Not eating...Jinglebells

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kkoka1

kkoka1

Member Since 2013
Hi,
Just have a question...
We just started Lantus (.5 once a day) on Friday. Jingles has been a voracious eater (have to feed every 3-4 hours even through the night). This am, we awoke to only 1/2 eaten meals in her 2 "pop-up" food bowls. We did a prick this am prior to giving food or insulin. It was 393 (remember, no insulin through the night--but this is nothing new for her). We opened a new can, and still she didn't eat it. We had to make a scrambled egg and put a tiny amount mixed in to get her to eat the food. Then it was no problem. Numbers on insulin are mostly in the yellow and blue. Early morning pre-insulin BG is usually in the 300's.

My questions are:
1. Is this common after starting insulin? Mind you, she was like a vacuum for the last 2 years 24hrs a day, so this worries us.
2. Is the insulin helping her to absorb the food now so she isn't quite so hungry?
3. Is she just recognizing that the reduced calorie Royal Cainin tastes like crud?

Thank you for any answers. Not sure what we'd do without you all.
 
Usually diabetic cats are still pretty hungry all the time so it sounds to me like she doesn't like the food. Especially if you can get her to eat it after adding scrambled eggs.
At least eggs are pure protein so that's good that it helps her eat.

I myself usually have 4-5 cans open in the fridge since mine won't eat from the same can two meals in a row. :o :lol: I have to rotate it all.


Just like us, they burn out on certain foods.....

I don't know if you are feeding royal canin ultra light..... if so, that one is 10% carbs.....that is still considered a low carb ( 10% or less) but you might look for something
a bit lower .... here's the list http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
 
Hi! it's typical for cats to be ravenous and lose weight when they become diabetic and until their blood sugar comes down. glucose is what nourishes the body, but when they are unregulated the glucose is floating in the bloodstream instead of getting into the cells. The cat is literally starving even though they are eating a lot.

As you get Jinglebells into better blood sugar numbers her appetite will get more normal. That may be what you are seeing. As long as she isn't losing weight and is eating some, I would just keep trying to get her to eat. If she stops eating or isn't eating much, that becomes more critical. cats can't go without eating or you can get serious problems.

Some ideas to tempt her to eat: sprinkle on parmesan cheese, oregano (relative of catnip), catnip, or tuna juice (but not in broth because it contains onions and garlic). heat up the canned food so it's smellier. rotisserie chicken is irresistible to many cats. make little balls of cat food (meat balls). Dust on some pulverized dry food, or fortiflora (available on Amazon) - those are pretty irresistible too. sometimes "priming the pump" by putting some food into her mouth works in cats. trying different varieties of food can help too. baby food that is only meat and broth is good for an iffy tummy.

if she's prone to vomiting after she eats, the pepcid that someone mentioned on your other post about 20 minutes before she eats may help. it also might help to only give a teaspoon or two of food every 1/2 hr and see if that stays down.

if she looks like she's going to completely stop eating, then you've got to get her eating no matter what it is, although no onions or garlic. even if it's high carb food or dry food. Her blood sugar takes second importance to keeping her eating.

I read through your story on a previous post and want to see if we can offer some help so that you don't find Jinglebells tanking on the Lantus. It's overall a gentler insulin than previous ones, but it doesn't mean a cat can't go low.

first - her ears. Have you tried putting Neosporin with pain relief ointment on them? The stuff works like a miracle to take the owie out. i used it on punkin's ears at the end of every day. if your trouble is the actual poke, you can put it on about 20 minutes before the blood test, then wipe it mostly off before you test. it's greasy a bit so it will keep the blood from absorbing into the skin and hair, which helps. but you don't want so much on that it goos up your strip.

using a rice sock (1/2 cup rice warmed in the microwave in a cotton sock) and holding it against her ear for 5 minutes or so before you poke will increase the blood flow so that you get blood more easily.

if you use a lancet device, use the clear cap and press it for about 5 seconds against the ear before you release the lancet, then keep holding it for 5 seconds more. that also helps the blood well up so you can get enough every time.

after you test, always, always, always give a treat. i gave punkin boiled chicken breast - just a 1/2" cube. I cooked & diced several breasts, then kept them in the freezer and brought out a couple of days worth at a time. some cats like freeze dried meat too.

For the first 3 days on Lantus, we suggest that you test every 3 hours to see what she's doing.

