Not a happy camper tonight. shots getting harder

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Terri&Kit

Terri&Kit

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Kit is getting worse and worse with his shots. As soon as I try to "make a tent" he starts flippin out. Usually a little holding down and he's ok. But tonight man he was horrible. I ended up having to throw a towel over his head (I read that helps calm them...yeah right) and wrapping him up. He was hissing and he bit me hard on the back of the arm. I had to borrow some of his ear neosporin lol. Anyone have any tips for shooting a fussy cat?
 
Yeah, I do AM on the left and PM on the right.

Some people have said distract them with food. I tried that, but as soon as I touch him, he stops eating.
 
How large are the needles? If they are the normal ones you get from the vet or wherever, they shouldn't be all that big. (maybe 30g?) I think mine are 29g. Bob never even flinches except when I do the sub-q fluids with a "harpoon" 18g.

You're using PZI right? Are you warming the syringe a little (by rubbing it with your hands) before shooting? Sometimes if it's right out of the fridge, it probably doesn't feel comfortable to Kit.

I was taught a trick for the sub-q fluids and the big needle that you might try. When I've made a good "tent", I put the needle right next to the skin but don't poke. They I "shake" the tent a little, stop and then poke. I think the shaking distracts him so that he doesn't expect or feel the poke as much. I've seen the vet do that when giving shots like rabies and such before. She showed me how to do that when she had me start the sub-q fluids, and it works well on Bob.

Another thing you can try is to go through the ritual of giving him a shot but don't actually give him one. Like at other times during the day. Get him comfortable with having you hold and scruff and tent him, but don't shoot him. He'll get used to the ritual, and when you do have to poke him, it won't be a big deal. I don't think the shot "hurts" all that much. The needle isn't that much bigger than a lancet. Have you ever poked him with the sub-q insulin shot and accidently hit "meat"? I did that once, and Bob yelped. I didn't have the tent pulled up high enough, or I wasn't parallel to his body when I stuck it in I guess.

Carl
 
I'm using the U40s the vet gave me, they are 29G. We are PZI users and I do try to warm it with my hands first.

If he's a little sleepy, its not usually a problem (which he's usually sleepy in the mornings) but in the evenings after I'm home from work and we are playing and he's running around more and obviously not half asleep, he's not as easily manipulated lol. I think he MAY have gotten a fur shot tonight, I'm not sure. He's still pretty mad at me so I haven't gotten to recheck him to see if his BG dropped.

I will try the "tent making" several more times a day and see if that helps.

I bought some calming spray at petsmart, figured I'd spray it on the rug he lays on when I test him and give him his shot and see if that helps.
 
The spray was a good idea.
The fact that Kit is running around and playing speaks volumes about how he's feeling. At the start of the dance here, Bob just laid around and didn't look like he was enjoying life at all. It was a week or two till he started playing. Of course, he had all kinds of issues along with the high BG, but still. I would be encouraged if Kit is playful. If you haven't seen it yet, there's a concept called the "Five P's". Purring, peeing, pooping, playing and preening". If Kit is doing all five of those close to normally, he's doing pretty well, and so are you.

Carl
 
I've had to encourage the playing. He's always been lazy but I'm making an effort to get him moving a little bit. And he's eating again and we are both in a much better place than we were two days ago (except for the bite mark on the back of my arm!) lol.
 
Terri,
when you said "once on the right side, once on the left" are you shooting him on the sides of his body? Some people do. I shot Bob on the right/left sides of his scruff.
Carl
 
No I'm making a tent at the top of his legs where he has extra skin. That is where the vet said to do it. And Ive read several places that there is poor blood flow in the scruff of the neck.
 
Your shot location explains your getting bit! There is NO WAY I could give shots anywhere but the scruff for Shadoe; she made it VERY clear the one and only time I tried that.... regarding absorption, I had heard that there may be quicker absorption on sides / flank but why want to drop quickly and then bounce? That's how I saw it so I have stuck to the scruff and she is just fine.... Oliver is fairly OK with flank shots, but some days he's not happy about it.

