? Numbers dropping low?

My cats numbers have been super low lately so i haven’t been shooting for the past few days under 200. He dropped all the way down to 30 at one point and only climbed up to 86 by the end of the night. I’m going to ask my girlfriend to set up a sheet in less than an hour so hopefully you guys can see where we’re at and I can get some feedback. I have a day off tomorrow and planned a visit with a vet. My other vet continued to tell me to test and shoot no matter what. And i did when he was about 150 and he dropped to that low low number. I’m stressed to the max. He seems ok now besides not drinking. (Goes to bowl touches it but doesn’t drink.) that’s what a i want to talk to the new vet about. Should I be super concerned? He’s eating ff and some dried treats. I haven’t given him insulin in two days because his numbers are so low. Even when he got to 186 this am, after eating +1 went down to 140. I’m going to test him now which is +1 and his number is....64.
I just can’t call the vet because I’m sure he will tell me give him insulin? Is he like this because I haven’t given it to him? He’s been eating all morning so far. What are some next steps i can take?

 

If you cat has NOT had insulin in two days he should be safe.

 

what insulin are you using?

 

Hi Kelly,

Please confirm:

- your cat has NOT had any insulin for several days.

- your meter type (human meter or pet meter).


Mogs
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The above is to make sure I understand properly what your situation is.


Mogs
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Also, what type of dry treats are you giving your kitty?


Mogs
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Thanks.
Novolun
human meter (now bc I ran out of strips)
Pure bites freeze dried chicken
Novolun N

and he just drank for the first time in weeks just now a few sips and he’s going back. he kept going to bowl but not drinking. He usually just spills the whole bowl and walks away. I was giving fluids but he hates it and I wasn’t the best at it doing it alone. I made an appointment for tomorrow but THIS NEW VET phone receptionist is like “ why haven’t you given insulin” I said well I don’t know I don’t want to hurt my cat and his numbers are low.
It’s like they judge you or something.

 

Well thats the receptionist, most of them think they know it all. Obviously, if your cat is too low to shoot, hes too low to shoot.

 

That is insane and incredibly dangerous.
Glad you are checking out a new vet.
Here is a vet checklist that has been put together over time.

• Vet Interview/Screening Topics & Check List
• • Vet Interview Topics - compiled by BJM from suggestions made by FDMB members

 

Fluids for Kidney issues? Have you tested his urine for keytones?

 

thank you

 

no I originally asked the Dr about that andsaid not to worry. Ill ask them tomorrow to do that. if theres keytones, then what?

 

i read up on it now. Im having trouble figuring out how to make a spread sheet

 

@Chris & China (GA) can help with your spreadsheet

 

Keytones are serious business if present he NEEDS to be at the vets *emergency situation*

 

Thanks, yeah hes going in the morning

 

RECEPTIONIST:“Why haven’t you given insulin?”

KELLY: "What part of 'low blood glucose levels' do you not understand?"



Thank the gods that you home test, Kelly, and that you ignored the appallingly dangerous 'shoot, no matter what' advice you got from your previous vet. You saved your cat's life.

I'd say less 'judge-y', more 'hard of thinking'.

Looks like your cat's pancreas may be starting to produce more insulin, at least part of the time. (Sputtering, as it's referred to here.) Normally that's the reason why you see drops in BG levels a short time after meals. If this is the case, your cat might be heading for diabetic remission.

The 186 and 150 readings you provided in your opening post show that sometimes your cat's BG does pop above the normal range. If that's the case, then your cat's pancreas might need a little more support from insulin to help it go that last mile to the point where he becomes diet-controlled BUT Novolin is no longer a suitable or safe insulin for your cat to be given. If he does need a little longer on insulin then I recommend you ask your vet about using either Lantus or Levemir, insulins which are typically much, much gentler in their action and don't drop BG levels like a rock in the way that Novolin N does. We can give you more of a steer on this once your spreadsheet is up and running.

