been Lantus that he mentioned. Is that one that is easy to purchase in the states? I live in TX if that helps.
     
  22. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My tip for you is google everything. Seriously. That’s even how I found this forum ha! You have to become an expert so you can advocate for your cats. Good practice for you with a baby on the way. Soon you’ll be advocating for her or him too! :)
     
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  23. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Lantus is more expensive most order it from Marks out of Canada
     
  24. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Lantus is the one Minnie is on and I love it. You can get it a any human pharmacy, but we all order it from Canada because it’s 1/3 of the price there. Mark’s Pharmacy is the one we use.
     
  25. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Lantus vial Insulin 10ml? 100u/ml
     
  26. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    This is all good Peter. I just want to say again, do not get discouraged. You’ve changed course and are on the right path now. It took me 6 months before I did that, so I know what you’re going through but cats are resilient and she’ll be her old self soon. Hey if Minnie recovered from diabetes, neuropathy, IBD, pneumonia and cardiomyopathy, Peeka will be just fine :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  27. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You want the pen. The vial is way too much and it will expire before you use it all up.
     
  28. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You can get it for about $88 if you have a goldrx card. In Canada we get 5 pens for about $165 so it’s a great deal. The great thing about the pens is that they’re good for a year unopened.

    Lantus pen at Walmart
     
  29. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Lantus Solostar Pen can?
     
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  30. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Ah ok, the mobile site wasn’t working too well with me. Maybe that’s why I can’t see it. Will probably have to make the purchase when i can get in front of a desktop or laptop.
     
  31. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Very true! I’m learning a lot more than I thought possible about feline diabetes. I had seen a lot of people post about the ups and downs and I suppose this is just part of it.
     
  32. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    thank you for your encouragement. I know i can do a better job of riding the waves and maintaining the positive attitude, I just wear my heart on my sleeves sometimes and truly want the best for my sweet cats.
     
  33. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    We know Peter it def shows. You're doing just fine. It can be a roller coaster at times but I believe you are up to the task Your WIFE is a very lucky lady
     
  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    My kinda cat. :cat:

    My kinda human.

    :D


    Mogs
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  35. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    How much does Peeka weigh, Peter?


    Mogs
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  36. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    I think she weighed in at 8 lbs at the last check.
     
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  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Was her Vetsulin dose given after the 08:30 BG test? If not, what time did she get her insulin injection?

    .
     
  38. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Given this morning at 6:00 The 8:30 BG was done at the vet office shortly after she got there. That was the 2 unit still of Vetsulin
     
  39. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Typical Vetsulin then
    They’re lucky to have a dad like you!! So will your human babies :cat:
     
  40. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Remember that with Vetsulin she needs food onboard at least 30 minutes before the shot because of how fast and hard it hits okay?
     
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  41. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Got it. Will update tomorrow, early when testing Peeks for GB and advice on dosage. Right now she is laying no one of her favorite couches, probably worn out from a long day.
     
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  42. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Peter.


    Peeka - Weight 8lb - Vetsulin - Starting Dose 2IU - Current Dose 2IU - Currently eating Royal Canin Glycobalance high carb dry food. (c. 28% carbs on dry matter basis).

    Converted into 'spreadsheet-speak', Peeka's results today are as follows:

    AMPS - 06:30 [BG not known] Dose 2 IU Vetsulin.
    AM+2 - 08:30 - 297
    AM+5 - 11:30 - 390
    AM+8 - 14:30 - 542

    It's not clear what's happening without Peeka's preshot BG level.

    If we assume for now that it was higher than the +2 BG then it looks like she may be having a relatively early nadir (although she may have been lower at +3 or +4 with this insulin) and by +8 the dose has pretty much pooped out (again, expected with this insulin).

    If Peeka was my cat, before increasing the dose I would like to do a couple of days home testing to get a better picture of what's happening at preshot and in the early hours after dosing for both AM and PM cycles (tests at +3 on each cycle would be very helpful).

    You will also need to start testing Boo for a few days to see how he is doing before even considering the start of any food transition.