Just stick to scruff shots and see if it makes a diff.... if the cat is unhappy with shots, you are just making life difficult for both of you! Switch to scruff and you may find all resistance disappears.

As for fur shot.... Insulin takes a few hours to register on their BG numbrers. I give my cats Levemir and often see little change for Shadoe until maybe +4 and sometimes Oliver is rising to almost +6, but his nadir is around +11 or later.
I don't know your insulin, so does it have a smell? If it were a fur shot, you should feel some wet fur, and if there is a smell to the insulin, you should also be able to smell it on your fingers.
 
Terri&Kit said:
No I'm making a tent at the top of his legs where he has extra skin. That is where the vet said to do it. And Ive read several places that there is poor blood flow in the scruff of the neck.
Click to expand...

I have been giving insulin in the scruff for years and have had 4 diabetic cats. I have never had a problem with any of them. Maybe you should try it and see if that is more comfortable for him
 
Depending on the cat, I gave Maui's shots in her hip area and it was fine. The cat that I sat for (on prozinc) I scruff shot him - not only because he became Mr. Angry with me, but it turned out that he better absorbed the insulin in the scruff then hip area.

So, while yes ideally the place to shoot is hip area, the scruff is also shootable and in your situation may be better.

Also, I didn't always have time to tent and shoot Blue aka Mr. Angry and while he was eating, would from behind shoot him.

I also used 30 gauge U100 needles on him and converted the U40 dose to U100.

You may find that the 30 gauge will be even easier to handle. When I compared the two needles, the 30 gauge was the size of a pin and the 29 gauge U40 looked like a horse needle!

So even one gauge can make a difference.
 
I was pretty worried my cat wasn't going to let me give her injections at all when she was first diagnosed, she has always been difficult. She was fine maybe the first month then she started growling & trying to bite. I use ProZinc & was using the syringes the vet gave me with the 1/2 inch needle. I needed to switch to U100's since I was dosing less than 1 unit so I ended up getting the short 5/16" needles, they have worked much better. It is not necessary to really even tent with these needles, I have heard some people just stick the needle right in. I actually pull up a small amount of skin & most of the time she doesn't fuss. I have discovered it's not the actual shot but the pulling on her when I was trying to get a good place to shoot that irritates her so these have been great. I was also able to get these in a 31 gauge needle so it's even smaller. These needles are tiny compared to the U40's I got from the vet. I got them at Wal Mart & they are less than 14.00 for a box of 100. I did discover the Wal Mart people in my area didn't have a clue what I was asking for. They are the ReliOn 3/10cc - 31 gauge - 8mm (5/16") with 1/2 unit markings. The UPC on the bag is 6 81131 31179 3 be sure you check the UPC on one of the bags inside the box cause the box I got actually had a different UPC on it. You will have to use the conversion chart if you get them though. Good luck & I hope this helps!
 
Scruff area is much less sensitive.
Gradually you will be able to shoot anywhere. For starters...Scruff.
 
Another advantage with the scruff. Kitty isn't likely to be able to get his teeth into your arm.
carl
 
Hi Terri, and, of course, you too, sweet Kit,

I'm a scruff shooter. Kind of do a left, right, center rotation shoot deal. Gizzie taught me to rotate... Nikki has taught me speed...

I've heard there is faster absorption from flank shooting; but, to Giz, flank was a steak and untouchable where she was concerned. Did I mention Nikki's taught me speed? Especially when testing... OMG!

It is interesting dancing with a sugar cat, isn't it?

Love and encouraging hugs for you and Kit,
Deb and Nikki (i'm a furry ferrari...) -- and, Giz, who taught me to dance...
 
I shall try the scruff. I did buy some of the U100 needles but was going to use up the U40s first. If he still pitches a fit, I'll just toss the U40s. He hates being scruffed too, so we'll just have to try it and see how it works out. I've been trying to scruff him every once in awhile so he gets used to it.

Gayle and Shadoe said:
As for fur shot.... Insulin takes a few hours to register on their BG numbrers. I give my cats Levemir and often see little change for Shadoe until maybe +4 and sometimes Oliver is rising to almost +6, but his nadir is around +11 or later.
Click to expand...

