Ordering supplies and pricing - help!

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Judy and Pinkie

Judy and Pinkie

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I just called our local pharmacy for prices: WOW!!! I am in shock on the price of some supplies, so I definitely need help in this department.
Lantus SoloStar 3 ml pens: 5 for $19.47
Levemir 3 ml pens: 5 for $85.00

Contour test strips $110.19 for 100 ct Hocks $52 for 100 ct
Lancets for Ascensia Microlet $110.00 for 100 ct Hocks $10.39 for 100 ct
The difference in pricing in the lancets(for Microlet, and the BD manual ones) is minimal at Hocks.com

U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings: $27.00 for 100 Hocks $27.79 for 100 ct

I don't know which syringes I need: the U-100 1/2 ml or the U100 1 ml (both are 1/2").

I am amazed at the difference in pricing from a local pharmacy and Hocks.com

The $19.47 for 5 3 ml pens of Lantus sounds low compared to Levemir. Was I given the wrong pricing? Where do others order their insulin from? Any direction in what I need to order is much appreciated.
 
U must be in the U.S right? those insulin prices do not sound accurate unless someone is having a major sale!

I'm in Canada so my pricing won't help, most do order online thru Canadian sites, there are some states I think that u can buy these directly from the pharmacy. I'm not sure thou - someone may correct me on that.


EDIT: I've cross-posted this thread in Supply Closet
 
next time check the supply closet for questions like these. you may find stuff people are giving away or selling at a reduced price. (community is another great place to ask where people get cheaper supplies.)

for lantus, i find the cartridges cheaper. you just draw from them with a syringe like you do the pens. 5 lantus cartridges are $119 at canadadrugsonline.com plus 10 for shipping. (your number looks off so i'm guessing that was a typo)

have you considered the GNP cartridges on hocks.com instead? those are cheaper and work perfectly fine. i get the 0.3cc U100 syringes, 5/16" needle, with 1/2 unit markings. they must specify 1/2 unit markings so we can make small dose increments. i think it's about $16 for 100 of them.

contour test strips i always buy from ebay via credit card funding, not direct from my checking account. get from longtime sellers with good ratings. i usually pay $30 for 100 strips that way but was burned before by a newer seller with a 100% rating.

i just use lancets freehand without a pen, and eitehr get them free with contour test strip purchases on ebay or for about $6 on hocks.com. my preference is 30 gauge BDs but i'm not super fussy about the brand.
 
Pricing was incorrect: finally talked with a pharmacist.
Lantus is $224.00 for 5 pens Walmart is $215.00
Levemir is $214.00 for 5 pens at Walmart
Levemir is $120.00 for a 10 ml vial
Humuolin N is $57.00 for a 10 ml vial.
The syringes are $28.00 for 100 and the pharmacist said he sells a lot of Humulin N to pet owners with great success. He says the vial will last longer than a vial of Lantus or Levemir. I see my holistic vet tomorrow and the regular vet for blooddraw. So at least I have some information to take with me. The price of Lantus and Levemir is not in our budget at the rescue; the $57.00 we can handle for now. Thanks for all the information. Judy and Pinkie
 
Judy and Pinkie said:
U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings: $27.00 for 100 Hocks $27.79 for 100 ct

I don't know which syringes I need: the U-100 1/2 ml or the U100 1 ml (both are 1/2").
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You want U100 3/10 cc insulin syringes. You do not need 1/2 cc or 1 cc unless you have a diabetic cat who needs large amounts of insulin because of other health issues such as acromegaly.

Hocks.com has several brands of U100 3/10 cc insulin syringes, some with half unit markings, of varying prices. Some are as low as $13 for a box of 100. See this post on the old board for a list (might take a few minutes for page to load): http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 22,1959486
 
I just bought 5 cartridges of Lantus at Costco for $182, member price. There was a FSA tax of $16 was added, I have to ask about that. Don't know if it is standard or because I said it was for my cat. Remember you are getting half again as much with the cartridges and since only 1/5th is opened at a time the rest remains good longer.

