panic newbie--pre-shot, pre meal 93

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mimi1997

mimi1997

Member Since 2010
11.5 hours from last injection, Lantus 2 units.
after BG test, I gave 1/4 can and ate about 1/8 can of Merrick. He usually eat all.
Should I skip the am injection? He's getting angrier with injection recently.
No test yesterday. Previous test was 59, 5.5 hour after shot, Friday.

Difficult BG test time again on his ear because he refused and moved, blood everywhere, I guess I sliced his ear, again.
He won't let me touch him now.
How do I get another test later? :-|
 
Skip the injection, retest in a few hours. Going forward reduce the dose. No insulin if under 200 because I think you may have a cat going into remission. Great job!
 
Jen! (crying---)

He's still bleeding but he won't let me touch his hear and flat his ear down.
I skip the am insulin then...? Retest in 6 hours or? If above 200 then I give Lantus right away or wait until 8pm? How much should I reduce the does? It's 2 units now.

His diabetes is diagnosed late so I don't expect much, he's so upset with BG test and I am very worried..

tuckers mom said:
Skip the injection, retest in a few hours. Going forward reduce the dose. No insulin if under 200 because I think you may have a cat going into remission. Great job!
Click to expand...
 
oh, no crying! It will be ok. How much is he bleeding? If it's just a little, it will stop on its own but it will leave a scab. If it's a lot, then you need to catch him.

I would feed him a good meal and test again in an hour, if you can, to be sure he stopped dropping. I think it's too early to say he is going into remission, but it does look like 2 units is too high a starting dose. I would reduce the next shot.
 
She can't test often yet and the tests she has been able to get have been pre shots in the mid-100 range. I do think we can see remission soon. Vet says to test only once per week.

I think part of the reason he doesn't want the shot is he does not feel he needs it.
 
Hey! I know exactly how you're feeling. I cry too and am too much a newbie here myself to give you any dosing advice but I can say "Hang in there. I know its tough but you can do this". Its evident how much you love your kitty and you've come to the right place. Lots of experience, know-how, and support here. They've seen it all so stay close to forum and keep your chin up. Your precious sugar kitty will be happy you did. This day is going to finish better than its started for you.
Hang in there girl. You're going to do just fine. As has been said to me "Breath deep". Really! Take several deep breaths each time you feel panicky and it will really help calm you.

You're not alone now, you have an army of expertise here. Keep us posted and listen to the experienced and wise here.
Prayers of power and peace to you and your sugar kitty.

Cee & Gandolf cat_pet_icon
 
This is what on my vet's guideline: (morning , pre-shot)
Low 81-99 mg/dl
Action:
1.Feed pet
2. If normal meal consumed, give inslin
3. If pet does not eat, don not give insulin
4. If lower than previous reading, call vet (she's out of country...)
5. If higher than previous reading, and pet ate well, give insulin
6. re-test next day

it doesn't say when should I test again at #4.
 
Don't panic, you've already been advised on what to do about shots for now - but DO try and read this: Dealing with Low Preshots.

Also know that Lantus is a very slow-acting insulin that requires consistent, twice a day shots and FREQUENT BG monitoring it's not an insulin that you give / don't give depending just on meals or that you constantly mess about with dose changes. The only time that shots are normally witheld is when there is a real and imminent danger of Hypo. Too little insulin is far less dangerous than too much, generally speaking... you can always catch up later if kitty really needs more.

You DO have a Hypo KIT ready don't you? If not read the starred and Sticky posts here. Be prepared, just in case.

As said before there is a TON of experience and expertise here and the experts WILL drop by and advise you - they just can't be on here 24/7 every minute of the day but they WILL see this and they will come along and help you.
 
mimi1997 said:
How do I get another test later? :-|
Click to expand...
Get kitty fully lying down on his side so he can't back away. Whichever ear you may have damaged before, use the OTHER ear this time.

BE CALM or you will just transmit your fear and apprehension to him and he will become anxious. Take lots of deep breaths this REALLY helps. Give a litle snack, if he eats it this will distract him while you do the test. Give another one afterwards, as a reward.

Be firm but gentle and be patient, sometimes it may take a little more time and a little gentle squeezing to get that drop of blood to form. Don't prime your meter until you have some blood if your meter has an auto-shut off after a minute or so. While you are waiting TALK and reassure him! But whatever happens, once you have blood, try NOT to let go of that ear! Not until you have that blood safely into the test strip! Then apply gauze and squeeze gently but firmly for 15-20 seconds or so this helps to prevent bruising. Cuddle him during this time and tell him what a good boy he is!
 
It will be ok! I would do as Libby suggested, feed and re-test in an hour. I would also reduce the dose, the 2u appears to be too high. You want to give a dose that allows you to give shots on a 12 hour schedule, without skipping shots.

Remember that if you test again and give a shot an hour late, the next shot will need to be given 12 hours from that time. Are you able to adjust your schedule to be able to give your shot later?