Am I correct to assume that your cat has been eating Fancy Feast wet food and is eating plenty? Assuming I am, then now that your cat is running in lower BG numbers he's not tipping glucose into his urine, isn't peeing as much and therefore doesn't need to drink as much as when his sugars were unregulated. He is probably now getting as much water as he needs from his food. (Canned food is usually minimum 70% water.)

If your kitty is eating enough food, getting enough water from the food he eats, peeing the same amount as a non-diabetic cat and running most of the time in normal numbers (50-120mg/dL on a human meter) then, unless there is something as yet undiagnosed, he should be fine.

Jeanne recommended above that you check your kitty's pee for ketones. It's a safety precaution when reducing / suspending insulin treatment. These links provide further information and useful tips:

Testing Your Cat for Ketones

Tips for Collecting Urine Samples


Mogs
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Agree with Mogs, please do not give any more Novalin for the time being, just be sure to get a ketone test in for caution's sake. I am so glad you're going to a new vet!

Not sure anyone shared this link yet: FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

 

Also see:

Understanding the Spreadsheet Grid


Mogs
.

 

Thank you guys so much. That all helps. Called new vets to get him in for a hospital stay because he is super lethargic. Lying around all day. I know cats obviously do that but he just melts, lost weight, just not normal, they all quoted me close to a thousand all together. Have to u guys had stats like that? How did they come out? All healthy? Lol who knows. They said if he’s lethargic he needs to come in ASAP but i have to wait until Friday to get paid. There’s my whole check . I don’t know how i would be able to catch his pee... I’m off to work but I’ll read that. Do you have to like catch it as it falls lol I’ve never even seen his pee. We have a closed box

 

Ummm i dont want to scare you but I wouldnt wait to take him in. And yes I've had my bank account depleted by vets

Have you heard of Care Credit? I'm sure your vet works with them.

To catch pee youre going to have to take that top off the box. Use a ladle to slide under him OR use a CLEAN box with a tiny amount of litter in it. put something small under one side so the pee drains into one corner dip strip in the pee.

I'm sorry lethargic isnt good.

 

Ketone Testing Basics

Put a couple of layers of saran wrap over the litter in the box before you leave. Push the wrap down into the litter to make a little hollow. If your cat has a 'favourite spot' in the box that's a good place to make the hollow. Some urine should collect in the hollow. Check the box at regular intervals until your kitty 'performs'.

You can get the ketone test strips anywhere that sells diabetic supplies (e.g. Walmart).

You only need a small amount of pee to dip the test strip into.

Anything more than trace ketones and you need to get your cat seen by a vet as a matter of urgency (DKA is life-threatening).

That doesn't sound normal at all, and was not clear from your opening post. You know your cat. If he's that 'off' and losing weight then I'd recommend you get a vet to check him over ASAP and take things from there.


Mogs
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I am going ASAP. He’s been this way for a while. Bloodwork all came back normal and she sent me with a load of stuff. He’s on ursodol and denemarin to help his liver- he’s had issues before in the past. I’ve posted results somewhere on this. I wasn’t thinking about all of this and was just concerned with the low numbers at the time. I’m taking him in ASAP and plan to spend my entire check. I’ll figure it out. I’ll look into the tests too. All that info was really helpful thanks. I hate to look like a bad mom but he’s ok then he’s lethargic it’s just so confusing because he looks normal and acts normal but he’s just lying around a lot.
good news he is drinking and eating compared to none of that a week or two ago

 

[Update after reading your message: have them check for pancreatitis (they can do a SNAP fPL test in-house, or send out for the more detailed Spec fPL), especially if they haven't tested for it before. Get some sub-cutaneous fluids into him-- if he's dehydrated, it might go a long way to perking him up.]

Oof. I hope it's nothing serious, but I agree-- lethargy in a diabetic cat who hasn't gotten insulin in a couple days must be checked out. The first and most critical thing to test is ketones-- if that's clear, that's a huge worry off. You say he's been eating FF and some treats-- that's really really helpful. Ketones tend to develop when there's not enough insulin and not enough food, and when they show up, they make the cat feel too lousy to want to eat anything (vicious cycle). If he's still eating, it's a hopeful sign that it's either early in the process, or something else entirely with an easy fix (and smaller price tag!).