Hocks has great prices, over $79 you get free shipping and if you sign for email offers they send you a $5 coupon code. Check out Amazon for strips too. I got 50 ct. OTU for $25.50.
 
AM making up a list of supplies so I know what I need.
RE: dosing
If Pinkie is getting 2 units bid in a U-40 28 ga insulin for use with Vetsulin, how does that translate to a U-100 31 ga insulin 3/10 cc with 1/2 unit markings. I can't determine how to adjust her dosage. Thank you, Judy and Pinkie
 
Also: the pharmacist from our local drugstore told me that Humulin N would last longer in a vial than the Lantus or Levemir. So I could probably order vials instead of pens. Comments from those who have already made this decision. Humilin N at Hocks.com is 5 pens/3ml for $129.00; a vial of 10 ml is $44.69, a huge difference in price for our rescue budget. My vet's office just told me that Vetsulin is being taken off the market. Can anyone comment on that information? Thanks! confused_cat
 
If Pinkie is getting 2 units bid in a U-40 28 ga insulin for use with Vetsulin, how does that translate to a U-100 31 ga insulin 3/10 cc with 1/2 unit markings. I can't determine how to adjust her dosage. Thank you, Judy and Pinkie
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There is absolutly no need to "convert" anything. 1 unit of insulin is 1 unit period. When you use the proper syringe the only thing that changes is the volume of liquid that you have, the amount of insulin is the same. 1 U of U40 insulin in a U-40 syringe is the same as 1 unit os U100 insulin in a U-100 syringe.

As far as the Humalin N, it is in the opinion of most the absolute worst choice of insulin for cats. It is simular to Vetsulin, but even harder to work with. The success rates with Lantus make it by far the better and cheaper alternative. It may cost more up front, but the reality is that Humalin is going to cost you more in the long run (pay me now or pay me later). I was using Vetsulin and having terrible results, I switched to Levemir and after 7 months my cat was in remmission.

If your dose is 2U BID, which could change you would be using 4U per day, a 5 pack of Lantus Pens would last you over 1 year (or about $17 a month). Humalin is compareable to Vetsulin and also has a useage limit of 28 days recommended (it may last longer if stored properly) however it is like vetsulin a crystalline solution that requires mixing before each use, like vetsulin it will likely not be useable much beyond 1 month after being opened. So a package of 5 pens Humalin N @ $129.00 is about $25 a month, and you will likely have pulled all your hair out after the the first 2 pens! My advice...find a way to get the Lantus. Ask on Supply closet here maybe someone will sell you 1 pen to start with, or someone will go 1/2 on an order.
 
Monique & Spooky said:
If Pinkie is getting 2 units bid in a U-40 28 ga insulin for use with Vetsulin, how does that translate to a U-100 31 ga insulin 3/10 cc with 1/2 unit markings. I can't determine how to adjust her dosage. Thank you, Judy and Pinkie
Click to expand...

There is absolutly no need to "convert" anything. 1 unit of insulin is 1 unit period. When you use the proper syringe the only thing that changes is the volume of liquid that you have, the amount of insulin is the same. 1 U of U40 insulin in a U-40 syringe is the same as 1 unit os U100 insulin in a U-100 syringe.
Click to expand...


You can not use a U40 syringe with a U100 insulin. Yes a unit is a unit, but the concentration is different. You need to use a U100 syringe for a U100 insulin. Many people do use a U100 syringe in a U40 insulin to "fine tune" a dose, but it can not be converted the other way around.
 
Is that what she was asking? I thought she understood that U100 needed U100 syringes how does that translate to a U-100 31 ga insulin 3/10 cc with 1/2 unit markings. that is a U100 syringe. The question I understood was If you had been on 2U of Vetsulin (U40) how many units of Lantus etc. (U100) should your dose be? Many people think there is a difference between 1unit of one kind of insulin and 1U of another. There is a difference in terms of each insulin works differently with respect to onset, duration, peak, and absorbtion as well as it's biochemical properties, however in equal doses thier "potentcy" is very simular.

That is why I dislike the term "harsh" for some insulins, as far as strength (ability to lower BG) all are about the same, what differs is how quickly and at what rate of speed they do it. I think of Vetsulin etc. as being an uncomfortable insulin because it works to fast and to short (like being on a rollercoaster).

