Mini's been off insulin for more than a week, and he seems fine. He seems really good, in fact, and his neuropathy's getting better every day, but his numbers have been in the 60s, 50s and high 40s. He eats a can of Friskies Pate a day, and except for licks of coconut oil as treats, that's all he's eating. Should I be doing something else, or are we okay?
Numbers pretty low after a week w/o insulin - problem?
- Thread starter starling
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Larry and Kitties
Member Since 2009
Such low numbers are fine without insulin
dirtybirdsoaps
Member Since 2014
Your numbers look great. Those numbers are normal numbers and no need to worry when not on insulin. Heck I wish Hidey's numbers were that good lol He's been off insulin for several months and he's usually in the 80's or 90's in the am & pm and mid day 50-70. Maybe the insulin just needed to give the pancreas a KICK with diet change. Way to go! Fingers are crossed that it stays that way!
Geneva
Member Since 2014
starling - hey, great to see another kitty who likes coconut oil! :thumbup
I also noticed that your Mini is taking the B12. Do you give him just one pill a day or two? That's awesome that his neuropathy is getting better every day! In fact, it sounds like he's doing great all around! Congrats! :mrgreen:
I ordered some of the B12 last week for my cat Alice and it should come today. Hope we get good results too!
I also noticed that your Mini is taking the B12. Do you give him just one pill a day or two? That's awesome that his neuropathy is getting better every day! In fact, it sounds like he's doing great all around! Congrats! :mrgreen:
I ordered some of the B12 last week for my cat Alice and it should come today. Hope we get good results too!
Oh, that's such great news! That means I can start to breathe normally again!
Geneva, yes, both of my cats are crazy about coconut oil, and I am too. It took some experimenting, but to get Mini to come for his test I just show him the coconut oil, and he comes running. It's too hot here this time of year to leave it out. Even in the AC, it gets runny, and when they try to lick it off my fingers, their chests end up greasy, so I keep some for myself, and store the cats' stash in the fridge. I give them cold, little chunks, especially after I test Mini.
The B12. I give both cats a pill a day, since it's too hard to feed them separately. I understand any excess B12 is excreted, so it can't hurt my other cat, who's Mini's brother. I squish the pill into a small spoonful of food in each bow, to make sure they get it all, and then feed them the rest of their food. When Mini started out a month ago, his steps were very halting. He'd take one or two steps and sit down abruptly, and he didn't like me fooling with his back legs when I was brushing him. But now he can make it across a room easily. He's still staying close to the floor, and not jumping on anything, but the vet noticed the muscles in his hind legs were really thin, so I imagine even if his pain is diminished, he'll still need to build his muscles up again before he'll be making any big leaps. When I asked on here about the B12, everyone told me, "It'll work. Just be patient." So I'll tell you the same thing.
Geneva, yes, both of my cats are crazy about coconut oil, and I am too. It took some experimenting, but to get Mini to come for his test I just show him the coconut oil, and he comes running. It's too hot here this time of year to leave it out. Even in the AC, it gets runny, and when they try to lick it off my fingers, their chests end up greasy, so I keep some for myself, and store the cats' stash in the fridge. I give them cold, little chunks, especially after I test Mini.
The B12. I give both cats a pill a day, since it's too hard to feed them separately. I understand any excess B12 is excreted, so it can't hurt my other cat, who's Mini's brother. I squish the pill into a small spoonful of food in each bow, to make sure they get it all, and then feed them the rest of their food. When Mini started out a month ago, his steps were very halting. He'd take one or two steps and sit down abruptly, and he didn't like me fooling with his back legs when I was brushing him. But now he can make it across a room easily. He's still staying close to the floor, and not jumping on anything, but the vet noticed the muscles in his hind legs were really thin, so I imagine even if his pain is diminished, he'll still need to build his muscles up again before he'll be making any big leaps. When I asked on here about the B12, everyone told me, "It'll work. Just be patient." So I'll tell you the same thing.
Hillary & Maui (GA)
Member Since 2009
We like to say if your cat can stay within normal range 40 - 120 for 2 weeks without insulin, then the cat is OTJ - off the juice (in remission).
Then you continue to treat as if diabetic - feeding low carb foods, testing weekly, then monthly, then occasionally or when something seems "off".
Once a diabetic always a diabetic, - hopefully remission is forever, but illness, dental issues, etc can cause the cat to have high BG's.
Then you continue to treat as if diabetic - feeding low carb foods, testing weekly, then monthly, then occasionally or when something seems "off".
Once a diabetic always a diabetic, - hopefully remission is forever, but illness, dental issues, etc can cause the cat to have high BG's.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
I think we should call this an OTJ trial for your kitty Mini.
OTJ Trial instructions
Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:
Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.
So, one more week of twice daily testing for Mini and if the numbers continue to be so fantastic, we have a party!
OTJ Trial instructions
Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:
- Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas). The morning test is now called the AMBG. The evening test is now called the PMBG.
- If your cat is green (0-99 mg/L human meter, 0-130 mg/L pet meter, 0-5.5 mmoL) at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If the numbers are blue (100-199 human meter, 130-230 pet meter, 5.5-11 mmoL), feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
- After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party! And boy, do we party hearty.
Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.
So, one more week of twice daily testing for Mini and if the numbers continue to be so fantastic, we have a party!
He dipped really low this morning, to 21. Scared me. So I fed him (it was the normal time), and he jumped back to 55.
When they were free-feeding dry food It seemed like they were always hungry, and kinda talkatively needy all the time, and that was for the first 12 years of their lives (insert huge guilt). But now that they're on canned food, they seem calmer and more content all day, and then an hour before mealtime they get kinda frantic, and then they wolf their food. So thank you so much for the suggestion. More smaller meals throughout the day in the future.
