OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-Nutritionist advice

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Anne&Muffin (GA)

Anne&Muffin (GA)

Member Since 2010
Good Morning LL and Happy Furday!

I've decided to add pumpkin to civvie Shnookie's diet to help with weight loss. A woman at the vet's office said to be careful how much you add because it may run right thru him, causing diarrhea. I'm also adding a probiotic (Fortiflora) which should help with that. My question is how much should I give him, and do I give it at each feeding (he eats 3-4 times a day) or just once a day? His current weight is about 21 lbs and vet said his ideal weight is 16-17 lbs. Any advice is appreciated.

We're still thinking of Libby and Linda and Marje and the losses of their loved ones, and sending healing vines to all who may need them.

Hi ma fwien's! Whatta heck, fatty brudder getta a condo and I don? Sheesh, whatta goin on here? I lubs to joina gang today and hang outs....Mannie? ;-) See yous soon, Lubs, Muffin
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

pumpkin is fiber, and just like any other fiber you'd want to start small and work up. i wonder if the vet is thinking the fiber would fill schnookie up? when i was trying to stop up diarrhea i was told to give punkin 1tsp once a day, i believe.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Thanks Julie - yes we are using the pumpkin to fill Shnookie up. Which I guess is why I'm confused about how often to feed it. If I want him to feel fuller, it seems like he should get some at every meal, but I don't want to overload his system either.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

just guessing, but i'd assume it's like in people. you add fiber slowly so that you don't feel bloated or get gas from it. too much all at once might cause diarrhea. over time, your body adjusts to whatever you give it. i'd think you could increase the volume every few days.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

just throwing out another weight loss suggestion...

i'm one of those who is very leery of adding insoluble fiber from vegetables to a cat's diet. insoluble fiber swells and adds bulk to the stool, but it isn't really what we want to feed an obligate carnivore.

have you had a chance to read through Dr. Lisa's web page on Obesity and Implementing a Safe Weight Loss Program?

we've been very successful following the first weight loss method Dr. Lisa mentions:

"First method:

The most accurate way is to calculate how many calories your cat is currently eating to maintain his not-so-svelte figure. Then take 80% of those calories as a starting point. Check the bag of dry food that you are feeding and see if it lists the calories/cup. Most dry foods do list the calorie content on the bag but canned foods do not. See this chart for calorie amounts for various dry foods. See this chart to see if the canned food that you are currently feeding is listed."

if you haven't already, please read through Dr. Lisa's site. she makes some great suggestions...
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Thank you for the links Jill - I have read those and have tried simply cutting down the number of calories he eats. However, Shnookie is extremely persistent and demanding about his food. He will wander the house yelling, and if he gets no response, he will seek me out and start nipping at my knees until he gets what he wants. Of course I realize this is more my fault than his, as he has me trained very very well, and it is hard for me to deny him what he wants, even knowing it's for his own good. I'm hoping that adding a little fiber might make the process a little easier on both of us.

Dry food is not an issue, he hasn't eaten that for years. The vet was shocked to learn that he is this overweight solely on canned food. I'm trying to cut him down to 3 3oz cans a day, which will be an average of about 280-300 cals, depending on which flavors he eats on what days. I've tried to do this without adding the fiber, and Shnookie simply feels this is not enough food for him. :roll: and I'm not emotionally strong enough to insist that it is. :oops: I'm hoping to not have to add the fiber on a permanent basis, but just until we can get a couple lbs off.

In the last year he's also developed a heart murmur, very mild so far.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

We were advised to add 1 tsp of pumpkin once per day to Zener's diet a while back because he has issues with his anal glands filling up and having to "be expressed". This was an issue when he ate dry kibble and still is on wet food but not as often. Once he was diagnosed with FD, the vet advised to not use pumpkin, even such a small amount. Looks like you are getting lots of great advice from others here.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Anne, Copper my civvie also got pumpkin(1tsp) in some food as he was usually constipated and it helped him--He also got miralax, 1/8 tsp day for constipation..If he's not constipated I wouldnt use it.
Hugs to you, Muffin & your civvie :-D :-D :-D :-D
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Hi Anne,
I was reading your condo and wanted to chime in, if I may. I haven't done it, but my vet suggested green beans as well as pumpkin for added fiber to help with weight loss. She said to puree it real well and add gradually to her food. I forget what amount she suggested, but I could find out, if you are interested.
I know how hard it is to get your kitters to lose weight. When I was feeding ours dry, grain filled :sad: food, they acted like they were starving. At least starving for protein! And I wasn't very good at saying no, either. I measured their food, the whole works..... the only way they started to lose was when Miss was dx'd and we got them on canned. Missy has been a champ since then...lost almost 6 pounds since March :thumbup (but she was HUGE, I am embarrased to say)
The biggest thing that helped me was getting a baby scale. That way, I monitored their progress every week and I knew when I was doing badly. If I saw the weight start to go up, I got stricter with myself. :roll:
Good luck...I know it is a really hard battle.
I attached a photo of my two waiting for their slow bean to get out the fuds......hard to turn down those sad little eyes.
 

