Not sure which food to choose!

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wsugold

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Hi everyone,

from what i have read, i need to get simba off the dry food.
his level was 438 when the vet called today. she said she doesnt think insulin is needed yet....but i'm not so sure honestly after reading d/f things and other posts.
she wants to wait a month. but i'm afraid to do that. when we went to the vet he had lost 3 lbs....he was 19, now down to 16lbs. i've always thought my cat chubby was cute...and even 3 lbs i can see a huge difference in his size. he is shrinking. but i know he needs to. when he lost the 3lbs he wasn't on a diet at all!

but from what i've read about the canned food, it seems like that is better. but i'm just so confused on which one is best! at this point, i want the best for him, and if i have to pay a high price for it then so be it. but what foods do you use for him?

i always fed him purina dry food. now she gave me hill prescription m/d dry food. b/f i would just leave the food out all day and fill it to the top and he could eat at his lesure. how he is cut down to a 1/2 cup in the morning, and a 1/2 cup at night. so far though he seems to like the food which is good, but i've seen alot of people don't think its necessary.

i am so overwhelmed by everything and am trying to do as much research as quick as i can but in the meantime i dont want simba to suffer for my slowness on research.

what canned foods do you all use and why?

thanks in advance!
 
FIrst off I completely disagree with your vet about him not needing insulin yet...that is a very diabetic number when you consider that normal for a non-diabetic cat is 40-120 (0n a human meter) or 70-150 (on a cat caliberated meter).

Anything over 250 and Simba is spilling sugar into his urine which can lead to a host of health problems from UTIs to DKA which can be deadly if not caught soon enough.

That said as far as food goes, I have 13 cats two of which are diabetic but only one is still on insulin. Everyone here eats exactly what my diabetics eat...Friskies pate style Turkey & Giblets. This is the diet that got my Maxwell into remission and off insulin (He was 485 when diagnoised), also with 13 it fits well into my budget as I can get the larger 13oz cans for 92 cents at Walmart. And everyone likes it. In fact my non-diabetics think they hit the jackpot when mom adopted 2 diabetics because they now get the yummy wet food all the time. If I would have known years ago what a wet diet would do for even my non-diabetics there would have never been dry food in my house. Everyone is now sleek and silky, lean and muscular. I have two kittens that are just a little over a year old now that have never had dry food and they are absolutely stunning to look at their fur is so shiny it looks wet like a seal, and these are kittens that started out life very ill and part of a feral colony.

Others here use Fancy Feast Classics, 9-Lives pate style, Wellness, Evo or Merrick just about anything that is on Binky's list that is below 10% on carbs and Simba likes will work just find. It usually comes down to what fits in the budget and that the cat will eat. I have tried the higher end foods with my bunch but not all of them would eat it, Friskies is something everyone can agree on here.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Super good decision to get rid of the dry food. We made the switch to canned food slowly, and once the dry was removed entirely Beauregard no longer needed insulin with a couple of weeks. So, don't underestimate the healing power of the can!

There are good reference lists here:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...MzhkYTkxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

and

http://felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm

You generally want no more than 10% of calories from carbs; many choose to stay at 5% or less.

One note of caution, there can be a significant and immediate lowering of blood glucose with the removal of the dry food. If you are going to go with your vet's advice and not start insulin immediately, it would be safe to switch as soon as reasonably possible. However, If you decide to go with some insulin support sooner than your vet recommends (which seems like it might be prudent since his BG levels are quite high, but others with more experience might have a differing opinion) you might want to wait for a while before transition to see how Simba reacts to the insulin. Either way, please be home testing his blood glucose levels and keep a watchful eye on the results.

I hope your Simba transitions as easily as General Beauregard BooBooKitty did. He will pretty much eat anything that's on hand, but some kitties as we all know can get a little finicky. We have a wide variety of Fancy Feast Classics (note there are several varieties of Fancy Feast - the "Classics" line is the lowest carb they offer), some Sophisticats, some Wellness, and his fav is Merrick's Cowboy Cookout. The problem with that one is that he likes it a little too much and will eat so that it results in some indegestion, so it's his treat food and he only gets a spoonful at a time.

Good luck with the transition!
 
