Not sure if he is going into remission

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Pico

Pico

Member Since 2014
Hi,

I just found this board. I have an 11 year old cat that has been diabetic for 1 1/2 years. He is on lantis. He is eating Wellness grain free. I am now switching to DM wet. He became hypoglycemic two weeks ago. At that time he was 1 1/2 units BID. He went down to 32. He spent a few days at the vet and is fine. Thank godness I was at home. So since then I have been testing him daily. I can't seem to get the right dose. He was at 0 under 200, .50 units at 200-250 and 1 unit at 250>. Since being home he hasn't needed 1 unit and most days no units at all.The vet thinks he could be going into remission. If he was around 150 and gave .50 untis he would go to 50-70 and then up to low 100's. Can he be ok or going into remission if he stays in the mid 100's? Or is that too high? I am not home everyday to test him throughout the day. I test him in the AM and PM and I am getting varying readings between 140-200. I was told that the food can also lessen the need for insulin. I am afraid to give him insulin if I can't be there all day yet I don't want to be doing him harm.

I guess I am just wanted to know if 150-200 is safe without insulin. Does anyone have any experience with this? Or know what is a "normal" range for a diabetic cat is?

Thank you,
 
We generally tell new diabetics not to shoot under 200, until you have enough data to show you how he might react. We consider a cat generally well regulated if they are in the mid 200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir (the lowest point in the cycle) but not under 4-, which is hypo territory. We consider a cat in remission if they range from 40 -120, off insulin, with the majority of the time in double digits.

What insulin are you using? (Dosing is different) You might get some nadir numbers on (generally 5-7 hours after the shot) to see how low the insulin is taking him. Maybe you could do that on the weekend?
 
You could probably do better than Purina DM, it contains corn, soy, and wheat. Try some of the Fancy Feast, Friskies or Wellness pates, that might help push him lower and closer to remission. Be aware that lower carb food equals lower insulin needs so be careful when switching food.
 
Hi is on Lantis. He has been on this since he was first diagnosed. He has been all over the place the past two weeks. Most days between 150-210. When I have given him .50 units when he was postshot under 200 he went down to between 66-80 and then up to around 130. I have been a mess because I don't want him to go too low or too high. The past 5 days the AM reading preshot have been between 150-185. Yesterday he was 205. That is the only 200 reading in a little over a week. Is it ok to give insulin every other day or every third day?

Thanks for your help. I really am a mess. I still can't get the day he went into diabetic shock out of my head.
 
He has been on Wellness grainfree for a few years. I do hate that Purina DM has low quality ingredients. Wellness is better quality and no grains at all.
 
It does sound like he wants to go into remission; he just needs a little extra help. ;-) With Lantus, it works best with consistency, meaning the same dose, twice a day, 12 hours apart. If at any time you get a BG test below 50, that means an automatic dose reduction. Since you've been getting such wide swings and having to skip shots when trying to give .5u to 1u, my suggestion would be to try to maintain .25u twice a day for a few days.

Would you be able to share your test results with us? We have this spreadsheet that we use for recording BGs and sharing. It will help us get a better picture of what is going on.
 
I will check out the spreadsheet. I have been so afraid to give him insulin when it is mid 100's. At the same time I feel like skipping days could hurt him to. I will fill out the spreadsheet. It is great his numbers are low but it is still very nerve wracking. I am not sure if switching to DM will help or hurt. confused_cat

thanks again!!!
 
I think I added the spreadsheet. I am not able to test him everyday throughout the day. My vet said to not give insulin under 200.That is why there were so many days he didnt' get it. He went into diabetic shock on 1/5. I will get his records and update.

Thanks!!!
 
Yep! I'm able to see the spreadsheet. :thumbup

200 is the general "no shot" rule of thumb on the Main Health Board, so that's good that you skipped. After you've tested a bit and seen how he reacts to the Lantus, that number generally drops to 150. In your case, he's not going over 200 for the most part, however, he's still running a little higher than is healthy. When is his next shot due and what meter are you using? ? If you're going to be around to monitor, I might suggest giving him .25u if he's over 150.
 
He is a little high since normal cats run 40-130 (human meter). 0.25 might be a better dose for him.. and pick up some slack to help his pancreas heal.

Wendy
 
Hi,

I tested him this morning and he was 235 so I gave him .50 units. Last night he was under 200 but now I forget what it was. I left my paper at home. He isn't in remission that is for sure. I guess that I have to continue to test before I give him his shot until I see where he is going. He is great with testing but I feel like testing him so much has got to be hurthing his ears. I am using the alphatrac meter which is for pets. I was so hoping he would be in remission.

Do most people test everyday? Has anyone had the experience of their cat all of sudden being so erratic in the readings? Any advise is greatly appreciated.
 
We strongly suggest that you test before each shot and at least at midcycle to see how low the insulin takes him (so you know how the dose worked). Yes, their numbers are often irractic as they head into remission. Their pancreas may be working some of the time and it will help the numbers go downward. When it "rests", the numbers can be higher. This time does require more testing, to help them into remission while keeping them safe. But hopefully it is a short time frame.
 
