Numbers are not budging!!!

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Becky & Morlei

Becky & Morlei

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Hello everyone,

I am getting frustrated with Morlei's cycles. Her bg is not moving! It seems like the insulin is having no effect on her. After reading some other posts I have determined that she will stay on the insulin just to make sure she has some in her body. I did a curve last night and today and her numbers are basically the same throughout the whole day. It hardly even seems to spike for the food. I test for ketones whenever I catch her in the box, so far has been negative or between negative-trace.

I am thinking of switching her to Lantus after this bottle of ProZinc is done...my goal, like everyone else's, is remission and I know I need to start the Lantus protocol within six months of diagnosis to try and get her into that 84% remission rate.

Any ideas of what could be causing this? Any opinions of switching over this soon after starting? We were thinking of taking her back in after we move, so the 2nd week of March sometime, that will be about 2 months after her initial dx.
 
I know you have posted in PZI and we have been as puzzled as you. You get 200s for preshots but very flat cycles. Morlei's patterns are just something we have not seen.

The only thing I can suggest is down. You could lower the dose to .5, test for ketones and see if there is any movement. You did have some in early cycles.

You raised the dose to 2 units and the numbers didn't change, so going up doesn't seem to make any sense.
 
just out of curiosity, what meter are you using for testing?
that mention of always around 200s makes me think of the problems others have had with the freestyle meters.

it is important to know that the numbers will NOT be the first changes you see.
Watch the cat for improvements, less urine in the box, improvement in the coat, acting better and more like before, happier, more purring, that sort of thing.
The better numbers will follow soon after you see the changes in the cat.
 
We are using the Relion Micro. Her visible symptoms are pretty much gone...doesn't camp out by the water bowl, doesn't flood the litter box, eats about 8-8.5 oz a day and is slowing putting on the pound she needs to gain back...this all happened within the first two weeks so I know the insulin did something for her. She's had some diarrhea the past week but I bought some plain psyllium powder and have been putting it in her food mixed with plenty of water. Seems to be helping. I'd like to take a sample in but have not been able to get one that is fresh enough. I have some Fortiflora coming in on Monday so I'm hoping that'll help her with that issue and help the boys to finally get off the dry.
But I just don't know what else I can do, I'm starting to obsess and it's making my last semester of grad school pretty tough :sad:
 
Baxter is on ProZinc. Today he has been in the 300s all day really hasn't moved on 1.25 this morning. I started to wonder if the insulin is bad?
I use the Relion Confirm meter.

Please don't stress out. Everything is going to work out in a positive outcome.
Jenn & Baxter
 
Becky & Morlei said:
We are using the Relion Micro. Her visible symptoms are pretty much gone...doesn't camp out by the water bowl, doesn't flood the litter box, eats about 8-8.5 oz a day and is slowing putting on the pound she needs to gain back...this all happened within the first two weeks so I know the insulin did something for her. She's had some diarrhea the past week but I bought some plain psyllium powder and have been putting it in her food mixed with plenty of water. Seems to be helping. I'd like to take a sample in but have not been able to get one that is fresh enough. I have some Fortiflora coming in on Monday so I'm hoping that'll help her with that issue and help the boys to finally get off the dry.
But I just don't know what else I can do, I'm starting to obsess and it's making my last semester of grad school pretty tough :sad:
Click to expand...

If I had not read your first post, and just read the above, hearing all the improvements you are seeing, I would be inclined to be leaning towards ECSTATIC.

I think it's important to know that cats hide their problems well, very well, and you have no way of knowing just how long she has been diabetic. Some cats are pretty stubborn about going along with what WE want, and it could just be that she may take a bit longer than you want to get into the lower numbers. Some cats take months to realize the progress that you have had in just a few weeks, so be happy!

Ultimately, you want to keep her numbers under 240 or so, renal threshold, so that you don't have to worry about any organ damage. You have a decent meter, so you don't have to worry about the meter. The numbers will come down, but in the majority of cases, the visual signs of improvement will come first, and you have already seen lots of those, so I am sure the numbers will follow soon.... when SHE feels like it.
 
Can you check your own blood sugar and one of your civvies to make sure the meter is working correctly?

Human (nondiabetic) fasting blood sugar is between 65-99 and cats are like 50-75.

Could be your kitty is just really insulin resistant, or this new vial is also bad. Either way, I think you need to get to a vet who will work with you and Morlei.

Good luck xx

Lori
 
On 2/8 one of my other cats was 46 and I just tested myself now and it was 86. Do you think we should go to the vet this week rather than wait till March?
 
Ok, we called the vet's office but the only vet in the practice that we will see now already left for the day. She'll be giving us a call tomorrow to discuss switching Morlei over to Lantus. Got a quote from Walgreens for it...um can I pretend I'm diabetic so I can get it covered by my insurance?! Looked up Canadian pharmacies and we'll probably go with canadadrugpharmacy.com. Called their number and asked how the process works with getting them the script (I've never ordered prescriptions online), and it looks like if the vet will approve this switch then we'll have the insulin by the time we move, which is about the time we wanted to do it anyways. If the vet doesn't want to switch her...off to find a new vet.
I did something that is a huge no-no today...but I had to see what happens before we talk to the vet tomorrow...I gave Morlei the original 3u dose the vet prescribed. I just wanted to make sure that she didn't change on that high of a dose so we can tell the vet it isn't working...I'm home all day, have been keeping her close and watching her behavior, testing every 2 hours (will do more frequently if need be), have syrup, wet with gravy, and dry food ready if the need arises. Her +2 was 278 so barely a drop from her AMPS. I read on here that ProZinc is different from Lantus/Levemir in that once the insulin is gone from the system, it's gone, it isn't stored in their shed/depot, so I figured it couldn't hurt to just try. I was almost ashamed to post that I did this but I did it with the best intentions for Morlei and am prepared in case she goes hypo.
I'll post her +4 when I get it in about 10 minutes.
 
Hey Becky,

Awww don't feel ashamed about giving the 3U. When it comes down to it, Morlei is your cat and you are doing what you think is best given the info you have - including advice from here and from your vet, as well as your own perceptions of how she is feeling and your ability to monitor her. Makes sense that if you can show the curve to the vet it will go a lot further to show "it isn't doing anything". I've got fingers crossed you're able to get this sorted out. Scritches for Morlei!

Lori
 
Oh by the way the numbers you got for yourself and your civvie look right on the money, so at least we know your meter is working. :) Also, congrats, you are not diabetic. ;)

Lor
 
I feel for you, we are in the same place only our insulin is Lantus and we have reached a much higher dose. My vet has done a ton of research to see if we've missed something and just believes we haven't reached our needed dose yet :YMSIGH: It sure is frustrating when it doesn't seem to make a dang bit of difference.
 
Hang in there. Sometimes there is some resistance to the insulin when the numbers have been high for a while - its as if the body got used to the higher numbers. If you persist and raise the dose according to the protocol, it will eventually work. (I finally started seeming some occasional decent numbers on Spitzer ... after 1 1/2 years! He does have some other issues besides diabetes.)
 
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