Thank you so much for all your wonderful help.
When they were free-feeding dry food It seemed like they were always hungry, and kinda talkatively needy all the time, and that was for the first 12 years of their lives (insert huge guilt). But now that they're on canned food, they seem calmer and more content all day, and then an hour before mealtime they get kinda frantic, and then they wolf their food. So thank you so much for the suggestion. More smaller meals throughout the day in the future.
Thank you so much for all your wonderful help.
Geneva
Member Since 2014
starling said:
starling - I know what you mean, having seen the same thing with my cats. Imagine you had to eat fish-flavored Fritos all your life and finally someone gives you a STEAK. Yeah, I'd be pretty content too ... :lol:
Just so amazed at Mini's progress ... you're both doing GREAT!
Wow, Geneva, I just looked at Alice's numbers, and she's coming down nicely, too. Looks like you and I have been living similar lives for the last month or two.
Yeah, things have changed around here. They used to just eat dry food when they wanted, and when the amount of food in the bowl went down, I added more. For all those years. The same gross, expensive kibble from Petsmart. I thought I was feeding them the good stuff. But it feels like we're all more in tune together, now that the cats have actual meals through the day. Before, if I ever imagined feeding them canned food, one of the big things that stopped me was I was sure they'd be hungry and bugging me all the time for food, but instead, things are peaceful and everybody seems so much happier.
I'm curious. How did you find out Alice had diabetes, and what were you told by your vet about diet, etc?
Yeah, things have changed around here. They used to just eat dry food when they wanted, and when the amount of food in the bowl went down, I added more. For all those years. The same gross, expensive kibble from Petsmart. I thought I was feeding them the good stuff. But it feels like we're all more in tune together, now that the cats have actual meals through the day. Before, if I ever imagined feeding them canned food, one of the big things that stopped me was I was sure they'd be hungry and bugging me all the time for food, but instead, things are peaceful and everybody seems so much happier.
I'm curious. How did you find out Alice had diabetes, and what were you told by your vet about diet, etc?
Geneva
Member Since 2014
starling said:
I've *known* Alice for over 10 years ... I was her cat-sitter when her mom/owner was out of town. Alice was diagnosed in April. Sadly, my friend passed away unexpectedly on June 26 and I adopted Alice.
I know what you mean about thinking you were feeding your cats "the good stuff" because it was expensive and came from Petsmart. I guess we've all made a lot of mistakes when it comes to our furbabies, but isn't it great that we have the knowledge now to make up for that? :smile:
Dusty Bones
Member Since 2013
Yeah, those numbers look AMAZING! Keep up the good work and we'll soon be celebrating your OTJ!
Thanks, Dusty!
Oh, Geneva. You and your kitties have been through it, and I'm so, so sorry you lost your friend. But it sounds like the cats are super lucky to have you as their new-ish, concerned mommy. Are you tempted to show Alice's numbers to the vet?
I'm new to this diabetes stuff, and I do not understand why vets are so stubborn and resistant to the truth about feline diet and diabetes. Except as I looked around the vet's office with new eyes the last time I was there, I suddenly noticed all the ads, posters, decals and promotions for Science Diet. They're everywhere. On counters and walls, right in the examining room. I also remember while we were there, a family came in with their little Scottie dog, back for more help with his diabetes, and they looked so desperate and sad, and the dog looked very unhealthy, and I don't know anything about canine diabetes, so I could be wrong, but I have to wonder if he was eating that godawful SD food, made, ironically, to treat diabetes. Mine was $24 for a little four pound bag.
Why doesn't Science Diet make a high quality, low-carb canned food?
I printed my spreadsheet and showed it to the vet, and she seemed interested, but who knows if it'll change anything. I'm always getting on my high horse about perceived injustices... sigh.
I still haven't looked at alternatives to Friskies Pate. The pate was easy to find at the grocery store, it's affordable and the cats LOVE it. Plus, it actually smells pretty appealing. But I keep thinking it wouldn't be that hard to cook and freeze some chicken thighs for the cats. I'll take a look at Dr. Pierson's site. Thanks for the link.
Alex
Oh, Geneva. You and your kitties have been through it, and I'm so, so sorry you lost your friend. But it sounds like the cats are super lucky to have you as their new-ish, concerned mommy. Are you tempted to show Alice's numbers to the vet?
I'm new to this diabetes stuff, and I do not understand why vets are so stubborn and resistant to the truth about feline diet and diabetes. Except as I looked around the vet's office with new eyes the last time I was there, I suddenly noticed all the ads, posters, decals and promotions for Science Diet. They're everywhere. On counters and walls, right in the examining room. I also remember while we were there, a family came in with their little Scottie dog, back for more help with his diabetes, and they looked so desperate and sad, and the dog looked very unhealthy, and I don't know anything about canine diabetes, so I could be wrong, but I have to wonder if he was eating that godawful SD food, made, ironically, to treat diabetes. Mine was $24 for a little four pound bag.
Why doesn't Science Diet make a high quality, low-carb canned food?
I printed my spreadsheet and showed it to the vet, and she seemed interested, but who knows if it'll change anything. I'm always getting on my high horse about perceived injustices... sigh.
I still haven't looked at alternatives to Friskies Pate. The pate was easy to find at the grocery store, it's affordable and the cats LOVE it. Plus, it actually smells pretty appealing. But I keep thinking it wouldn't be that hard to cook and freeze some chicken thighs for the cats. I'll take a look at Dr. Pierson's site. Thanks for the link.
Alex
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