She sounds like she's been through a lot with her pancreas and anal glands - kudos to you for the great care you've given her!

To link your spreadsheet, go to the User Control Panel (in the top left of my screen), then click the tab on top that says "Profile" and then "Edit Signature."

That's where you click the URL button to get these brackets. Then to insert the spreadsheet address: [url=paste website address for spreadsheet here]and write something like Jinglebell's SS here[/url]

Because Lantus is a long-lasting insulin, individual numbers don't mean as much as numbers in context of the day and the previous 3 days or so. It sounds like you've got the spreadsheet working and just need to link it. That would help us help you to help Jinglebells!

Keep asking questions! let us know how she is, too.
 
This might be a long shot, but check for mouth issues? My Hannah didn't want to come out from under the bed yesterday morning to eat which is VERY abnormal for her since she's usually following me down the hall meowing at me all the way to "get her the darn food, NOW". I finally did get her to come out, and once she started eating, she finished it just like she always does. But then a few minutes later when I went to give her a good scratch on the chin after her shot, I discovered that she had 3 huge pimples under her chin...so she suddenly developed kitty acne literally overnight. I can only guess, but they were probably pretty painful, and probably the reason why she wasn't eager to come out and eat. The rest of the day, she ate when I put the bowl down, but never came asking for it, which she usually does. Now today, after I've been "treating" her acne for a day (only washing her chin after each meal at this point since I haven't made it to the drug store), she has been her regular pushy self about the food.

So maybe check in and around Jinglebells' mouth for anything that might make eating unpleasant? Sores, acne, tooth issues?
 
If you've got a good dose, the carbs in the food and the resulting glucose may be getting into the cells to work. This can reduce hunger. Any glucose tests would be in good numbers between 50-130 mg/dL on a human glucometer.

If Jinglebells has something else going on - pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, IBD, whatever - any of these may reduce appetite. Glucose tests often would continue to be elevated.
 
Part II Not eating...Jinglebells

Just got back from my dad's birthday. We left a pop-up for Jingles to eat, but when we returned...she hadn't eaten it. My daughter sat by her and fed her some from a new can. She ate about 1/2 of a can and then uuuuuuuuuurp...vomited it right back up. Ughhhhhh. She hasn't vomited in MONTHS! What in the world is going on. Are there any cats that just cannot tolerate insulin of any kind? She does not seem to be feeling well since we started the Lantus and now with the no eating and the vomiting coming back, it is all just so frustrating. nailbite_smile
 
Maybe you should only give her like 1/8th of a can every hour, so smaller meals.

Tomorrow, if you take her to the vet, you can ask them about whether trying some Cerenia might help her with the vomiting.
 
Have you tested the urine for ketones? One symptom of diabetic ketoacidosis is not eating and vomiting. Also, that is also a sign of pancreatitis.
Have you called your vet?
Called the ER?
 
I agree, sounds like a vet visit is in order. My Gypsy refused to eat once and the vet gave cerenia. It did help. Also gave some sub q fluids which I suspect really helped.

Have you tried any other insulins? Lantus is great but there are other options if it isn't working.
 
Can you pick up some Pepcid AC (nothing else in it)?
1/4 tablet 20 min before eating can help calm an upset stomach.

Give only small meals at a time and have fresh water available.

Could be pancreatitis.
 
Hi,
Thanks all. We have a 24 hour vet if we need to. We have gotten food in her, she just doesn't seem interested--usually banging down the door and biting our fingers to get at anything related to food. We are doing the small feedings right now. We have the subQ fluids (she gets them nightly) + all of the other meds (Cerenia, pepcid, etc) that were mentioned, so if need be, we can use them. She's alert and feeling okay [no insulin seems to agree with her really]--have tried PZI, too--it is just strange that she isn't scarfing down the food and barfing up her food is something we finally got rid of prior to putting her on Lantus again. So, we weren't happy to see that today. I will keep you updated, but for now she's doing ok. Picking at the food, but at least something is going in. :-|
 
i have a hard time imagining the vomiting is the fault of the insulin. I've never heard of that. More likely, she's having a bout of pancreatitis or something like that, which makes her nauseated while raising her blood sugar, and is coinciding with you starting her back up on insulin.

We usually encourage people to give any insulin 6 months of good effort before deciding it doesn't work for them. No insulin is an instant fix in a cat - they have a fast metabolism and it takes time to get a cat regulated.