As others have said, any food under 10% carbs is good for a diabetic cat. I've tried a lot of different premium cat foods over the years, and in my personal opinion Merricks is the best. The Cowboy Cookout and Surf and Turf flavors are high protein, low carb and lower in fat, which is great for maintaining a healthy weight and building muscle. They are lower in phosphorus (a concern for cats over the age of 12), and they use human grade ingredients.


Here's an updated nutrition chart for many different premium foods: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...kxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50&pli=1. Again, you don't have to feed a premium food but if you can afford it they tend to use better quality ingredients. Here's a great page that talks about what to look for in a canned food: http://catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

If you read down the page a bit, the breakdown for a cat's natural prey is:

Protein calories = 50 - 70%

Fat calories = 10 - 30%

Carbohydrate calories = <5%

So trying to stay as close to that as you can will give you a healthier food. Keep in mind that a lot of the premium foods are very high in fat because they use fat as a filler instead of byproducts like the grocery store brands, so any premium food isn't necessarily better than any grocery store brand--it depends on what works for your cat. For example, Bandit doesn't handle high fat foods well so if Merricks suddenly went out of business tomorrow and I had to pick a new canned food, we'd probably go back to Fancy Feast (because it has a better protein/fat ratio for most flavors), or feed a raw diet if I was able (I have major time constraint issues or I would opt for that now).

Some cats also develop allergies to certain types of protein sources over time. Fish is the most common, with Beef and Lamb also being two big offenders. Most cats will handle them fine, but it's something to watch out for if your cat isn't reacting well to a certain type of food. You have to watch ingredient labels in this case--for example, Fancy Feast Tender Beef contains fish.

If you are able, feeding a raw diet is also a very healthy way to go. You can control the quality and content of the food yourself. Here's some more info about that: http://catinfo.org/#Home-Prepared_Diets
 
Hi there. I'm totally new to this as well. Ruby has always eaten dry food. It took her a couple of weeks, but she's finally taken to the canned food. We go with the classic Fancy Feast. She doesn't like the fish flavors. It seems like the Chopped Grill, Beef, and Beef & Liver are her favorites and will occasionally go for Turkey & Giblets. She turns her nose up if I feed her the same flavor twice in a row, which is why I have so many listed. Like you, I was willing to pay for the prescription food if that's what she would eat. She refused to go near the canned DM, which is what our vet carries. I also tried Wellness and Friskies. She didn't care for those either. Ruby is a hefty 14 lbs so we're hoping she'll slowly lose some weight as well.

And I'm still totally overwhelmed, too. Everyone here has been really great and helpful when I post my panicked messages. Last week Ruby's numbers started going down into the 40's and Sue (Sue and Oliver) stayed online with me until after midnight, talking me thru the process of making sure Ru was ok. I'm extremely grateful for that. I probably would have dragged poor Ru to the emergency vet and I don't think that would have helped anyone.
 
Hello and welcome I use fancy feast classic for callie cat_pet_icon I've tried others but she won't eat them ECID I printed binkys list and went to petco got a variety ened up donating most of it to the humane society cat_pet_icon
 
Hooray for you for wanting to switch to all canned and away from dry! And great for Simba! dancing_cat

Based on what has happened for other cats here, don't be surprised to see Simba's BGs drop when you do the switch. If you are able, I'd do it before starting the insulin...but unlike your vet, I'd want to get the insulin started as soon as possible due to the high BG. While the switch to canned will help quite a bit, Simba's BG will still be high enough to need the help insulin will give. Also, be sure your vet goes with a good, long lasting insulin like Lantus, Levimir, or ProZinc/PZI compound.

Have you started home testing yet? Home testing is very important to help keep Simba safe. Don't hesitate to ask questions if you need to to get started. :smile: The folks here are super friendly and will help you every step of the way!
 
Good luck with the switch. Achieving regulation in a cat on a dry diet is very difficult, from what I understand, because you have to dose massive amounts of insulin to counter the big amount of carbs they're eating.