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Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Thanks everyone for all your input, and so now I have more questions :lol:

Anne - Did the vet discourage pumpkin due to the FD only or for other reasons as well? Shnookie is not FD, so maybe not an issue?

Roni - If he's not constipated you wouldn't use miralax? or pumpkin? He is not constipated that I am aware of, but he "goes" outside, so I don't really know.

Mares - That's interesting on the green beans - I've never heard of that. Is that better for them than pumpkin? I would be interested in the amt, if it's not too much trouble. I do have a baby scale, and a scale to weigh the food, as I prepared to start this quite a while ago. He did lose 6 oz when I first started, over 2 months tho :lol: Then the kittens came and it all got shuffled to the back burner. But now I'm ready to work on it again. Your babies are gorgeous, and definitely on the sad little eyes.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

In the past, I've added shredded zucchini to Willie's diet (in our pre-FD days). It's 95% water, as opposed to 90% for pumpkin, so a little less fiber. Both are very high in vitamin A, so make sure there are no issues there. Willie was on a high pumpkin diet when diagnosed... we quickly took him off it (despite the vet telling us that a diet that was 40% pumpkin shouldn't be considered high carb. :roll: :roll: :roll: )

Good luck!!
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Anne,
I will ask my vet about the amount of green beans. I should know Monday.I don't know that one is better than the other, she recommend both, but she also told me HER cat lost weight by using the green beans.
I can so understand weight getting put the back burner (just like my own is :sad: ). It isn't easy or fun. I feel mean, even when I know it is for their own good. It was much easier for me to get results because she was so overweight. The next 5-8 pounds are going to be lots slower.
Since you have a scale, I think you will be able to do it. That really was key for me. They did gain some weeks, but then it just made me get more vigilant the next week. If I hadn't had the scale, I would never have known where we were. I never really set a goal, just that every time they got on the scale, they weighed less. I think, if I remember correctly, my vet said not to lose more than 1/2 lb a month....but that might be just my cats.
I will get back to you Monday, when I talk to my vet...
Have a great w/e!
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Thanks Christie, I have a call into the vet, so I'll make sure to ask about the vitamin A, thank you for mentioning that.

Mares - if it requires a call to the vet, I already have one in to my vet, I can just ask him about it. Thank you so much.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Hi Anne,
I can't comment on Shnookie's weight problem and pumpkin as a possible aid, but just want to wish you good luck with his diet! How much exercise does he get? Maybe he needs a treadmill!! Rusty gained a pound and a half between Feb. and June and we have been gradually getting it off, ounce by ounce. The baby scale really helps, as does exercise. I've cut him down to one 5.5 oz. can of Wellness Turkey a day plus a snack (1 teasp.) of FF Turkey & Giblets at bedtime. He also gets a very low calorie snack of a few boiled chicken chunks in water at +9 in the afternoon. I feed the Wellness at AMPS, +5 (lunch), PMPS, and bedtime, so basically what I do is divide the can into 4 servings. I serve the AMPS serving in two "sittings" about 1/2 hour apart, so that he still has something to look forward to.
I hope you will find a solution that works for you.

Have a good weekend, and thanks for visiting Rusty. He's looking forward to seeing Muffin at the Halloween party.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Anne,
Here is what my vet said about the green beans:

" I think green beans are a great idea. Start with just a few pieces, it may make them gassy at first, and then work up to more. For Missy I think just 1-2 tablespoons total each meal would be good, since shes diabetic we dont want too much bulk fiber but a moderate amount is fine. For Phoenix you could do a little more, he can have up to 1/4 cup per meal. "

But, don't forget green beans have carbs, too. That was one reason I never gave them to her...and she continued to lose without it.
Hope that helps....
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

I've been told in the past to use pumpkin for constipation, so I wouldn't use much if he doesn't have that problem. Have you check J&B's list for foods lower in calories? That way Shnookie could eat the same amount but get less calories. Cutting calories is the key, not volume. I've been obsesssing on food for Tess lately and found that the Merrick Before Grains are much lower in calories than Wellness or Blue Buffalo, even lower than FF. They are low carb too so you don't need to worry about Muffin getting into it.

Also cooked egg whites are protein but very low calorie. you could add that to his food for bulk while cutting down on the calories.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Anne...you know i have nothing of value to add...

but maybe Muffin could toss Shnookie's dish around for him, and he'd feel like ANY amount of food he got was filling??

sorry...didn't have good input, but soooo wanted to post in your condo!

5e44d_funny-pictures-cat-hates-digging-out-pumpkin-insides.jpg
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

Thank you so much for checking Mares - that's great info, and is a much higher amt than I would have ever added, so it's good to know I can go that high.

Ann - I've tried lower cal (or the so-called "diet") food for Shnookie in the past and he's turned his nose up at it. I do have some Merrick BG in the house tho, so I will try that - with fortiflora I'm sure I can get him to eat it. Egg white is a fantastic idea too!