I hear many people think that somehow those 2U of Vetsulin are "weaker" because it's U40, so when they switch to a U100 (using the correct syringes) they need to give less because it is stronger.

In fact we do often suggest a lower starting dose when switching insulins, but only because the dose was too high to begin with, or a lower dose was never tried, or we want to be sure the cat doesn't have a sensitivity to the new insulin etc..... but not simply because one is more powerful than the other.

I hope that was the question, I assumed she knew she needed new syringes because she had been discussing the cost and which brand to order.
 
Monique & Spooky said:
Is that what she was asking? I thought she understood that U100 needed U100 syringes how does that translate to a U-100 31 ga insulin 3/10 cc with 1/2 unit markings. that is a U100 syringe. The question I understood was If you had been on 2U of Vetsulin (U40) how many units of Lantus etc. (U100) should your dose be? Many people think there is a difference between 1unit of one kind of insulin and 1U of another. There is a difference in terms of each insulin works differently with respect to onset, duration, peak, and absorbtion as well as it's biochemical properties, however in equal doses thier "potentcy" is very simular.

That is why I dislike the term "harsh" for some insulins, as far as strength (ability to lower BG) all are about the same, what differs is how quickly and at what rate of speed they do it. I think of Vetsulin etc. as being an uncomfortable insulin because it works to fast and to short (like being on a rollercoaster).

I hear many people think that somehow those 2U of Vetsulin are "weaker" because it's U40, so when they switch to a U100 (using the correct syringes) they need to give less because it is stronger.

In fact we do often suggest a lower starting dose when switching insulins, but only because the dose was too high to begin with, or a lower dose was never tried, or we want to be sure the cat doesn't have a sensitivity to the new insulin etc..... but not simply because one is more powerful than the other.

I hope that was the question, I assumed she knew she needed new syringes because she had been discussing the cost and which brand to order.
Click to expand...


ack.. I was PBC again (posting before coffee) ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile

you are probably right.
 
Never hurts to make sure, and remind people of that.

The other thing that people confuse often is the prices, while it seems that Lantus is cheaper in the 10ml vial it isn't when you compare several insulins by price per 100 units.

Prices are from Drugstore.com

1 vial 10ml Lantus (1000 units)=$111.88/10=$11.18 per 100 units
5 (ea. 3ml=300 units) cartridges Lantus for Opticlick pen (1500 units total)=$206.09/15=$13,74 per 100 units
5 (ea 3ml=300 units) Solorstar pens (1500 units total)=$202.71/15=$13.52 per 100 units

• HumuLIN N Pen (Five 3ml penfills per box), 3ml Pen=1500 units total=$154.05/15=$10,27 per 100 units

Humalin should always be kept refridgerated and is recommended to be discarded after 28 days (opened vials) Pens that are not refridgerated after opening should be discarded after 14 days.

I do not know if humalin will last as long as Lantus if kept refridgerated, I tend to think probably not, being that it is simular to vetsulin (is a crystalline suspension of human insulin with protamine and zinc providing an intermediate-acting insulin with a slower onset of action and a longer
duration of activity) Vials of Vetsulin were usable for about 28 days when refridgerated and almost never were usable much beyond that. Carefully shake or rotate the bottle of insulin several times to completely mix the insulin. Inspect the insulin. Humulin N suspension should look uniformly cloudy or milky.

The price difference here is minimal, and even when comparing to Vetsulin the price is about the same. I paid 8,25€ ($11,25) for a 2,5ml vial of Vetsulin a U40 insulin
2,5mlx40 units=100 units per bottle total cost=$11,25 per 100 units making it only less than 1 cent per day cheaper than Lantus. At a dosage of 4 units per day.

In addition I found that U100 syringes are cheaper than U40 syringes which often have to purchased from a vet or vet supply store.
 
Monique & Spooky said:
Never hurts to make sure, and remind people of that.