The first few times I tried to introduce wet food to Scooter, he would eat a few bites and walk away, but as soon as I added a bit of hot water to it, he was all over it... and now he's hooked on canned food. Unfortunately he has a habit of eating so fast that he vomits, so I have to feed in small portions. He gets a few varieties of Sophisticat Supreme, Friskies, and Special Kitty. Mostly chicken and turkey & giblets. Some salmon or tuna occasionally just to mix it up a bit. He loves it all ;-)
 
My cat, Jack (10 year old male, orange, 18 pounds with a goal of 16 pounds) was recently diagnosed with diabetes and we're also trying to gain control through diet modification. I've elimated the availabilty of dry food and he doesn't seem to miss it. He's only getting canned foods from Binky's list which are less than 7% carbs (per the recommendation of my vet). I've found several brands that he likes and eats which are available from the local grocery store: Friskies, Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets, and Fancy Feast Classic. I've purchased one can of several other products from the list that we've never used before so we have some variety. So far he has tried and eaten Wellness Chicken and really liked the Wellness Turkey.

Hopefully, the change in diet will work.
Good luck,
Sandra and Jack
 
hi everyone!
thank you all again for your support. i truly cant tell you how lucky and grateful i feel that i am not alone and that you guys care so much.

ok, so after reviewing the emails and the canned food list, this is what i have come up w/so far to try. i will buy a variety b/c i dont know what simba will eat. it will be a task i'm sure lol.

anyway, let me know if these are ok and/or if they are not!! is there such a thing of giving him to much protein? there is such a difference in some of them.

friskies - fine cuts w/chicken and gravy , fine cuts w/ocean whitefish and tuna in sauce, and fine cuts w/tuna in sauce
seared filets w/salmon, seared filets w/turkey and giblets, tender cuts w/checken and salmon dinner in gravy

merrick - cowboy cookout

9lives - flaked tuna in sauce and flaked tuna w/cheese bits

sophisticat - flaked tuna dinner and supreme seafood dinner

special kitty - cod, sole and shrimp
tuna and shripmp entree (this has a ton of protein...is this ok?)


trader joes - tuna for cats (again this has a ton of protein..ok?)

also by switching him from dry to canned like this, do i need to watch him for a few hours after he eats? or for a few days to see how he does? i'm just wandering if i should wait till the weekend or start tonight.

thanks
m
 
Most of the list looks fine...except the Friskies stuff...You want to stay away from anything that says Gravy, Grilled, Or Marinated...Almost all the Friskies that are Pate-Style are fine for a diabetic.

Now you will want to have a few cans of the gravy stuff on hand in case of Hypo (low blood sugar) but those are to bring his numbers up if they start going too low and not for daily meals.

You also want to limit fishy flavors to a once and awhile treat food...Fish believe it or not isn't really very good for kitties. Not only can it be an allergen for them, they can get very addicted to it so that they own't eat other flavors, and it is very high in phospherous which isn't good on the older kitties kidneys. If you are going to feed fish flavors ( I can't have a guy that will barf on anything fishy). you want to limit it to once a week.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
Most of the friskies flavors you listed are a bit too high in carbs, and I would not recommend feeding them. Plus, they are all gravy foods. Foods with gravy contain wheat gluten, which tends to be an indication it's going to be high in carbs. Wheat gluten also hooks to cats' intestinal lining and can cause all sorts of problems.

The general recommendation is to feed a food under 10%, but we really try to stay under 7% if possible because most of the foods in the 8-10% range contain grain or other ingredients that you don't want to feed your cat. There are few exceptions.

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Most of the Friskie's Pates are ok to feed--7% or less. I would start there when selecting Friskie's flavors.

We usually suggest you limit fish foods to once or twice a week--cats can become addicted to fish flavors easily, they contain high levels of mercury and phosphorus, and they are the most common food allergy for cats (which builds up the more you feed).

It's ok if you can't get above 50% in protein--there are very few non-fish foods that do. My selection guidelines when Bandit was on insulin was 40% or above for protein, and 7% or less for carbs.

Another really good mid-grade food (in between the Friskie's/Special Kitty/Sophistacat quality and the Wellness/Merricks/EVO quality) is Fancy Feast. Here's a list of the ones that are good for diabetics: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
 
thanks for the responses, but now i'm confused. i thought i was making good choices. and i didnt. what if i continue to make the wrong choices?


i did get all my choices from the list and tried to keep it under 10 for the carbs.

but once you take out the fish and gravy...there isnt much left for him to eat, whether it is friskies or not. i didnt see the friskies pate on the list, but will look for it when i go to the store tonight.

everything else on the list seemed to be high in carbs.

am i reading it wrong and/or just not understanding how to read it? which is very well possible.
 