    I would also want to have a very in-depth discussion with my vet about transitioning both cats to a lower carb food. The carb load is very high in the Royal Canin dry food and is probably what has Peeka at such high BG levels at the moment. Both her dose and Boo's are very likely to need to be reduced.

    If Peeka were my cat, I would prefer to stick at the current dose (assuming she stays safe on it for the time being) and go for a controlled and monitored food transition and then review your kitties' status again with your vet.

    If you switch to low carb wet food, you will need to be extremely careful because the difference in carb loads should have a BIG impact on BG levels.

    All food transitions need to be done slowly - for all cats - because introduction of the new food can often cause digestive upsets. Tummy troubles can lead to the cat not wanting to eat at all, and that is a place you doubly don't want to go to when the cats need insuiln.

    Typically a food transition goes as follows (non-diabetic cats):

    75% : 25%, Old Diet : New Diet - hold for at least 2-3 days, or longer if any GI disturbances.
    50% : 50%, Old Diet : New Diet - hold for at least 2-3 days, or longer if any GI disturbances.
    25% : 75%, Old Diet : New Diet - hold for at least 2-3 days, or longer if any GI disturbances.
    100% New Diet. (Give self pat on back and, if one had a mind, a good stiff gin to calm much-shredded nerves.)

    On top of all that lot, throughout the transition you will need to closely monitor blood glucose levels and insulin doses for both cats - highly likely needing to reduce those doses - to keep Peeka and Boo safe and well.

    That's a fair bit of juggling, and I think the best approach is to have a window clear and a good plan of attack before going on food manoeuvres.

    It shines out of your posts how much you and your wife love your little furry charges, and we can sense the urgency of your desire to help them; we all feel that way. But we have put the safety of our little ones before our desire to see them all better - by yesterday!!!

    For a safe and successful transition, getting all your ducks in a row first is a good place to start:

    * clear schedule to accommodate days to closely monitor insulin levels as each step of the food transition is made (1 step each weekend over a period of weeks?)
    * work on testing technique and build up a good foundation of BG data to see where your starting point is.
    * establish a line of communication with the vet should you need to seek his help during the switch.
    * make sure you have a well-stocked hypo toolbox that can cater for all eventualities.
    * get in a bumper supply of test strips for your meter!

    When all that is in place you should be good to go.

    Hope this makes sense. I'm so tired I'm struggling to read the screen. This is just my two penn'orth. Other members may suggest alternative approaches.

    Oíche mhaith, a chairde.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  43. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Well, unfortunately this morning was unable to get an AMPS reading. Peeks is still annoyed with me and was having none of sitting still for me and even less so to get a sample. Thankfully I get home earlier today so I’ll be able to get some practice in before our PMPS.
     
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  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Cats. :banghead:

    Morning, Peter.

    I suggest just putting Peeka at her testing station, giving her fusses and praise, and - most important of all - a nummy treat. Then move her somewhere else and let her go about her business. If you keep repeating that she should hopefully start associating her testing spot with nice things happening. Fingers and paws crossed... :nailbiting:


    Mogs
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  45. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    this is all incredible information, and i thank you so much for the time and effort spent into working that out for us. Going to start spreadsheets today for The cats. I think right now with Boo, I’m going to maintain his program as it’s working, before trying to switch up anything until either my wife or I can be home to monitor their health. She is back at work and I’d rather start making these changes when i can assess what’s happening. It sounds like the changes may be slow coming, but hopefully getting the pre shot reads can help determine a little more about what the next steps are.
     
  46. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Well it’s probably for the best that Peeks wasn’t cooperating with me this morning, I just got home and went to try and give the +1 test, only to realize that my test kit doesn’t include the lancets. Not sure how i didn’t realize that this morning. Going to blame that one on my brain still trying to wake up.
     
  47. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you get 28 lancets any brand, the ears will bleed better with those size lancets, more capillaries will grow the more you test, don't forget cotton rounds to put behind the ear in case you poke yourself, then press lightly about 20 seconds or until you see her ears stops bleeding :cat:
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oops! :D

    .
     