Humalin should always be kept refridgerated and is recommended to be discarded after 28 days (opened vials) Pens that are not refridgerated after opening should be discarded after 14 days. I do not know if humalin will last as long as Lantus if kept refridgerated, I tend to think probably not, being that it is simular to vetsulin (is a crystalline suspension of human insulin with protamine and zinc providing an intermediate-acting insulin with a slower onset of action and a longer duration of activity) Vials of Vetsulin were usable for about 28 days when refridgerated and almost never were usable much beyond that. Carefully shake or rotate the bottle of insulin several times to completely mix the insulin. Inspect the insulin. Humulin N suspension should look uniformly cloudy or milky.
Click to expand...

I used Humulin N for close to 9 years on Morris, during which time he was considered well regulated. I used each vial approximately 3 months before buying a new one, and then only because it was so cheap and I wanted to be safe. I don't recall that there was any caution about using for only 28 days and I always inspected it for floaters but never found any. I used to pay arounnd $30 a vial but I think the last time I bought it over a year ago it had gone up to around $50....glad I got him off it if it is so much more now!

During those 9 years, Morris was eating Science Diet Light exclusively (and grew to 26 pounds!) and it is critical with Humulin that you be sure they eat when you shoot or shortly thereafter. The two times Morris went hypo, it was due to not eating.

We are now using Levemir...I made the mistake of buying the 10ml vial the first time around....killed me to throw out more than 3/4 of it after 1 month...over $100 down the drain. The second time I bought the 5 pack of 3ml cartridges from canadianpharmacyonline.com and spent about $120 US inlcuding shipping. We have always used ReliOn meter from Walmart...the strips are very reasonable - about $20 for 50 - and we also use the ReliOn syriges and lancets.

Just one persons opinion here... :razz:
 
Thank you for all the information regarding the syringes and the breakdown of the cost of Lantus and Levemir. I will be seeing my vets today. I will check the Canada online to see if I can order from there. $200 right now is just not possible. I am glad that others can afford to buy what they need, but I am a retired teacher on a fixed income with a husband who is unemployed, and right now we are caring for 22 cats and 13 dogs. Shelling out $300 is not an option for me and Pinkie right now. She is doing well on the Vetsulin, though I would like to change her because of everything I am reading on this board. I am hoping that my husband will be returning to work by May and then things will improve a bit finanacially. Pinkie is a rescue cat from Emporia, KS: her owners dumped her (probably because they had been told she was ill) and thought her vet records show she had good care, she has had medical issues her entire life. So reaching 13 is a miracle in itself. We suspect she may also have cancer: but in the meantime we are doing the best we can with what we have here. I get the feeling that I am being chastized for trying to do what I can because it isn't enough to meet the expectations of others. Right now I am in testing for pancreatic issues myself(mine isn't working either though I am not diabetic yet) so perhaps Pinkie came to me so I can learn more about pancreatic issues. Thank for the information. I apologize if I appear to be dumb and asking the wrong questions: I know a unit is a unit, but was confused about the difference sizes. Please keep Pinkie and me in your prayers. We will do the best that we can with what we have. Judy and Pinkie
 
sorry, judy, don't think anyone was trying to chastise you. sometimes we get so serious in answering that it can be taken the wrong way.

i think you were asking how you use U100 syringes for U40 insulin? if you get the U100s with half unit markings (0.3cc syringe), each hatchmark on the syringe represents 0.2u of the U40 insulin. so, for example, if you're looking at the U100 syringe, the 5 line represents 2u of U40 insulin. (i don't bother to convert, i just count off: 0.2u, 0.4u, 0.6u, 0.8u, 1u, 1.2u, etc).

hope that's helpful.
 