There are a lot of Fancy Feast flavors that aren't fish or gravy. Because Ruby seems partial to FF over any other brand, this is the list I use. There are several kinds of beef, chicken and turkey on it. The Chopped Grill is the favorite of both her and our non-diabetic kitty. I tried a fish flavor once and she wanted nothing to do with it (which I was totally fine with. That stuff stinks like crazy). The Beef, Beef & Liver, Chopped Grill and Turkey & Giblets are on the menu at our house. Pretty much, if you look for the "Classic" on the FF label, I think you're good to go.

http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
 
It took me some time staring at that thing at first to figure it out, so don't feel bad!

I feel like I am the one confusing you--you had asked what the absolute best cat food to feed was regardless of cost, so I mentioned Merrick's and explained why with the higher protein content. Most commercial foods do not have protein that high. I like to pick foods above 40% protein, and below 7% carbs but they are very few and far between and it takes some studying and knowing what flavor names are pates--something that took me a while to do. It's definitely ok if you feed something in the 30% range for protein. I was speaking in terms of an ideal diet, not a practical one.

For right now, just look for something under 7% carbs if you're getting a grocery brand. And if you're having trouble choosing between flavors, look to the one with higher protein. I was just trying to point out that some premium foods like Wellness and EVO can have lower protein values, so you want to keep that in mind.

To make things simple, I would go with the Fancy Feast list I gave you, and try a few different flavors. You can find them anywhere and there's lots of selection. Any Fancy Feast with "classic" on the label is ok to feed. Or pick another brand name--like Merricks, Wellness, or Friskies (depending on your budget) and try out the lower carb flavors.

I'm sorry I confused you--I thought you wanted an ultimate breakdown, but I think you were just looking for food suggestions!
 
Here's a list of the good Sophistacat/Friskies/Special Kitty flavors from the list. They'll say "pate" on the can when you're looking at it.

Turkey & Giblets
Salmon*
Beef & chicken
Beef
Chopped Grill (Called Mixed Grill for Friskie's and Special Kitty)
Fish & Shrimp*
Chicken
Liver & chicken
Ocean whitefish & Tuna*

*Remember to feed fishy foods sparingly.

Friskies Special Diet Pates are also low in carbs and ok to feed.
 
A couple other Friskies pate flavors that work fine for a diabetic and are a big hit at my house when I can find them are:

Country Style Dinner
Poultry Platter

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
to julia/bandit - you didnt confuse me, i'm just confused in general and feel overwhelmed and overloaded.
i DO want the best for simba. i cant find the merrick though. i went to 5 pet stores. i found 1 store that had merrick, but not the cowboy or surf n turk. all the other stuff
didnt seem good according to the list.

so i needed a backup...which is why i had the list.

im gonna call and go to more stores tomorrow in hopes of finding the 2 merricks i need.
 
wsugold said:
to julia/bandit - you didnt confuse me, i'm just confused in general and feel overwhelmed and overloaded.
i DO want the best for simba. i cant find the merrick though. i went to 5 pet stores. i found 1 store that had merrick, but not the cowboy or surf n turk. all the other stuff
didnt seem good according to the list.

so i needed a backup...which is why i had the list.

im gonna call and go to more stores tomorrow in hopes of finding the 2 merricks i need.
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Merricks has a store locator on their web site: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/locator/

I would check it out, and then call the stores to see what they have (some places only have dog food). PetCo carries it for sure, and you can also order it online from Petfooddirect. If you can find a local feed store that carries it though, it's usually cheaper that way. And they are also usually willing to order things for you as long as you get a case at a time. I would get a small can from somewhere to try out before you do something like that--you don't want to order a whole case of food and find out the cat doesn't like it!

And remember to breathe! We all went through the information overload at first, so I know how frustrating it is--there's the diet change, learning when and how to home test, finding the right kind of insulin and figuring out how often to feed and how to give shots. Take a deep breath, and remember to take one thing at a time :-) Believe me when I say that once you get over your learning curve it DOES get easy--hang in there!

