osmos not eating when given insulin I don't want to administer any longCer

my 10 year old Abyssinian doesnt eat when I administer insulin. Ive dropped him down to one unit per day and he is barely eating. He had a great appetite prior to starting insulin. His only symptoms prior to starting insulin were increased water consumption and urinating large amount. Now he is not himself, not eating, lethargic and behavior has dramatically changed. He sleep entire day/night. Might there be another reason why glucose is high? I don't want to give him insulin if he will not eat while on insulin. Please - anyone answer... is this common?

 

We need a little more information to try to help you. Can you please tell us what insulin he’s on and what foods? How long ago was he diagnosed and was the initial dose? How are you checking his glucose? Are you home testing? What kind of tests has the vet ran? There are a lot of reasons a cat won’t eat and insulin is not typically it.

Not enough insulin and no food can cause ketones which would make him feel lousy. Are you or have you checked for them? You can buy the urine test strips at any pharmacy and test at home

 

My first thought was ketones. I would get a bottle of ketostix oe Keto-diastix from walmart or a pharmacy and check the urine for any ketones.
It is really important cats eat, especially diabetic cats. So offer him any food at the moment.
Do you think he could be nauseated?
Withholding insulin is often not a good idea. it can make matters worse.
If you could answer the questions Ale asked, that would help.

 

I thought too much insulin first but then thought ketones as I was finishing writing. I would try things like baby food and tuna as well. Can you syringe feed him? It’s important for cats to eat and ketones can be life threatening so please try to test for those as soon as you can. Not sure what country you’re in but any human pharmacy should have them.

 

Hello thank you for reaching out. Cosmos (10yr old Abyssinian) was just diagnosed 3 weeks ago with diabetes. His symptoms which prompted me to take him to Vet was large water consumption and urinating often in large amounts. Everything else was normal; he was eating well behavior was normal, etc. Once diagnosed we started 1 unit insulin 2x day. I immediately noticed fatigue, drop in appetite and very lethargic. Vet adjusted insulin to 2 units 2x daily and that was not good as he was hallucinating and not himself and was not active. Now on 1x daily of 1unit and he is fine until I give him 1unit at nigh (new dosing) and he immediately stops eating and becomes lethargic etc. His glucose levels are upwards 460 and he's lost 1lb as he is not eating as he used to. He is eating half the amount of his normal consumption and being extremely finicky and at times i have to hand feed him. Again, all new behavior since we started insulin. Keytones not in urine only found in blood. He is being monitored with weekly visits to his veterinarian. I don't want to continue with insulin because he is loosing his quality of life as he is NOT the same cat since starting insulin. He is scheduled for a sonogram next week to rule out any masses. All his organ bloodwork is normal. please - is there anyone who has seen such behavior to insulin before and what should I do?

 

Can you share any blood glucose data with us please?
Some cats can become lethargic after insulin but I don’t see a lot of this.
What type of insulin are you giving?
What are you feeding him?
Are you hometesting the blood glucose? If so what type of meter?

 

No keytones in urine - I check daily and its negative
keytones in blood only a trace

 

do not have a blood glucose home testing mechanism, yet.- and I am looking into it - not sure which method is easiset and most accurate. This is all new to me as he just started insulin 3 weeks ago and we already have changed dosing of insulin to see if his appetite and behavior improves, but hasnt. Tomorrow I go back to 1 unit 2x daily. his glucose is upwards of 400's (460 today - blood test done at Vet and his last dose of insulin was 16 hours prior 1 unit 1x daily)

 

type of insulin is Vetsulin

 

Vetsulin

 

His diet was always wet food with small amount (1/4 cup) of dry food available.
TikiCat wet food (Highest protein cat food that I've found) also now trying to persuade him to eat Purina Dietetic wet food- but since insulin started he is not eating but 4 oz per day and thats with topping if off with treats- Instinct freeze dried treats, which he picks out treats even though I crush treats. He has become extremely finicky with food since insulin began. He always was a good eater prior to insulin.

 

Was the trace of ketones in the blood from the vets?
Keep testing daily for ketones in the urine. No ketones is good!

If you can buy a ReliOn premier glucose meter from Walmart if you are in the US, or another human meter and learn to test the BG (blood glucose) you will know exactly what is happening and you won’t need to chop and change the dose all the time. At the moment it is all guesswork and if you are getting a BGs taken at the vet, they can be higher than normal because of cat stress.
Would strongly recommend you look into hometesting. We can help you with that.
If the BG is dropping too low and then bouncing back up high again, and this is very common, especially with an insulin like vetsulin (more about that later) you can think the cat needs more insulin when in fact they need less.
What happens is the dose drops the BG too low, and then it shoots up high again and if the vet tests it then, he will think more insulin is needed, when in fact the dose needs reducing.
If you are hometesting, you can see this happening and can reduce the dose. If I had a dollar for every time I have seen a new person arrive with this problem , I would be rich!
Here is an explain bouncing

• Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Vetsulin is not a suitable insulin for cats. It is really a dog insulin. It is too harsh and fast acting for cats as they have a faster metabolism than dogs.
Are you feeding food 30 minutes before the insulin? This is important as the cat needs food aboard as the insulin hits fast.
This I would feed a food snack at two hours after the dose and another snack four hours after the dose.