I wouldn't hesitate to give her the pepcid and some cerenia to help address the nausea and vomiting. if that diminishes, she may be more interested in eating.
 
Julie...what do you mean by, "No insulin is an instant fix in a cat."

6 months??? Wow. That's a long time. I never imagined it could take that long.
 
sorry - i fell asleep early last night and didn't see your question til just now.

what i mean is that cats are notoriously difficult to get diabetes regulated in comparison to dogs and people. both dogs and people can get a dose figured out with the vet/doc, and then they basically stick with that dose for long periods of time. Cats have fast metabolisms and it can take a while to get a cat figured out.

Some cats get on insulin and on a low-carb canned food diet and they'll heal and go off of insulin (becoming diet-controlled), almost in spite of what the people do.

But often, it takes more time and effort to get a cat regulated. My cat, Punkin, was diabetic because of a benign tumor on his pituitary gland. It blocked his body from being able to use the insulin his pancreas put out. He lived 2.5 years after being diagnosed with the diabetes. Acromegaly isn't common, but isn't rare either. Cats become diabetic for a variety of reasons, and sometimes that reason determines what the outcome will be. The longest I've heard of a cat living with diabetes was 14 years. We just try to give them the care they need, no matter how long it takes!

After a while taking care of a diabetic cat becomes very routine.
 
5/27/14 JINGLEBELLS' FOOD SITUATION

Hi,
So we've sort of determined that it isn't that Jinglebells WON'T eat, it is that she has suddenly decided she doesn't like the Royal Cainin Reduced Calorie. I find this terribly odd since she would voraciously eat this 8-9 times a day prior to the start of the Lantus. So, all I can figure is that maybe the tiny bit of insulin she IS getting is helping her to not be so famished, and now she can be picky about her food. Anyone else run into this situation?

Vet said her Potassium could have gone low due to the insulin which may be causing her lethargy, but he can't think of a reason why the insulin could have caused her to not like the food. Anyone know anything about this potassium link to insulin?

Someone on here said that WE know our cats best, and so my gut is telling me that she is just getting picky. Perhaps this is good news????

I picked up some ground turkey breast meat, grilled it, pummeled it in the food processor and sprinkled it in with the Royal Cainin wet food. She licked the plate clean. Is it okay to do this???
 
If she had an upset stomach while eating a particular food, she may have a learned aversion to it.

Per Dr Pierson of Cat Info, you can add about 20-25% plain meat or poultry to a cat food safely.
 
there are also plenty of low carb canned foods that you can try. http://www.catinfo.org that BJM mentions has a list of food and what the carb content of various foods is. Less than 10% is considered low carb. most of us give somewhere in the 5%ish range.

Another option is raw food. You can buy it already prepared or make it yourself.

It's not uncommon for cats to get finicky and for people to go on the search to try to find a new food(s) that kitty will eat! I think it's good detective work to figure out that it's actually more about the food than about how Jinglebells feels. Fortiflora (amazon or from a vet) is a probiotic that a lot of cats like, so sprinkling it on the food can make the food more enticing.
 
We just started Lantus (.5 once a day) on Friday.
Click to expand...
Most cats do not do well with insulin only being given once a day. Jinglebells may need shots twice a day, roughly 12 hours apart to get her numbers back in the normal range.

Have you seen this food chart by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson? Try any of these foods that are <10% carbs( 3rd column of numbers under calorie %) and see what Jinglebells likes. Many of us here feed the Friskies pates, Fancy Feast pates or Wellness Grain free foods. There are lots of choices on this food chart.

Are there any complicating medical issues that Jinglebells has that necessitates her being on the Royal Canin Reduced Calorie food?
 
Jinglebells Diet/Food/Vomiting

Hi, All...

We've been working on Dr.Pierson's list for over 2 years. Jinglebell's stomach is extremely sensitive. Friskies causes her diabetes to skyrocket (dramatic increased thirst, etc), so we won't be going back on that. Fancy Feast Classics <10% make her immediately throw up, as do the Wellness brands and most others. I can't tell you how many cans of different kinds of food we have tried (over the counter and perscription) over the last 3 years--always slowly changing so as to not cause tummy upsets. We were battling the vomiting on ALL of these foods (including the Merrick) until she came off of a hospital visit and the vet prescribed the Calorie Control Royal Cainin. She hadn't thrown up in months, but the last 2 days we have had 2 vomit/regurgitation (can't remember which is which) episodes right after eating (literally right back up). It happens when she eats a little bit too much--yet for 2 solid months she has been downing 1/2 to 3/4 of a can 8 to 9 times a day with NO vomiting. Seems like the insulin has somehow affected the eating, the food choice, the vomiting, etc. We can't put our finger on it, but the facts are hard to deny.