I actually didn't do diet research until quite some time after I began Bandit's treatment--I was so overwhelmed learning everything else I just picked up the diabetic safe flavors of Fancy Feast and figured I'd do more research on food later on after I had the insulin situation figured out. So don't go killing yourself over food right now--pick up something that's easy for you to get and is low carb and sort the rest out later.
 
i finally found the 2 merrick foods, the surf n turf and cowboy! i wasnt sure which size can to buy. i bought the smaller one b/c i don't know if he will even eat this stuff. but if he does...is the small can ok or should i go and buy the big cans? also do i give one can in the morning and 1 at night?
i've never done canned food b/f so i'm clueless on how to feed him this way
 
Whether you buy the small can or the large can would probably depend on how much he will eat at mealtime. If you have a plastic lid that fits the cans, and you can keep it pretty fresh over the course of a day, then it would probably be more economical to buy the large cans. Assuming he likes the food, of course.

A diabetic human is encouraged to eat frequent small meals throughout the day rather than the traditional breakfast, lunch and dinner meals. Same thing works for diabetic cats. You would try to space the food intake more evenly during the day rather than overload the system with just two meals a day. A lot depends on the specific cat. Most cats who have been on a dry food diet are just free fed by keeping food in the bowl all day, so that is what they become used to. That doesn't work really well with canned food, but there are ways to do that.

Some people use timed feeders that dispense food on a schedule. This works well for people who aren't home all day, or who like to sleep at night :smile: Some people freeze food and drop a frozen meal in the bowl on the way out the door which kitty will eat as it thaws out.
You can feed two "main" meals and then feed smaller portion "snacks" in between the main feedings.
Is your cat a "grazer" or a "hoover"? Dose he eat a bit, walk away, then come back for more, or does he wolf down food in just a few minutes and empty the bowl?

Regarding how much to feed. Again, every cat is different, but in general a cat needs 20-30 calories a day per pound of "ideal" body weight in order to maintain that weight. Diabetic cats need more than that, because they don't metabolize food as efficiently as a non-diabetic would. Binky's food charts come in handy with the calorie intake, as there is a column stating how many calories are contained in one can of food for each brand and flavor.

Hope that doesn't confuse things further!
Carl
 
mocha eats wal marts brand special kitty .. she eats their 5.5oz cans (.43 each) of turkey and giblets .. We add just a bit of extra water to it (because water is good for them, plus she's missing a few teeth :oops: ) She comes running for it each and every time!
 
I buy the 5.5 oz cans because they are more economical, but it's a good idea to get the small cans first and try the food out to make sure your cat will eat it. As Carl mentioned, you can pick up can covers at the pet store and it keeps the food nice and fresh in the fridge. Because Merricks is pretty mushy, I refrigerate the cans of food before opening to make it easier to portion, and heat the food up for a few seconds in the microwave to room temperature before Bandit wolfs it down.

How much you feed depends on your cat's ideal weight. You mention he's 16 lbs now--is that what your vet said he's supposed to weigh?

Uncontrolled diabetic cats are literally starving, so they need more food than a regulated cat or a cat in remission. When Bandit was uncontrolled I fed 9oz (about 1 1/2 5.5 oz cans) of food a day--and his ideal weight is 12-13lbs. Now that he's in remission, he needs 7.5oz of the same food (about 1 1/4 5.5 oz cans). If your cat's ideal weight is more than that, you would want to feed a little more.

Have you purchased a human glucometer yet? Walmart has some good ones that are very inexpensive--the Relion Confirm and the Relion Micro that many people here use. Learning to home test is very important--numbers at the vet are inflated due to stress so they don't give you an accurate picture of how high your cat's blood sugar really is. If your cat truly does become diet controlled (and you'll know if he does in just a few days by home testing), his blood sugar may still be high at the vet and they may start him on insulin even if it's not need. A few lucky cats do become controlled from diet change alone. However, most cats do need insulin for a short period of time to reach remission. The insulin gives their pancreas a rest and allows it to heal. Slow acting insulins like Lantus and Levemir work the best with cats' faster metabolisms--they are safer and allow for better blood glucose control. Prozinc is also a decent insulin--the two "L" insulins have a higher remission rate, but many cats also do very well on Prozinc. Do not let your vet give you a prescription for Humulin N. It works well in dogs, but does not work well at all in cats.