 

What food did you feed him before insulin started?

 

Cosmos has been on TikiCat for years (prior to this diagnosis)and loves it. Its one of the highest protein and low carb. Since I started insulin (3weeks ago) he won't eat anything except his Instinct Freeze dried raw snacks. he eats a bit of wet food even gave him Fancy Feast which I'm told is ok for diabetics?, but only used to entice him to eat. He always had a good appetite and now he is very finicky and wants me to hand feed him. Poor guy is really suffering from this insulin (what is worse - high glucose (480) or insulin that changes his entire world!?) . I know in my heart that this insulin is not the right treatment for him but I also don't want him to get permanent organ damage from not treating him. Doctor suggested a $400 insulin to try. I'm going to do that even though i cannot afford.

 

What country are you in? There’s no need for a $400 insulin and please tell us what it’s called. I feel like there’s something else going on like either he’s getting too much insulin or too little. Would you be able to home test so we can see what the insulin is doing to his blood glucose on a daily basis? If he’s getting too much insulin, he would feel and act lethargic so we want to rule that out.

fancy feast pates, chunky or flakes are okay and even some of the medleys like the shredded

 

2 more questions for you:

did you stop feeding the dry food after the diagnosis?
Did the vet diagnose the diabetes with a fructosamine test? It’s a test that gives you a 3-week blood glucose average as opposed to just a spot check.

can you please answer Bron’s question: “Was the trace of ketones in the blood from the vets?”

if the $400 insulin is Lantus, trust us, you won’t have to pay that. You can get the generic version called glargine at a Costco pharmacy if you’re in the US at a vey discounted price. I think somewhere around $35-50. There are also a lot of online coupons you can use or you can order from Canada like I did and it cost me about $35 for each Lantus pen

 

Cosmos always on wet food. Dry food in moderation. Since diagnoses of diabetes - I do not feed him any dry food.
Fructosamine blood glucose average, test done twice. shows steady numbers that he is a diabetic.
keytones in blood from vet testing (how else can I do ketone test other than the urine dip sticks I do daily. No keytones in urine.
what is the danger in getting generic version? Is quality same? all mfg's are slightly different and if I use a generic, will it be as effective as brand?

 

I’ll have to let Bron answer the ketones questions when he comes online since I don’t know as much about them.

it could be that the Vetsulin even at 1 unit is too much now that you removed the dry completely. Can you home test? Would you be willing? It’s the only way to really know what the insulin is doing to his bg and we can help with tips and guidance.

are you in the US? You said he eats tiki so I think you are but just checking because here it’s a lot easier to get a good price on the other better insulins.[/USER]

 

I live in NYC.
Can you please recommend which glucose "meter" would be the most accurate and without pain to Cosmos. I see there are many new meters on the market that seem less invasive and easy to use and understand.

 

Keep testing daily for ketones in the urine. That is good there are no ketones. But if your kitty had a history of ketones it is important Cosmos eats well and get the insulin he needs. Both these things help keep ketones away.
A good meter is the ReliOn premier meter from Walmart. You will also need 100 test strips and a box of 100 lancets size 26 or 28 and some cotton rounds to hold behind the ear to test.
Are you sure he is not nauseated.he might need cerenia or ondansetron for the nausea. Cats with nausea will not eat. And he must eat.
If you could set up your signature please which is in this link HELP US HELP YOU that will help us help you

 

Your previous post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/choosing-the-right-insulin-for-abyssinian.277507/

 

Hi Ale I think you meant to tag maybe Bron? Bronx's dad hasn't been on in years

 

Bron mentioned what meter to get in her post #12 above, numbers are to the right of each post

One favor when someone replies back to you can you tap the word like that's to the right so we know that you read it

Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
You can order them on line also if you don't have a Walmart in NYC
I would also buy more than 100 test strips , like 200
Our numbers are based on human meters
@MyUniverse

 

There is no danger in the genetic version of lantus ,we have many many members using the generic

Lantus is very expensive in the US most of us use the generic lantus
Or you can get generic lantus from a pharmacy
You can have the vet write the script for generic lantus ,many members use it, The brand is much more expensive, just call around and see who might have the generic
Here is some info
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!



If you have trouble with the good Rx coupon at any place call this number
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822
If you do get generic lantus
You will need

• U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus, Levemir, or the Biosimilars from vials, cartridges, and pens.
• BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn are just some of the brands available with half unit markings.
• Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest)
• Full and half-unit syringe scales:

 

@MyUniverse
U-100 syringes half unit markings you will probably need your vet to fax a script over to them, just call ADW diabetes tell them what you want, they will contact your vet, and ask your get for refills so you can then refill them yourself
Give your vet a heads up
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/5surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

10% off your next order!

 

Can you please set up your signature, tap on the blue link, if you also tap on your name above then tap on the word signature add the information that is asked on help us to help you add it then tap Save , Once you start to test you kitty you can then set up our spreadsheet , if you need help setting it up just ask

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
@MyUniverse

 

Yes, thank you for catching that!

 

No problem my friend