Doc plans on increasing the dosage (I suspect to the every 12 hours thing) but said he doesn't want to do it yet. I suppose due to her poor history on insulin. She's just so dang sensitive to EVERYTHING! So, if anyone has had any similar situations, our ears are open...and thanks for listening.
 
What do her feces look like? In some cats with diabetes, there can be destruction of the digestive enzyme producing cells which can result in vomiting, loose stools/diarrhea, and light colored stools.
There is a test for it, and it requires fasting for 8-12 hours to get the best results. Subtle problems may not show any stool issues.

Or, there is the empiracle approach where you and the vet agree to a trial of supplemental enzymes to see if that helps her eat better.
 
Another possibility is she has become allergic to one of the proteins.... beef is a common one.... but some cats become allergic to chicken. Vomiting up their food is common.
The way to test that is to switch to a novel protein that she hasn't eaten.... such as rabbit. lamb? venison?

There is also a limited ingredient food .... I can't remember the brand at the moment... it might have been max cat or natural balance...... I've seen it at Petco.
 
BJM...Yes, her Specialist thinks she might have EPI (Pancreatic Insufficiency). I demanded the test (despite the last vet saying it couldn't be it). Her numbers say she doesn't have it. All of her symptoms say it is pretty likely. Specialist says something else might be influencing her numbers, but we aren't sure what that might be yet. We tried enzymes. She responded somewhat fairly, but not dramatic on the weight gain. She developed tummyaches on the enzymes though. We discontinued when we started the diabetes so that we could eliminate some factors and see if the insulin would bring back some of the weight.

Re: her poop...she has MASSIVE poops--like a dog. The runny stools is one symptom of EPI, but they can also have super huge ones (which a lot of people don't know).

How long does it take to see if the insulin will help them gain weight?

P.S. Appetite is back since adding a sprinkling of pulverized turkey breast and it was a good day, despite the numbers.
 
Has the vet tried a round of metronidazole? Bacterial overgrowth syndromes may have similar symptoms to EPI.

FortiFlora?

I read somewhere that it may help to give 1/4 tablet of regular Pepcid before the meal when using the enzymes.

Also, is it possible to adjust the dose downward to a level she doesn't have GI upset?
 
My cat bailey has epi. Did your cat fast before the test? It's important to get proper results.

Bailey was eating uncontrollably. 5-6 cans of fancy feast a day and he is 6lb. He wouldn't gain weight, his poops were smelly (very very!!!) pale and the size of a dogs, puffy, twice to three times a day. I assumed it was all the food due to his diabetes,but then he got bad diarrhea and started to lose weight. The vet tested and his TLI was 6. Normal cats are 12-82. What was yours? So he started on enzymes and a weekly vitamin b12 shot.

Bailey got an upset stomach too on the enzymes the vet gave. The dose was too high and he couldn't handle it. So we started at literally 1/8 tsp per can of fancy feast.. Any more and he would hunch, not eat, drool and stick his tongue out. What kind of enzymes are you using?

We also gave him 1/4 pepcid ac (!not pepcid!! It has to be just famotidine) every day which is supposed to help. Very very slowly we increased at 1/16 tsp every week .. As long as he kept eating. We would stop and hold dose or even reduce if he stopped eating. We just ignored the drooling which continued for months. Took us months to reach the vets ideal dose of 1/3 tsp per can.
The first good sign we saw was better firmer stools which got firmer, darker and less smelly. And he started to eat less but not lose weight. The drooling eased off too eventually.
However after a year he still hasn't gained any weight and is very bony. The vet now says its hard for older cats to gain weight anyway. However I am working to continue to increase dose (as long as he continues to eat and doesn't get soft again) to see if it helps as the epi4dogs forum does say some cats needs higher doses.

You can feed a little , like an occasional treat or two without enzymes but any more and he gets soft and smelly.
 
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