Urine testing glucose is better than nothing, but it's giving you an average blood glucose level from the last 5-8 hrs rather than telling you what his blood glucose is now. Also, urine strips cannot detect low blood glucose, so you definitely want to switch to blood testing if/when you start insulin.

I would start insulin therapy as soon as possible if it's needed. The sooner you start, the better and sooner are your cat's chances to become diet controlled.
 
hi everyone

bare w/me as i'm trying to remember and answer the prior comments, so hopefully i don't sound too scatter brained.

ok, the vet said he should be 12 lbs. which is small i think b/c he was 19lbs b/f.

however, i called the vet today to make sure she was ok w/me switching the food to canned and merricks. she just c/b a few min ago and was very pissy on the phone and didnt know what merricks was and didnt understand my thought process on it.
though she knew of this website and i told her that is where i got the merricks from. she said ok, if its from this website it should be ok. regardless i didnt like her attitude and she has not been good w/expl;aining things like you all have. i have learned 10x more from you all than her and that is part of my frustration. i dont want my cat to suffer due to my not being made aware of things.

ok, now to answer some of the other questions now that i had a chance to vent lol.

i have not bought a glucometer yet. she didnt say to or even mention it. though i have seen it mentioned on here, i didnt know if i should b/c he wasnt on insulin yet.

also she said a cat should have approx 250 calories a day. is that right? she said that when i was trying to ask her how much food to give him w/the canned.

i don't mind getting the meter, but how often do i check etc?

i did see the keto stick urine strips at target, but that is the one the pharmacist said not to use.

do i need to know the ketones? the vet never mentioned it so i wasn't sure.

i am going to try and find a new vet...i just hate to start over at this critical point. but do you think i should? i think so but don't know if i would be risking simba's health more by staying or leaving. the dr i take him to is accredited by some national thing, i just forget what lol. i have it at home though.

thank you all again!
michelle
 
however, i called the vet today to make sure she was ok w/me switching the food to canned and merricks. she just c/b a few min ago and was very pissy on the phone and didnt know what merricks was and didnt understand my thought process on it. though she knew of this website and i told her that is where i got the merricks from. she said ok, if its from this website it should be ok. regardless i didnt like her attitude and she has not been good w/expl;aining things like you all have. i have learned 10x more from you all than her and that is part of my frustration. i dont want my cat to suffer due to my not being made aware of things.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that you aren't getting good feedback from the vet. Encouraging (I think) that she is at least familiar with this site though. To be fair to her, I have found vets to be the hardest people to actually get on the phone. I think they try to fit 24 hours worth of work into a 12 hour day in many cases, and it's really hard to get in touch when you need to, and it always seems that when they have time, you don't or you aren't near the phone. I hate playing phone tag! I was very fortunate in that my vet gave me her cell phone number, and gave me license to call her 24/7, but that seems to be the exception to the rule.
also she said a cat should have approx 250 calories a day. is that right? she said that when i was trying to ask her how much food to give him w/the canned.
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If she has determined that the cat should weigh 12 pounds, then that amount would be about right for a healthy non-diabetic cat. But not for a diabetic cat that doesn't weigh 12 pounds. A diabetic cat will usually require more food than normal. A 15 pound ideal weight cat would require more than 250 calories. You can't just say "every cat should require X amount of calories and more than you can say that a 120 pound adult and a 250 pound adult require the same amount of calories to maintain that weight.
i don't mind getting the meter, but how often do i check etc?
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If a cat is on insulin, then you would want at least 3 tests per day. Once each 12 hours at shot time, and once in between the two shots (about 6 hours after the AM shot).
If not on insulin, then you could still check 3 or 4 times a day. You would want to check on an empty tummy just before breakfast for instance. Then 1 or 2 hours later, which would tell you how much the food pushed up the BG. And a couple hours later, you could test to see if the kitty is producing insulin naturally, which would be indicated by a lower BG number.

Either way, a meter will give you very useful information, and if you are going to be using insulin, it is the safest way to manage diabetes. You need to know what the BG is before giving insulin to make sure it is safe, and what it is when the insulin is at peak effectiveness so you know that the dose amount is right.