Other ideas for testing...you can wrap him in a towel, like a burrito, to keep him confined while you test, or you can try the clothes pin method. http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick Make sure you are giving treats after you test, even if you aren't successful. Be calm while trying to test, Mimi will pick up your vibes so being calm is important.
 
this is all good. I'm sorry you're having such a time testing, but the reason we're pushing is because the numbers are great and we need to figure out exactly what your kitty needs (what is your cat's name, by the way?). I would skip the shot this morning to drain the shed a bit, then see where he is at PMPS time tonight. That number can tell us a lot about how far over dose he might be and can help us see what would be a good dose to reduce to. Then start over at a lower dose.

I agree that 2 units is too much for your cat right now, since you can't test every day. It's easier to start on a lower dose, to give everyone (the cat and the person) time to get used to the routines before having to deal with lower numbers. It's great that he is responding so well already, though.
 
Thanks everyone.... I don't know what to do now.
Skip or not?

His ear stops bleeding and he's back to his bowl and ate the rest of 1/4 can meal.
I am waiting for him to sleep so I may get a better chance to do the test.

Can I get blood if I don't aim on the vein? I think I sliced him on the last two test by using just lancet. Lancet pen might be safer?

I don't know how to reduce the dose.
I do microwave a small bag of rice and lay it on Mimi's ear before I do the test.
After test I do give him treat he loves very much but he doesn't connect them together.
 
Perry provided some great suggestions regarding testing. You can also 'scoop' blood onto your fingernail and test from there if your kitty is squirmy.

I wouldn't use the info on low pre-shots quite yet. Those instructions are more relevant once you are data ready. Instead, take a look at the starred, sticky note regarding becoming data ready.

What I would add to Perry's and Laurie's suggestions is a bit of behavioral training. Over the course of the next several days, pick up your kitty and take him to the spot that you test and just let him hang out and give him a treat. Don't test -- just treats. Fiddle with his ears -- but give scratches, tell him what a good boy he is, be affectionate, etc. Let him begin to associate the test spot with more than just getting poked and you're being upset. The more confident you feel, the easier it will be for both of you.

We don't typically suggest that you base giving a shot on the BG test once you've fed. Generally, the hour after you feed, you'll see a food spike. Two hours after you've fed, the numbers should be close to your pre-shot test since this is around the time that Lantus onset begins. Right now, you don't yet have data to be shooting numbers that are under 100. We encourage newbies to post if you get a number under 150. A great deal will depend on whether you can closely monitor when you have a low pre-shot test. If you can't get tests, you don't know whether your cat's numbers are dropping into too low of a range where you can intervene with high carb food.

If you can, testing in an hour and every 3 hours would be great. We don't encourage testing just once a week the way your vet suggested. At this point, though, if you can get a pre-shot test every time and one test in each of the AM and PM cycles would be very good. Try to get the spot checks somewhere toward the middle of the cycle.

A few deep breaths and remember, you can do this. We've had people who are phobic of needles and blood overcome their fear and become expert at testing. You really can do this!

I also agree -- I think your cat needs less insulin.
 
A topical anesthetic/antibiotic ointment, applied to the area where you plan to test, may be helpful. Put a small amount on about 15 minutes or so before you plan to test to numb it a bit. (this tip was posted in the past couple of weeks by another member.)

An additional plus is the petrolatum in the ointment will help the blood bead up more obviously.
 
Aim for the outside part of the ear, next to the vein and the outer part of the ear. You're using the flashlight, right? You should be able to see the outer edge of the ear pretty well. We try not to hit the vein, although I sometimes do:)
 
Hi, things will be Ok. Stop and take a little time to breath calmly. Your cat an tell if you are upset, then she gets more upset. When you test DON'T aim for the vein. Aim for the tiny space between the vein and the edge of the ear. Then you won't get a lot of bleeding, just a drop. I'll see if I can find the pictures to help you.

I get Tess settled between my legs on the couch, very little room for her to move that way. Everyone has a slightly different technique. You will find one that works for you.
 
If I read her correctly I think Mimi is now OK with not giving the AM shot but is still unclear about what dose to give at PM today and maybe, when to give this?
No-one has yet given her a number..?
 
I'll admit I have a little trouble (or more accurately, my husband has the most trouble) getting the blood to bead up nicely if Chester has Neosporin on his ears. After heavy testing days, I apply it, but maybe it's just me. Seems to make it more difficult to get a bead after when it's in the fur. Personally, I'd leave one ear untreated until I was sure that I could get a good sample from the Neosporin ear.
 
mimi1997 said:
...After test I do give him treat he loves very much but he doesn't connect them together.
Click to expand...
He won't (connect them) yet, it takes time and repetition. But give it a few days or so - and he will !! Make it all happen about the same, each time. Cats love routine!

Our cat now comes and jumps up by himself to the "test place" when we call him, "Come on Sooty, Test time!!" - sometimes he even reminds us, when it's time !!!
 