  49. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    No other real updates as of yet. Peeka's walk seemed to look a little bit better, but still struggling at times. She is still hopping up onto her favorite couch and lounging around the house like normal, just taking a little longer to get there. I will update with a test result later today, should be +8 unfortunately, I know the Vetsulin will probably be worn off, but that should mean that I get a good PMPS tonight.
     
  50. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Peter when you forget where you last put the lancets THEN worry. :p
    Brain fry is part of the indoctrination. ;):coffee:
     
  51. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Looks like I'm learning Trial by Fire style.
     
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  52. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    LOL Happens to ALL of us! Just when you think you've got a handle on this our "kids" throw a curve ball.:rolleyes::p
     
  53. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    What meter are you using Peter? Also remember that if Peeka turns out to be an inpatient cat trying to get away fast, your best option is to scoop the blood on your clean nail and test from there so she can get away and it won’t ruin the test. And
    Warm the ear
    Warm the ear
    Warm the ear
     
  54. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    I'm assuming by Meter you mean the glucose tester? If so, I wound up with the ReliOn Prime. Does the lancet brand matter? I know I'm looking for 28 something? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm still trying to learn on the fly here. I just now set up the spreadsheet, but am still having troubles embed the link.
     
  55. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    Mogs
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  56. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    So I think I was able to properly embed the link for Peeks's spreadsheet. Hopefully this will help out more in the future. Y'all are teaching me so much more than just about feline diabetes! :bighug: Again, sorry for the 1,000 questions or if I'm not using this forum correctly with questions or posts or what not. But I can't thank everyone here enough for the knowledge shared already!
     
  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    That's a big 10-4 on the spreadsheet. You're doing great, Peter.

    The breadth of experience in caring for cats among the members of this community is extraordinary. I, too, have learned about so much more here than just feline diabetes. The Feline Health board would always be my first port of call if I needed help with anything cat-related.

    We have all been helped here by fellow members. We're now paying forward by trying to help others.

    There is no such thing as a bad question, Peter, nor are there too many. Fill yer boots! :D


    Mogs
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  58. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    that would be gauge
     
  59. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    I thought that was the case. I just know if I see Lancets and 28, I would probably buy it lol. And I've seen in other threads, brand doesn't matter so much? Would I be ok in getting whichever was cheapest?
     
  60. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Cheap is fine. Lancets are not meter specific. its just a tiny blade ;):coffee:
     
  61. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    They’re called meters ;)
     
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  62. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Cheap is fine I get 100 for under $2 at Walmart. Brand doesn’t matter as it doesn’t go into the meter like the strips. 28 or 26 to start with as they make slightly larger pricks. The smaller the number the bigger the lancet point that does in
     
  63. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Just some FYI

    You can get lantus from Marks Marine in Canada. It's under $200 for a box of 5 pens (total 15 ml) bottle only had 10 ml.

    For the legs. Zobaline will definitely help, though it takes time. Neuropathy is like pins and needles, tingling, the zobaline helps with it. Scroll to the bottom for it. Can also buy human methylcobalamin and folic acid separately and give.

    https://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html
     
  64. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    Bought some from Vitacost on Monday I think. Should be arriving on Friday, although I think from everything I’ve seen it’s the BG that are going to make the biggest difference. Our other diabetic cat Boo was DX a couple of years ago and we are finally getting him back on track and he had similar shaky back legs as his sister (both from the same litter) and he is much more confident on his paws. so once i can get her dosage correct, I’ll feel a lot better. If the Methyl B12 is the icing on the cake, then sign me up!
     
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  65. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Yes, getting glucose under control is the biggest difference. But it doesn't happen overnight. Diabetic neuropathy is like hitting your funny bone but you can't shake it out. Methyl 12 helps with that pain until the glucoses are controlled. It must be methylcobalamin and not plain b12.

    I bought some human methyl for myself. Not diabetic but feet had constant nerve tingling. Surprised how well it works.
     
  66. Peter (Peeka&Boo)

    Peter (Peeka&Boo) Member

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    That’s awesome it’s working well for you! Even if i can’t visually see any improvement with Peeka right away, as long as she’s getting on the right tracks and feeling ok, I’ll be happy. She’s such a fighter.
     
  67. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    So's her male Person! It's great she has you in her corner. :cat:


    Mogs
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