If you can work with this vet, I think that's your better option. It is hard to find a new one, and hard for them to "catch up" on a case. But if you don't feel like you and your current vet can work together on this, another vet may be your only choice. Many times, people stick it out and end up learning a lot and getting the vet to learn right along with them. In the long run, that's the best solution, because it will help any patients they might get in the future. Sometimes, though, that isn't a possibility.

If you home-test, and Simba starts to improve and becomes regulated, you won't really need to see the vet except for routine checkups or if something else besides diabetes becomes an issue.
Carl
 
wsugold said:
also she said a cat should have approx 250 calories a day. is that right? she said that when i was trying to ask her how much food to give him w/the canned.
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A healthy cat weighing 12 lbs should have about 233 calories a day. Because Simba is an uncontrolled diabetic, 250 may not be enough.

http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity#How_Much_Do_I_Feed

wsugold said:
i don't mind getting the meter, but how often do i check etc?
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If you are just measuring the effects of the diet change before you start insulin, twice a day would be sufficient to test, although you may want to do a curve (1 test every 2hrs for 12 hours) to get a good idea of whether or not his pancreas may be working. If he's above the renal threshold (which is 180-240 for cats), you will want to start insulin.

With Lantus and Levemir, you want to test at least 3 times a day, but more if you can manage it. You test before each shot to make sure it's safe to give insulin, and once about halfway through one of the cycles to see how low he is dropping. You want to do a curve about once a week. That's the minimum you can test and still follow the dosing protocol that has the 84% remission rate for cats. It seems like a lot, but it's really not. Home testing is only hard for about the first week, if at all. If you give your cat a low carb treat after each test, they are absolutely fine with it, and once you get the hang of it it only takes a minute or so to do each test.

wsugold said:
i did see the keto stick urine strips at target, but that is the one the pharmacist said not to use.

do i need to know the ketones? the vet never mentioned it so i wasn't sure.
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If your cat is above the renal threshold (which he is at 438), it's very important to test for ketones. Diabetic Ketoacidosis is a life threatening condition that occurs as the result of extended high blood glucose. Theketostix that you can buy at the pharmacy are what you need.

wsugold said:
i just hate to start over at this critical point. but do you think i should?
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This is a personal decision that you have to make. Most vets unfortunately do not recommend the right treatment for cats (low carb canned diet, dose adjustments via home testing, slow acting insulin). It's very hard to find a good vet that gets everything right--so many people stay with their vets as long as they are willing to learn and supportive of them pursuing the correct treatment with them. Some people live in rural areas and don't have the option of switching, so they use their vet for the insulin prescription alone and get dosing advice and learn how to dose correctly here. As with people, diabetes is best treated with the owner learning the dosing guidelines and making daily adjustments themselves, with occasional input from the vet (if they know what they are doing) or the experienced users here.

The fact that your vet made you feel bad about going against her (wrong) advice on diest and did not speak to you about home monitoring would make me leave that vet. However, I have a very good selection of vets in my town that I would feel confident taking Bandit to. Vets may not be able to know everything, but when they are brought new information that illustrates a better course of treatment, they should be supportive of you. This is a great document to print and give to vets to give them an idea of what kind of treatment you want to pursue: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. I've also attached the study that contains the 84% remission rate in newly diagnosed cats that I cited earlier. I'm not giving you this stuff to overload you on information even more--just to give to your vet to support your decisions.

If you post your city and state, there may be members here that live close by that can recommend a vet that is current in feline diabetes treatment.
 

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Hi there, and welcome! My Junior was diagnosed on the 12th so i'm not too far ahead of you. I've been fortunate so far to have a cool vet that liked my idea of changing the diet before starting insulin. Junior started out at 475 and today, 7 days later is at 213. I did exactly the same for picking new food, almost exactly the same variety as you but stuck with pate all the way around. I've already noticed a change in his behavior.

I'm doing the testing at home, bought everything for $40.00 at walmart. It's sooooo much easier than I imagined. I'm waiting to hear back from the vet now, Junior is supposed to go in tomorrow for insulin advice and I want to give him another week with how well its going with the diet.

Anyone out there think that is a bad decision, i'd like to know!

I've found self confidence and self education has given me a completely new outlook on all of this.
 
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