If his nadir isn't until +11 are you only shooting once a day? I haven't done a curve yet, so I'm not sure when he starts dropping. I meant to do it today, but ended up falling asleep for 6 hours. Nice nap but poor timing!

Gayle and Shadoe said:
I don't know your insulin, so does it have a smell? If it were a fur shot, you should feel some wet fur, and if there is a smell to the insulin, you should also be able to smell it on your fingers.
Click to expand...

I'll have to investigate the smell. I haven't really noticed if it has one or not.
 
Hi Terri, and, of course, you too, sweet Kit,

Terri&Kit said:
I shall try the scruff. I did buy some of the U100 needles but was going to use up the U40s first. If he still pitches a fit, I'll just toss the U40s. He hates being scruffed too, so we'll just have to try it and see how it works out. I've been trying to scruff him every once in awhile so he gets used to it.
Click to expand...
Just like it helps to fondle their ears in preparation for home testing, it helps to fondle their scruff. The main thing is this. Cats are very intuitive creatures. If you're tense, Kit will sense it and be tense as well. Ironically, Giz -- familial names Cujo, Gizzie Blair, and the Spawn of Satan -- was fairly easy to test and shoot, in the greater scheme of things -- after I got over a mountain of fear. Nikki, who's a furry cupcake with a Betty Boop voice, bites the crap out of me when testing. She's better with the shooting, as I think that after three years, she realizes juice means feeling better. Then again, I always fill a syringe and keep it out of the fridge for at least 15 to 20 minutes before shooting.

Sometimes I'm lucky and not bleeding, because she just wants to swat at me. I've just learned to be faster and get my hands away as soon as I'm done. I can take her swats better than her teeth. She rescued me declawed; but, with a full set of functioning teeth... I'm really good with swats!

Please don't toss the U40 syringes, okay? Why? There may be someone who is either here already, or who stumbles onto dancing with a sugar cat as we all have, who may need those syringes. Definitely keep a few for Kit. You never know. There is a forum here called Supply Closet. Just post you have those syringes available. For months after Giz was diagnosed, I always signed us off as The Perennial Newbies. One day, someone told us to get over it as we were so no longer newbies. That was a huge blow, emotionally and psychologically. But, then I realized that perhaps they were telling me I had enough experience to start paying it forward. Paying it forward was also a huge blow, emotionally and psychologically. It meant I had something to offer. You have syringes. You are probably in the mood to start feeling better. Kit is probably in the mood for you to start feeling better. Takes the pressure off him, which being a cat, is probably all he's looking for...

Yes, Kit is diabetic. But, you know what, dear Terri? He's still your cat. He's just extra-sweet is all. Remember how you two were and got along before his diagnosis? Be that person and let him be that cat. It's hard to consider at this moment, I know. Personally? I was a train wreck. Yet, Giz and I danced for four years. And, bonus! She sent me Nikki. I'm not saying I'm good at this. I just learned to dance is all... And, Terri? There is nothing like dancing with a sugar cat. Trust me. Truly.

Love and countless encouraging hugs for you both as you learn to dance,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me patience while teaching me how to dance...



Edited to add a PS...

PS: When Giz was diagnosed and her test results were being both faxed and called in to the ER hospital -- she was DKA -- and I was sobbing whilst planting my MasterCard on the counter, her vet came out to say, "Why all the tears? Can you give two shots a day?" I immediately said, "Yes!" completely forgetting my lifelong needle-phobia... Quite frankly, Terri, shaking and terrified as I was, I don't know if or how much insulin I actually got into Giz when she came home after three days/nights in ICU. I do remember sobbing one night after I maybe shot her, and going into the kitchen and grabbed a hot pad that I discovered bore a remarkable resemblance to her scruff when tented. I started taking the used syringe after every single shot and practicing shooting that hot pad. Noticed after two weeks I had a swift and smooth shooting delivery. No shakes. No gagging. No nervousness. Check your kitchen... Practice!
 
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