Thanks, Chris. I am learning, and frankly, I don't know the difference between U40 and U100 insulin to begin with. I have sat at this computer for hours over the past three weeks since Pinkie's diagnosis, trying to read and assimilate the information and have neglected the other furkids we have here. I can no longer do that. I will have to let my vets explain what Pinkie needs, and do the best I can. I truly wish that I only has a few cats and could devote more time to Pinkie and her illness, but I don't have that luxury with a rescue situation and my own personal health issues. I do believe that everything happens for a reason, and that Pinkie's illness may be a learning experience for me to use in the future. She is a sweet kitty, and I did not want her to die in a shelter. She is loved, well cared for and will be as long as she is with us. Since she came, we have spent well over $500 on her care(in 4 months). So we have not neglected her needs in any way. We will continue to do the best we can do. Have a nice day!
 
judy, we all are so stressed at diagnosis. there's a lot to learn. best advice i can give you is to say please get a good night's sleep each night. you'll pick stuff up very quickly--don't worry about that. in a short time you'll be amazed at how much you've learned.

if you decide to go with lantus, know that the remission rates are very good for newly diagnosed cats, and your initial expense is the greatest. other than that, it helps to stay in contact with the lantus forum and post a couple of times a day to let us know your cat's blood glucose readings so we can help you. [the other insulins have their own forums, and people are always on health if you need more immediate assistance.]

lots of cats here have lived a very long time with diabetes--some as long as 8 to 14 years. hope that reassures you somewhat.
 
Judy and Pinkie said:
Thanks, Chris. I am learning, and frankly, I don't know the difference between U40 and U100 insulin to begin with.
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U40 insulin contains 40 units per ml of dilutent.

U100 insulin contains 100 units per ml of dilutent.

As you can see, U100 insulin is 2.5 times "stronger" than U40 insulin.

All Human insulins are U100: Humulin N, Lantus, Levemir, etc. Some pet specific insulins, such as certain PZI, are U100. Use only U100 insulin syringes with U100 insulin.

Many pet specific insulins, such as Vetsulin, are U40. There are U40 insulin sryinges to use for these. Some people do use U100 insulin syringes with a conversion chart to more accurately fine tune the U40 insulin dose. The conversion chart is here http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm The volume of insulin you draw up will be 2.5 times more than what you would see if using a U40 insulin syringe. As long as you follow the chart, your cat is getting the right dose of insulin. If in doubt using the conversion chart, just stick with U40 insulin syringse for U40 insulin to be on the safe side.

If you need financial help with the vet bills, you can apply for help at any of these places: http://www.felinediabetes.com/vetbills.htm
 
Pinkie and I want to thank you for all the information and the time it took to post it for us. Her glucose today was 117, so the Vetsulin is working for her. But now we are dealing with another issue, for Pinkie has renal cancer and a huge mass in her L kidney. We confirmed this today with x-rays and other tests, and all of her internal organs are being pushed down because of it. While her bloodwork is still normal, the reason that she is not gaining as she should with the glucose lowered is because of the tumor. I spent over an hour with each vet this afternoon, and with their agreement, I have asked that we continue the Vetsulin, not because it is the best, but because it is working for her. She is not in pain, but then I had no pain with my own renal cancer either, so we will continue the insulin bid, and feed the low carbs food, but will allow her some of the dry crunchies she loves so much (the no grain kind). I will monitor her closely and I believe she will let me know when it is time to allow her to cross. I will make arrangements when Pinkie has gone home to donate the supplies you sent to me back to the Supply Closet. And we will do bloodwork every two weeks for both the glucose and the cancer (eventually the kidneys will begin to fail). I want to be sure she does not experience pain and discomfort, and for now, she is calm, purring and happy.
She is back at the Cat House for she hates being in the house with the dogs. I had kept her at the house so I could monitor her regularly, but now that we know about the cancer, I just want her to be happy and she is much happier up there with other cats and no dogs!
You all have done so much for so many. I am thankful to know you are here for people like me who have so many questions and no real answers. Blessings from The Healing Journey in Pine Bluffs, WY Judy and Pinkie
 
Aww, Judy. I hate to hear about Pinkie's cancer. You totally have the most kind and understanding way about you and I have faith that you will do everything for Pinkie's comfort and happiness for as long as possible. I'm so glad that she doesn't seem to be in pain, that is a true blessing. And what a blessing you are for her. You are obviously a lover of these little animals and thank goodness for people like you. If there is anything any of us can do to help as you go along, please just ask. (((Hugs to you!)))
 
kidney cancer

judy, someone else on the board has a cat with renal cancer who's done quite well. you might want to ask on the diabetic cat health forum here or on community.
 
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