Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatitis)

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Melissa and Celle

Melissa and Celle

Member Since 2011
I'm feeling pretty down about Celle in spite of seeing better numbers than we have in a long time.

For pancreatitis, our vet wanted me to put Celle on metronidazole and had it formulated into chews. She ate only two doses and now refuses. She's so hard to pill though that I'm not sure I want to even try regular pills since the benefit for pancreatitis seems limited.

Our vet also wanted to switch her to Hills W/D, which I tried reluctantly, but Celle doesn't like it as well and I worry about her eating enough, so I've only switched over half the food at this point.

And the third strike out is that we're supposed to take her in for a sterile urine sample to culture and make sure there are no bacteria, and if there are what antibiotic would be best. The samples I took in had just trace bacteria, but still a lot of blood after 5 weeks of Baytril. Well, she either empties her bladder on the way to the vet or she doesn't have enough urine to draw. I really hate to leave here there for 10 hours while I'm at work just so she can produce some urine. I'm not sure she'd drink anything there anyway.

And we're on 6 units now, which is just kind of upsetting for some reason. I keep expecting her insulin needs to plummet and throw us into crisis. I'm not sure what I'm doing either. She's all over the map and I don't know how to dose. At the point when a reduction is earned, how much would I decrease given how high the dose is? Was last night cause for a decrease?

All in all she seems to be doing fine. She doesn't have any obvious symptoms of sickness, but the blood in the urine must be a sign of some pain, not to mention the pancreatitis, which I don't even have a plan to treat now, having failed in implementing the only two recommendations my vet gave me. I just feel kind of defeated by everything.

I'm also curious what people think of her numbers lately. I can't really see increasing any further based on the numbers she has right now, but is this good enough? I'm not even sure what good enough is supposed to mean for a cat with chronic pancreatitis and long-standing uncontrolled diabetes. :YMSIGH:
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad

Hi Melissa,

Don't be discouraged. Celle has had a rough time lately between the UTI and Pancreatitis. I think she's doing pretty well all things considered. She has a lot of bluetes and even greens! Her dose is high but with pancreatitis I understand that is part of the treatment. I have never dealt with it myself. I think you should add pancreatitis to your subject line so you get the right eyes on your post.

I can tell you that as a longterm diabetic, Celle would have to get either under 50 or 50's on 3 seperate occasions near each other to earn a reduction. It would help you tremendously to reread the protocol on how to deal with low numbers (sticky) and make you much more confident. When giving a large dose, you have a choice of reducing by .25u or .5u. Most of us use .25u so as not to miss the perfect dose.

I would not change to dry food. The carbs are much too high in that special diet and a lot of the other people dealing with pancreatitis use wet food. It really would be good for you to talk to them. The blood is from the irritation from the pancreatitis or UTI. Are you giving fluids?? That's one of the important things to do. Please change your subject so you can get some better advice.

Hang in there.

Hugs,
Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad

melissa, i agree with melanie, her numbers don't look too bad. having a cat with acromegaly, i remind myself regularly that the important numbers are the blood glucose, not the size of the dose. it's pretty irrelevant. you want to give what they need. the key thing is that if an antibiotic kicks in and the infection begins to clear, her insulin needs may change fairly quickly.

with a yellow amps and a yellow pmps, she may have had a fairly nice cycle today. i don't think i'd worry too much about the numbers at this point.

have you seen this post by jojo on chronic pancreatitis? there is some good information in there.

hang in there. you sound tired and discouraged. sending you lots of encouragement and virtual support!
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad

I'm sorry you're feeling so discouraged. I agree that you should take a look at Jojo's post on pancreatitis. Antibiotics may not be necessary for treating p'titis. Did the vet give you any pain meds for Celle? As far as the W/D, a special diet for p'titis is unnecessary for cats. (It's more of an issue with dogs.)

I do think Celle is bouncing a bit. I also suspect that you may see better results if you hold your doses for 3 days vs. 5 days. I don't think Celle is quite "all over the map." As far as dosing, just stick with the TR protocol. If there's an infection, it's best to raise the insulin dose. Once the infection clears, the numbers will show you that.
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatiti

Thanks for the encouragement. That's what I need right now.

MelanieAndRacci said:
I would not change to dry food. The carbs are much too high in that special diet and a lot of the other people dealing with pancreatitis use wet food. It really would be good for you to talk to them. The blood is from the irritation from the pancreatitis or UTI. Are you giving fluids?? That's one of the important things to do. Please change your subject so you can get some better advice.
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The W/D is wet food, but it is high in carbs in spite of being labeled for diabetics. Mostly I just tried it because I feel like I need to do something, and that I also should follow my vet's advice at least occasionally so that she'll stick with us.
We're not giving fluids. Our vet didn't suggest that, and we just went through a difficult spell trying to give another cat fluids not too successfully. Basically I'm just torn because I really don't want to do anything in many ways, at least not anything that's difficult for us or Celle since she seems truly fine and her numbers are pretty good.
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatiti

I think you should listen to your cat. Celle will tell you what is or isn't needed. (Well, maybe with the exception of giving HC yummy food. Most of our cats would be happy if we fed that all the time!)
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatiti

I would also join the dedicated pancreatitis group on Yahoo and learn all you can about pancreatitis and its treatment. Make sure to keep each board posted so everyone is on the same page. Pancreatitis can make a cat look and act extremely sick. They will also give you advice on assist feeding if you have any blip in appetite level. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Pancreatitis_Support/

The members here on FDMB have a lot of experience treating both pancreatitis and diabetes - you aren't alone.
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatiti

(((Melissa)))....if Celle isn't having an active case of CP right now, I'd let her call the shots on what she wants as Sienne said. If she has an episode, then I think it would be reasonable to talk to your vet about fluids, pain meds, possibly something for nausea and vomiting if she has those symptoms.

Here is additional info on pancreatitis: Treatment therapies for feline pancreatitis and Roundtable on Feline Pancreatitis

Here's a webinair discussion: Webinair on Feline Pancreatitis

Has Celle been ultrasounded? The reason I ask is because blood in the urine does not necessarily mean UTI.....it could mean kidney infection or it could mean bladder inflammation but not infection. I'm always a little leery of bacteria in a free catch urine sample....I understand the issue about getting her to the vet with a bladder big enough to get a cysto sample and I don't blame you about not leaving her....I have never left my cats either. If you know there is a particular time of day that she pees, you could get her to the vet before then and she would hopefully have a full bladder?

It's so hard for us to not worry about higher numbers, dose, other medical issues. But I know you are doing the best you can for her and it sounds like she is a happy girl. (((Melissa)))
 
Re: Not even sure if things are good or bad (new pancreatiti

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Has Celle been ultrasounded? The reason I ask is because blood in the urine does not necessarily mean UTI.....it could mean kidney infection or it could mean bladder inflammation but not infection. I'm always a little leery of bacteria in a free catch urine sample....I understand the issue about getting her to the vet with a bladder big enough to get a cysto sample and I don't blame you about not leaving her....I have never left my cats either. If you know there is a particular time of day that she pees, you could get her to the vet before then and she would hopefully have a full bladder?
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No ultrasound yet. We're working under the assumption that the blood in the urine now is not a UTI, but the vet wants to confirm with a sterile sample. If she has a full bladder, she empties it as soon as I put her in the carrier. I'm going to try Friday when I can do it mid-day, which will hopefully work.

Thanks everyone!!
 
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