Here is a great photo that one of our members posted showing the vein on the edge of the ear. Any where between the vein and the edge of the ear is good, the "sweet spot" is a little larger and easier to locate at first.
sweetspot.jpg


Try to aim between the vein and the edge of the ear. I find it easier to be precise without the lancet pen, but many others have great success with them. If you use the device use the clear cap so you can place it more precisely.

earvein2.jpg


here are some more links that may help:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=605

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398&feature=related
 
Jaye and Chester said:
I'll admit I have a little trouble (or more accurately, my husband has the most trouble) getting the blood to bead up nicely if Chester has Neosporin on his ears. After heavy testing days, I apply it, but maybe it's just me. Seems to make it more difficult to get a bead after when it's in the fur. Personally, I'd leave one ear untreated until I was sure that I could get a good sample from the Neosporin ear.
Click to expand...
Forgot to say, Cathy & me prefer the 'inside of the ear' same area, between the vein and the edge, just the other side - much less fur in the way!! Much easier to see what's going on... we also sometimes test further down too, as far as just above that funny little fold of skin. Seems to work just as well and Sooty doesn't mind at all...
 
Good morning Mimi I posted to you on health last night. Did you see it? Once again I can't give dose info but I did tell you the same about treats. I suggested freeze dried chicken most advisers recommend that. My cat readily accepted testing after I gave him deli turkey lunch meat without sugar. Ask to see label before you buy if you decide to try it you'll be surprised how many brands add sugar :sad: Powder is now a testing pro and your kitty may accept it when the treat value is high enough. In the beginning only give that high value treat when testing or desensitizing him o tests as Sienne told you.
Also what meter and lancet device are you using? I never use just a lancet anymore 'cause I experienced the same problem :roll: I use the device I have on the least deep setting I use the Freestyle. I also put a cotton ball behind the ear where I am going to prick. It gives substance to hold against the ear and protects my fingers ;-)

You can trust what the advisers tell you, as I said last night, they have been where you are and know how you feel. The help and knowledge is here. Right now there are a few cats on their no insulin trial and since I joined in September others have already come off. The protocol works. Take a deep breath your kitty sounds like it will be off before mine :smile:
 
wanted to stop by to say hello and welcome to the group! :-D

happy to hear you didn't shoot any insulin this morning. you've already received quite a few good suggestions. sometimes it just takes a little practice to get the hang of hometesting. hopefully, you'll be able to get a little practice in today and will come back with a number before shot time tonight.

good luck!


ps - i'll remove the 911 icon from your original post on this thread since there is no longer a medical emergency.
 
hi! you're doing great, and have the wise ones here with you. it's hectic at first...but nice job.

so your kitty is mimi...can we ask your name?

celi & binks
 
I also just want to welcome you. We've been here about 6 weeks now so still a newbie, I guess. But as other newbies have said....it WILL get better. You will be amazed. You will also learn how to do the ear pokey fast....my Gracie doesn't even react anymore. Like others said, just be calm, breathe, and take your time...you don't have to rush. One thing I found also helps is I bought some baby washclothes and after I pokey her ear, I put a cold, damp washcloth around the spot and hold it so she doesn't bruise and I think it is soothing. Like Jaye, I found the neosporin kept me from getting drops as it made the ear gooey so we stopped with that but you can try it and see if it helps your kitty...every cat is different (ECID) and so you may see a good result for him.

I know this is hard, sweetie. Even now, every time I have to stick my darling girl's ears, I feel so bad for her because she is so sweet. But they can't get better if we don't do this and you will find that testing (and food) can be your best friends. When you have time, look at some other spreadsheets and you'll see how often alot of people test...your kitty will acclimate. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: You'll get this!!!
 
There are a number of FDMBers around the Boston area, so one of us could give you a hand if you feel you need guidance. We've all been there, and know how difficult, frustrating, and frightening it can be.

MJ&Donovan
 
Thanks, this is a great photo.

I use Lancet pen now because handfree is more likely to slice Mimi's ear because he shakes his head when he gets a prick.
Warm a rice sock on his ear first.
Last night I got two tests. Mimi bite me once. He got a treat each time.

Tried 4 pricks today.
First one in this morning went well. Treat.
Last three failed, poked, but no blood, I tried to "milk", Mimi bite me again. He still got treats.
Now he won't let me touch him, again.

Ann & Tess said:
Here is a great photo that one of our members posted showing the vein on the edge of the ear. Any where between the vein and the edge of the ear is good, the "sweet spot" is a little larger and easier to locate at first.
sweetspot.jpg


Try to aim between the vein and the edge of the ear. I find it easier to be precise without the lancet pen, but many others have great success with them. If you use the device use the clear cap so you can place it more precisely.

earvein2.jpg


here are some more links that may help:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=605

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398&feature=related
Click to expand...
 
You've gotten good advice, only thing I want to add, and you may do this already, is try to get him to come to you often, just for loves and no pokeys. And maybe a treat just for letting you get him. Be sure he knows you're not only coming after him to poke him? Good luck, and I hope, in time, it gets easier.
 
I keep each pricking 3 hrs apart and hoping he will forget. Tried to kiss him, canned food, and pat him between.

Anne&Muffin said:
You've gotten good advice, only thing I want to add, and you may do this already, is try to get him to come to you often, just for loves and no pokeys. And maybe a treat just for letting you get him. Be sure he knows you're not only coming after him to poke him? Good luck, and I hope, in time, it gets easier.
Click to expand...
 
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