Fingers and paws crossed....

 

If I understand the above correctly, the lethargy is only present part of the time. Some questions:

- When were the periods of lethargy worse?
- Was there any relationship between the part of the insulin cycle (beginning/middle/end) and the degree of lethargy?
- How long did the periods of lethargy last?
- Has the lethargy got worse or better since you stopped giving insulin?


Mogs
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He comes out of the bed to walk around the house like 4-5 times a day. He would rather sleep and be in bed all day. I have it all made up like a damn hotel for him in there with everything he needs. So while he’s lying there he looks lethargic like melting into the bed (very cute) but like melting into the bed . So it’s morning noon night. When he comes walking around the corner and out of the room he looks fine. I can’t say if there’s a middle time I mean he just looks lethargic all the time. My girlfriend says he’s just sleeping he looks perfectly fine so that’s one persons thought. She’s not on this page trying to get help. He seemed to be doing well on the insulin so I’m not sure what happened. He did have an episode this weekend and he was spitting out of both ends bc he ate a beef ( he doesn’t sit well with beef) so we thought that could have been the issue

Thank you so much. I’m going to look into asking these questions as soon as i get there. I’m getting so many mixed opinions it’s driving me nuts. Hopefully I go there and check these people out and they can actually help. I appreciate your feedback

 

He’s lethargic when he’s in bed more or less. He looks ill when he’s just lying there being all cute and cuddly but then he will get up and be fine walking around the house. He’s usuAlly very fat and very lazy but lately he walks in and goes back to relax... walks around and goes to sleep. So it was god awful when we noticed he was sick, and he was hiding, not eating, looked like hell. He’s a lot better now but now he’s dropping insanely low and still moving around technically

 

Thank you

 

Hello,

Would you like to try to add some water to his FF, he might lick it.
And ask your Dr. if Fortiflora is ok with him. Cats like the taste of fortiflora. You just sprinkle a little on his food (after adding water on it), they love to lick it. It might help him to drink the water mixed with FF and fortiflora.

thanks

 

A FRESHLY CRACKED CAN is what he usually lives for... he definitely loves licking it up and then slowly going back to eating it a little at a time.
I’m going to look into all this stuff. He’s drinking so much right now too. He just looks so frail.
We’ve been living at my sisters house for 4 years then he stayed there for a few months without me April to August and I got the call to come get him. ( oh now he’s sick my sister will allow me to have my cat back) kinda thing. She’s obsessed with him too. She wouldn’t let me take him to my new place It’s just heart breaking.
I feel like he’s getting somewhere slowly, making progress, but somethings definitely gotta be wrong with him. I’m being told pancreatitis a lot. I am open to healing whatever my little paycheck can offer.
So update... I’ve never been pee’d on by a cat up until about 10 minutes ago. I left work and got the strips- he was at 108 and I can’t make it out clearly but I have a picture. I tested three of them and waited too long to get the pic but the one with the bottle is another fresh one I got. What do y’all think

 

It's really hard to know. The ketone strips need to be compared to the graph at exactly 15 seconds or they continue to darken. (which is almost impossible if you're both the "tester" and the "camera person")

I'm concerned that they all seem a little darker than I'd like though. Is he eating well? I know you've been concerned about lethargy but has he started hiding under things or in quiet areas (like a closet)?

Are you taking him to the vet later today? (it's 1:30am for me) I'd definitely get him in somewhere for ketone test (they can do a blood test that will be a lot more accurate that the urine test strips)

 

They were all super light. Like white white almost the same as the color on the strip. So the other one is more accurate that I’m holding. I can’t go until Friday because of the costs. It’s 170 just for visit to this specialist of some sort. I was hoping to hospitalize him if anything but maybe they can figure something out while he is there

 

Those dark ones are like 5 min later...
yes he’s hidden in closets and in shower at the beginning of this ordeal but now he only goes under this big wooden kitchen table we have. He’s always liked going under tables. So for now he likes being in the bed comfy and now he’s on a pillow next to me on the couch. He seems to like flat places or a good pillow or bed.
I think the hiding has stopped more or less.