Not hydrating enough?

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Shadow McFatto

Shadow McFatto

Member Since 2015
Hi all! Shadow went in and got subq LR today. We are on day 7 of prozinc. Initially he was staying in the 150-200 range predose but now is up in the 300s. When he came home from the vet on Tuesday he was acting like his old self. Jumping on bed, harassing me in the morning. But that only lasted about 2 days. This morning his appetite was diminished and I found him sleeping in his "not feeling well" spot. BG +6 was 54 relion so she gave him a little nutrical and 200cc LR. Having trouble finding a balance.
 
Have you got some high carb food like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers in the house? If you do, pop the top and then "squeeze" the gravy part into a bowl and give him a couple teaspoons of the gravy (that's where the carbs are)

If you don't, then yes, a little Nutrical will help to get him above 50 but you want to continue testing every 30 minutes for at least the next hour to make sure he stays above 50
 
The 300 you saw tonight is probably what we call a "bounce"......there are several reasons for bouncing

1. The cat dropping into a low number (below 50 usually)
2. The cat dropping too quickly....like from 400-250 in 2 hours
3. The cat dropping into numbers it's body just isn't used to being at (or a mix of all 3 reasons)

Since it looks like Shadow is new to insulin, his body isn't used to being into numbers like that 59 today so his liver released stored sugars and hormones to bring him back up quickly...he "bounced"....as he gets into normal numbers more and more, his body should re-learn that it's OK to be in those good numbers and his bouncing should get less pronounced.

Any time you get a number that's dropping that much (especially when you don't have much data on how your cat responds to insulin) it's important to keep testing....it's possible he dropped even lower later in the cycle....we want to keep Shadow safe!!
 
Thank you. I didn't give him nutrical but I did get him to eat a little canned food. I thought that otherwise he could drop even lower since we were only 3.5 hrs post shot. I don't know his low point time but I'm afraid to find out.
 
I hope Shadow is doing better now! Sorry to hear you're having problems.

Does you vet say why, in her opinion, he is dehydrated?

Just as a heads-up, the Pro Plan DM dry is very high in carbohydrates (something like 30-31%), not at all good for a diabetic kitty, and dry food in and of itself is not good, ever, because it contains so little moisture. Our house cats only get about 25% of their water from drinking; they depend mostly on the moisture in their food for hydration. In the wild, this system works very well, but not so much for our kitties at home, hence the need for canned or wet food.

Diabetic cats need a diet that is only 10% (or less) carbohydrates. This article has a great list you can go to, it contains a lot of the more popular cat foods on the market, from all price ranges, and it lists the percentage of calories from carbs: www.catinfo.org The article is very informative on all aspects of nutrition, and well worth a read. But one quick warning; if you change your food to a lower carb diet you must do so gradually and monitor BG levels very closely! Switching to low carb will cause blood glucose to drop quite a bit and it's likely kitty will need a dose reduction; for example, my Squallie dropped enough that he went from needing 7 units of insulin down to 2 units.

I hope maybe this is of some help to you! :):):)
 
Thank you Lucy! Since he has started acting funny and looking dry I switched to all canned Purina DM. Is the canned high too? Adding a little water to it too. His sugar was back up to 340 again this morning. I just backed off the insulin from 2 to 1.5 to see if it is the bounce affect people are talking about.
 
Very good thinking, and always best to err on the side of caution. The saying around here is"...better high for a day than too low for a moment"! It would probably be a good idea to monitor his BG closely today, without the high carb food it may drop lower than usual and you definitely want to avoid a hypo!

The canned DM is okay, carb-wise, just really pricey, and a lot of people say their cats get bored and stop eating it after a few weeks. I didn't have that problem, Squallie loved it, but it was too rich for my budget since I have to have a food that all four of my guys can eat.

A lot of people here seem to lean towards Fancy Feast Classic patés, certain flavors of Friskies or 9 Lives, just regular old cat food that is also low in carbs. Stay away from the foods with gravy, they are almost always going to be too high in carbs (although it's good to have a can or two in your hypo toolbox!) I feed 9 Lives Meaty Paté Chicken or Turkey & Giblets mixed with Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Chicken (the frozen raw is a little pricey but worth it in my opinion, it seems to satisfy them better and stay with them longer). But any food that is under 10% carbs is good! (And I always add a little water!)

If you haven't already read them, here is some excellent information on hypos and how to handle them:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

What did your vet say was the reason for his dehydration?

By the way, Shadow and his buddy behind him are gorgeous kitties! :)
 
Hi There, I just peaked at Shadow's SS and saw that @ +2 he had dropped to 106 from a 340 AMPS. That is a fast big drop (more than 50%) so it would be advisable if you could monitor frequently as Lucy suggested to make sure Shadow doesn't go below 50 especially since you ditched the higher carb food. You are doing a great job! :)
 
Just tested him again and he was 44! I switched up to fancy feast classic salmon and he is eating now. I think this is why he was going downhill last few days. Too much insulin! Then the bounce. He just always feels bad so doesn't eat or drink.
@Squalliesmom thanks, Shadow is actually the Ragdoll at the back. Our ginger pound kitty is Sunny. He doesn't eat much and stays nice and slim. He's super long though like a weinercat, lol. We also have a rescued feral kitten named Luna who had to be bottle fed for the first two weeks. She's a little piglet and goes after any food left out.
I will check bg again in an hour. I wonder how the glycemic index compares in these low carb foods. It almost seems like we need some carbs but low glycemic index so they hit the blood more slowly.
 
If he's down to 44 please test him again in 30 mins to make sure his BG is rising, and not still dropping. You might try to give him a little Karo syrup or honey, if you have some, this will help (temporarily) bring his BG up. But please don't wait an hour before retesting him!
 
Do you have any gravy style Fancy Feast which would be more of a medium carb. I am not familiar with nutrical. Do you know the carb count of it?
 
My name is Shannon. I'm only calm because I realize he must have been dipping this low all last week when I was at work and she was having me give 2 in the morning. He is also with me instead of trying to get to his sick spot.
 
The FF Classic Salmon is only 1% carbs. If he is still dropping, or below 50, you need to get something high carb into him to help raise his BG to a safe level; gravy from a gravy-style food is best (or Nutrical?), Karo or honey is good but temporary, sometimes some high carb treats will help.

Is the 42 on his SS the latest test?
 
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Up to 77 now. Have to run to the store. I will continue when I get back. I think he is headed the right direction.
 
Sounds like he's going to keep rising, but get in one more test just to make sure.

Beautiful Shadow, and I guess that is Luna in the background? I have to chuckle, I see so many things that are so familiar in my own home; the Relion meter, the FF cans, I even have the same cat tree, lol! :)
 
Whew! What a day! Yep, it's time for a dose reduction. I'm thinking maybe 1 or .5 units. It'll depend some on what we're seeing for a PMPS..though it may be high what with the steering you had to do so far. Really, a .5 may be best...looking at your SS that 1.5 dropped him pretty low and fast.

Why don't you post in our ProZinc forum tonight before you shoot? We can see where he is at then and try to help you figure out a good dose. :)
 
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