Numbers Check

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Elizabeth & Binx, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    Good Morning All,
    I know normally you want at least two weeks worth for checking, but we recently started testing and I'm concerned with Binx's numbers. I just want to make sure I am doing what it best for Binx. We were at the vet on 07/09/2021 for a glucose check because at this point we were not home testing, his reading was at 47. The vet stated that since he wasn't any symptoms of hypoglycemia, he should stay on the same dose (3 units am, 2 units pm). Since then we have started home testing, and switched food of to the Fancy Feast Naturals Pate. His numbers have been in the 50-99 range, I reduced him to 2 units am, and 1 unit pm. This morning when we first tested it was 87 and then when we tested before his injection it was down to 73, so I only gave him 1 unit this morning. Could anyone give me some advice? I'm just worried about him going to low.
     
  2. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Oh dear, you're not having any luck getting quick replies! The Prozinc ISG has been really, really quiet lately.

    To be honest, looking at your spreadsheet I'm at a loss as to what I'm seeing, I've never seen anything like it before. The pattern of the numbers and the different doses you've been giving just don't jive for me for lack of a better term and I'm wondering if your insulin is even working and it's your kitty's own numbers we're seeing. Have you been using the current vial of insulin for very long?

    When caregivers are seeing numbers like you are it would be time for an OTJ trial.

    I'll tag @JanetNJ and @Deb & Wink and ask them to have a look, maybe they've seen something like this before.
     
  3. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    Thank you for answering my post! I'd say I've been using the vial since May of this year, I placed the order on 04/28/2021 with Chewy, and started it maybe a week or two after. That would be great, I appreciate any help I can get for Binx!
     
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  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I would not shoot these numbers! Normal is 50-120.. If he's in this range he doesn't need insulin. Your cat may be diet controlled.
     
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  5. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    @Elizabeth & Binx
    Looks like both of us think something's up.
    I think you have a bad vial of insulin.
    Please keep testing but stop all insulin if you keep seeing these kind of numbers.

    You may have just saved your cats life. I don't even want to think about what might have happened if in fact this vial is bad and you started a new full strength vial and kept shooting like you have been without testing.

    Please keep us posted.
     
  6. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    So don't give him any insulin unless he above 120? And if so, should I keep trying with the same vial or open a new vial? I'll keep you guys updated on his progress!
     
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  7. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Let's get some data first without insulin to see what's really going on. After you've collected this data we'll be able to make more informed decisions about what vial of insulin to use, how much of a dose to shoot and at what numbers to start shooting at if needed. I wouldn't jump the gun and start shooting the first 120 you might see. Sound good?
     
  8. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    Okay, sounds good. I did not give him his morning dose since he was at 83. I just tested, and Binx was at 99, so I will skip this evening's dose as well. He ate about 2-3 hours ago.
     
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  9. Hshray

    Hshray Member

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    Feb 26, 2021
    Binx is looking great!
     
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  10. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

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    Jul 13, 2021
    I think so too! I'm hoping it keeps up and that maybe he is in remission? Maybe wishful thinking this early on. I'm trying to make a hypo toolbox for those just in-case moments, any idea where I can get packets of honey to keep in there and in my car for when we travel to the vet?
     
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  11. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    I am so, so, SO glad you trusted your instincts and started home testing!!
    Did he get a steroid shot for his allergies last fall too?

    I have a few choice words for your vet, but will keep most of them to myself...however, would like to comment about what you said here. I'm going to assume (I know we shouldn't assume things) he's a vet and most likely using a pet meter....47 is low on a human meter but holy crap, that's scary low if it was a pet meter! The guidance he gave you when he got this number is very concerning.

    Again, so glad you started home testing!

    Go Binx Go!
     
  12. Hshray

    Hshray Member

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    Feb 26, 2021
    Not sure where you’re located, but I think they sell these at Walmart.
     
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  13. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

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    Jul 13, 2021
    He had an injection of depo-medrol on 11/25/2020, and we started half a zyrtec tablet when symptoms were really bad. I'm glad I started home testing too, I was so worried about him dropping to low during the night when everyone was sleeping. Binx is a night-time cat, so it was hard to tell if he was sleeping just to sleep or if he was low, since he normally sleeps during the day. If he makes it to remission, that will make me feel even better! I have to go to the vet on August 13th again for their check, and I'm not sure what to say, since I stopped following their advice! I'm grateful for the help they did give, but the staying the same dose when he is high or to low is very concerning to me.
     
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  14. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

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    Jul 13, 2021

    We live in Pennsylvania, I will definitely check Walmart out though! Thanks!
     
  15. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

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    Jul 13, 2021
    So Binx has been off insulin for 14 days now, I believe he is diet controlled (we've been doing ff and friskies pate, plus 1/4c of Purina DM). I've been testing about 4 to 5 times per day. Opinions on decreasing testing frequency to twice a day, one am/ one pm?
     
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  16. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Oh what a fantastic update!!!

    Yes - 14 days in normal numbers without insulin to consider a cat OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice) and "in remission". Binx is now diet controlled. He's still diabetic, but doesn't need insulin right now.

    CONGRATULATIONS on having an OTJ kitty!

    Here are some tips to stay OTJ:
    1. Never feed dry - not even treats. (freeze dried is ok, Dr. Elsey's chicken flavor is ok.) If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
    2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission. Too much of a weight loss alerts you to other issues, such as hyperthyroidism.
    3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely if possible. You want to catch a relapse quickly. Some people only do checks every 2 weeks to a month. BG checks can sometimes alert you to other issues.
    4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check. (Steroids may be needed for other medical issues. But remind your vet your cat is a diabetic, diet controlled.)
    5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission. Or another medical condition like Hyper-T or kidney disease.
    6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quickly!
    7.Continue to ketone test even if your cat is OTJ. Ketones can develop if the cat’s pancreas is not producing enough insulin, or burning off too much fat if your cat is not eating properly and other reasons.

    If your cat does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any. Pancreatitis, hyperthyroid, dental issues are the most common reasons cats fall out of remission.

    "Once a diabetic, always a diabetic." They are simply diet controlled.
     
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  17. Elizabeth & Binx

    Elizabeth & Binx New Member

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    Jul 13, 2021
    Great! Thank you for the information! Hopefully he is able to stay in remission for quite a while!
     
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