Thank you. That is very helpful. It helps to know that it can get erratic like this. I started him on the DM which is supposed to help too. The Wellness grain free is much better quality, but the vet swears by this. They have seen cats go into remission just eating this food. Unfortunately I can't test mid cycle during the week. I can do this on the weekend. I will test twice a day and get mid readings this weekend. I will update my spreadsheet daily. I am so grateful to have found this board. Everyone is so helpful. It is great to have found this community.

Side question how do you get a picture to show up with your name? I wanted to attach a picture of him.
 
Pico said:
I started him on the DM which is supposed to help too. The Wellness grain free is much better quality, but the vet swears by this. They have seen cats go into remission just eating this food.
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They go into remission because the food is low carb, not necessarily because the food is any better than the Wellness.

Pico said:
Side question how do you get a picture to show up with your name? I wanted to attach a picture of him.
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Here's how to get an avatar.
 
The quality of ingrediants isn't great. The vet swears that the formulation is good for diabetics and it keeps the sugar from spiking which commercial foods can do. Tough decision to make.
 
Do most people feed the prescription diets or the grain free commercial diets like Wellness? Does anyone have experience with Purina DM? Thanks for the directions on downloading the picture.
 
Pico said:
Do most people feed the prescription diets or the grain free commercial diets like Wellness? Does anyone have experience with Purina DM? Thanks for the directions on downloading the picture.
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I found that the prescription diets didn't work for Nikki. She was on a variety of limited ingredient dry and wet diets before becoming diabetic. I gradually transitioned her from Hill's z/d to lower carb foods and she went into remission about 2 months later. She does tend to run on the low side now, so I give her higher low carb food (about 8% I think, based on Dr Lisa's list). Both of my cats eat Wellness Turkey pate, Weruva's Fowl Ball, and Nikki also likes Addiction's Turkey, Cranberries, and Apples.

Nikki used to be an incredible water drinker while on dry food and now that they eat exclusively wet, neither touches their water bowl. I prefer not to feed food with "by-products" but that's a personal choice. :smile:
 
I adopted him a few years ago. He was eating a variety of different foods. He has been on Wellness since. He had a tumor removed two years in July. That is how we found out he was diabetic. I def would rather give food without by products...but if it helps his diabetes then I am not sure. Wellness is low carb, grain free, and has better quality ingrediants.
 
What a cute picture! Is he all black or a Tuxedo?

Most people here feed OTC foods like Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies Pates, and the Wellness Grain Free. The "prescription" stuff is too expensive with no additional benefits than regular low carb food. If you take a look a the food chart from catinfo.org, pretty much any food that is less than 8-10% calories from carbs (Column C) will work. From there, it's a matter of narrowing down what ingredients you want and what your cat will eat. :lol: It took me about 6 months before I found a food that worked for both of my kitties (Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets). Since you've already been feeding the Wellness, I don't think the transition will take that long for you. ;-)
 
Keep in mind that grain free does NOT mean carb free.

Potatoes, peas, beans, lentils, other root vegetables, and fruit are sources of carbohydrate ... and not something an obligate carnivore needs to eat.
 
Lantus dosing is based on the low point or nadir in the cycle, not your pre-shot numbers.

Consistency of dosing is also important, since Lantus is a depot type insulin.

By varying the insulin dose with every pre-shot, you are letting that depot drain or refill, which means the BG (blood glucose) levels will be all over the point.

You might want to go over to the Lantus TR forum and read the stickies at the top of the posts.
 
Hi,

He was 238 this AM. Def not in remission. I hope that everything is ok. The DM food hasn't had any effect yet so I think I will go back to Wellness. Although I have to check to see if there are carbs that aren't grains in it. Pico is an all black cat. He is so good with his testing and shots! He is the sweetest boy!!! I am blessed. I am blessed with all my furbabies.
 
I guess I am just wanted to know if 150-200 is safe without insulin. Does anyone have any experience with this? Or know what is a "normal" range for a diabetic cat is?
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Bg's of 150-200, even on an Alpahtrak pet meter like you are using, are higher numbers than we like to see.

If this were my cat, I'd take that 0.5U dose you are giving and split it between AM and PM. That way, Pico always has some insulin working away the full 24 hours instead of being without any insulin for half the day because of skipped shots. Would you be willing to try that for a bit?

Would you please add some more information to your signature? User control panel, Profile tab, edit signature. We like to see your first name, cat's name, insulin used, meter used, food fed, any complicating health conditions like DKA or steroid use or CRF, etc.

So, something like this would be helpful to us. It's especially important that we know the BG numbers you give us are for the Alpahtrak, which reads higher than human meters. That is why the font size should be larger on that Alpahtrak text.

your first name and sweetboy Pico age 11
dx date 7/xx/2012
Lantus and Alphatrak
Wellness. some Purina DM
 
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