Celi - :lol: :lol: Great idea! I'll see what Muffin thinks! :lol: :lol:

I did start this morning with the pumpkin - added about 1/3 tsp to his breakfast, and he ate it just fine! Even better news - he had his first weigh-in this morning and he's already down to 19 lbs 12.5 oz! So he doesn't have nearly as far to go as I thought! I'm shooting for 17 lbs and when we very first started this, almost a year ago, he was 22 lbs.
 
Re: OT - Question about adding pumpkin to diet

I agree with the others--I've used pumpkin for constipation before, but I don't think it's a good idea for weight loss. Plus, it did raise Bandit's BG a little when we used it.

Are you still feeding wellness Salmon and Trout? I don't know if you realize, but Wellness is pretty high in fat. I would suggest switching to a higher protein, lower fat food before trying pumpkin. If you want a premium food, Merrick's has some good lower fat options. Many flavors of Fancy Feast are also good in the protein/fat dept. You're already doing small meals, so that's good. I have to say that Bandit will become an absolute terror sometimes, and when that happens I give him a treat or a little bit of baby food or half a Fancy Feast appetizer, and that sates him. It's not so much that he's hungry, it's that he just wants to eat.

Also, it's good for them to be a bit hungry before their meal time. When cats are hungry, they want to play more, and exercise is a wonderful way to help the weight loss process. Bandit eats 4 times a day, and the hour or two before each meal he certainly rip roars through the house.

Bandit also does the nipping behavior before his morning meal, but I do no tolerate it in between meals. If he nips at me when it's not meal time, he gets a squirt from the squirt bottle. He quickly learned not to do it.
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

I was going to say exactly what Julia said.....go for a food that has less fat. Also, I wonder if, when he is hungry, you could just give him some boiled chicken breast? That is what I do for Gracie after she's had her allotted food but seems like she is starving. She doesn't do it every day but once in a while just seems like she is hungrier than usual. I give her about .1oz of the boiled chicken breast.

Good luck!! It's hard to get the weight off sometimes. I'd like Gracie to lose 1/2 lb but she only gets about 100 cal/day as it is and I weigh her to make sure she is stable.
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

For those following along - safe weight loss is SLOW weight loss. No more than 1-2% a week. And a baby scale or shipping scale is a must. I see diet or weight loss and I run to the thread LOL. Cat's livers actually can clog with fat and they can get liver failure. So its important to make sure weight loss is closely monitored to avoid getting Feline Hepatic Lipidosis. Maverick's story is in my signature and it is his legacy to make sure other cats and their owners do not have to fight this disease.

Great condo! :RAHCAT
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

I do want to point out that most of the Merrick's Before Grain are all pretty high in fat, too so Muffin will probably respond to that the same as the Wellness.

Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, Surf and Turf, and Grammy's Pot Pie have higher protein, and lower fat. I would recommend trying those foods. If his ideal weight is 17-18 lbs, I would start with a can and 3/4 a day and see where he goes from there. If you feed 1/4 can at each meal, then it would be easy to do 7 feedings a day. If he hasn't lost any weight after a week or two, slowly reduce the amount of food.
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

Shnookie...binks is sending you a track suit and some running shoes...hope that helps!
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

Thanks everyone, for all the great suggestions. The vet is checking with the nutritionist for me to see about using pumpkin and/or green beans as a weight loss tool in response to what people have said here. I want to make sure it's safe for Shnookie. I do have regular merrick's in the house, too, so I'll try some of those. He normally eats FF, usually the elegant medleys flavors, which i think are some of the better ones with regard to protein:fat. I did voice all your concerns to the vet, so that's why he's checking on everything for me - even about the vit A, so thank you all so much for bringing all this up.

Binks - thanks for the thought, but if I know Shnookie (and I do) he'll send them right back! :lol:
 
My vet contacted the nutrition expert regarding this issue and I thought I'd update since so many had voiced concerns here. He said it was ok to add the pumpkin for Shnookie as long as it doesn't exceed 10% of his diet. And it would be safe to use for as long as 7-8 months. I don't intend to use it that long, but it's good to know it won't hurt him. Regarding green beans, he said either / or was fine, or even both, but that pumpkin has more fiber. One is not better or worse for him than the other, so, since he seems to like the pumpkin, I'll stick with that. Also got the go-ahead on the probiotics for long term support, it definitely won't hurt them at all.

Also I've noticed that Shnookie is grooming himself again! He's clean and shiny and even his dander is better! I'm just thrilled for him! He walked all the way to the mailbox with me yesterday, which is across the street and 2 doors down. He used to just sit at the corner of the driveway and yell at me to come back :lol: And he actually jogged across the street, instead of his previous single speed movement (SLOW). So he is obviously feeling better already and I think with the loss of another 2-3 lbs, he'll be perfect.
 
Re: OT -Adding pumpkin to diet-first weigh-in!

Anne&Muffin said:
Binks - thanks for the thought, but if I know Shnookie (and I do) he'll send them right back! :lol:
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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