No insulin, low BG, went to vet, need reassurance

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PumaMum

Member Since 2012
We've had a difficult day so far, and it seemed as if the FDMB was down or I would have posted much earlier.

Puma has not had insulin in 4 days - last dose was 0.5 U of PZI U100 at breakfast on 7/18. This morning his BG was 55 pre breakfast but he was acting his normal self. He ate a normal breakfast - almost a full cann of FF. Since it's Sunday, I could check BGs in the day and when I checked 2 hour later I was shocked to find it only 44. He was still acting fine, maybe a bit lazy but who knows, our cats often lie around sleepily much of the day. We fed more food, and some higher carb treats, and kept checking and it was getting no better. Took him to the vet - different vet, our local Banfield Pet Hospital, first time we'd been there. Don't know how much was stress, but his BG on their glucometer was up to 87 and same blood sample was 68 at the same time on ours. We're using a Relion micro meter from Walmart.

Anyway, our vet's advice was that our meter may not be as accurate for cats as for humans, and is likely to be testing lower than Puma really is, especially since he has no apparent hypo symptoms. She recommended monitoring him closely for behavior, and watching the BG trends. She also recommended a prescription diet, suggested we try to make food available often, and I picked up some cans of Hills PD r/d which so far Puma won't even sniff. The hard thing with that is that we have 4 cats, they've all become great fans of FF in the last couple of weeks. The vet suggested that high fiber would slow absorption and be more gentle to his recovering pancreas.

Has anyone else seen low BG trends off insulin? What have you done to monitor? What have you done to treat? My crazy theory is that his pancreas is now over-responding and releasing too much insulin, his regulatory system has gone a bit wild and he's not fine-tuned. What should I do about his diet?
Jane
and Puma
Puma's SS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... li=1#gid=0
 
One night my Pumbaa went down to 38 (on Lantus) and had no hypo symptoms, either, thankfully.

I know I've read that some cats are fine in the 40's, with no signs of going hypo, including non FD cats.

Hopefully someone else will chime in on this and help with your OTJ kitty.

Good luck!

Suze

ps: I couldn't log in earlier, either, so the site might have been down or there could have been internet connectivity problems between us and their servers.
 
The vet was right in that human meters do read lower for cats by 20 or so points so his real blood sugars would have been a bit higher than what you are seeing. The Fancy Feast will be fine for Puma and had similar carb levels/ingredients as the prescription wet stuff so just keep using thd FF since all your cats like it.

40 on a human meter is still normal for a cat who's not on insulin so I don't think you have anything to worry about. If he was acting "drunk" of woozy/unable to rouse him then it would be worth a trip to the vet to investigate but as long as he's acting normally I think he'd just in thd normal glucose range for a healthy cat
 
Hello Jane,
my Pudge is in remission (was on ProZinc) and regularly runs BGs in 40s as do his 2 litter mates who were never diabetic. His first BG of 46 scared me, too! They're about 11 years old. I would trash Hill's junk (better still, take it back to the vet for a refund - Purina will refund vet) and stick faithfully to FF classics or whatever low carb canned food you choose. As treats, I give freeze dried chicken bits. Seems to me that Puma is trying mightily to go off the juice :-D Great!! Best wishes, Sophie
 
I am not an expert...but I think the folks here are saying that it looks like Puma may have gone into remission and no longer needs insulin - which would be a great thing!! You don't have to worry about a hypo incident if you are not giving insulin, and since you havn't given any since Thursday, that would seem to be the case. You also don't want to be feeding any high carb foods or syrup now because you don't want to push up those BG numbers higher than they are. Those low numbers are normal for a non-insulin dependent cat. Low numbers are only dangerous for 12 hours after you have given insulin. Since your cat has not had insulin since Thursday, those low numbers are being produced naturally; again, a good thing.

I would also say to stop trying to get the BG numbers up... keep feeding the low carb food you were feeding prior to you recent vet visit (not the Hills) and that you may soon have reason to celebrate if the numbers stay naturally low without insulin.

Experts what is your assessment?
 
Thank you all so much!! :razz:
This has all happened so quickly, and I feel so lucky to have found this great community. You helped me in just a few days figure out insulin, diet, and home BG monitoring, and then within another few days I was lucky enough to be tapering and stopping Puma's insulin. He's a young cat - only 4 - so I'm very glad for his sake that he seems to be doing so well at the moment.
He's been happy since getting home from the vet, reclaiming the house and playing with our other cats.
Jane
 
Jane: You will want to keep testing Puma for the next couple of weeks (maybe a couple times a day) to make sure the BG doesn't start creeping back up. This is his "trial period." If all goes well after 14 days of no insulin, you can have an off-the-juice party "OTJ" :)

Also, remember that Puma will ALWAYS be diabetic, for the rest of his life, even though he may not need insulin injections. So you must continue feeding him low carb food. Also, you should continue testing Puma at least monthly (after his "trial period")to make sure he is still in remission. Some cats go into remission for a time (even a year or more), but relapse to needing insulin at some point in the future. So you will want to check him periodically so you catch it early if he relapses in the future.

Experts, is this correct advice?
 
Melanie is correct...once a diabetic, always a diabetic. You will want to feed low carb canned for the rest of his long life. I always think of it as Bob is just one bag of dry food away from needing insulin again. And I still test Bob once a week after a year of no juice. Keeps me sane :lol:

This is awesome news, and don't worry about what the meter says with 40's. That is perfectly normal and Puma will not cause himself to go "hypo" when you aren't giving him any insulin.

Carl

Edit... should have said I still test once every few weeks, not every week:-) I can't afford shrimp that often!
 
I'm so glad you posted and am even more happy that your cats are smart enough not to eat the r/d. ;-) Since your boy went OTJ on FF, it makes sense to keep feeding that. Besides, look at the ingredients in canned r/d:

Water, Pork Liver, Powdered Cellulose, Pork By-Products, Corn Starch, Brewers Rice, Chicken, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Guar Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Chicken Liver Flavor, Choline Chloride, L-Carnitine, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.

Terrible quality meat and look at those starches! Eating that could pop your boy on insulin again!

Normal BGs can run from the 30s to the 80s. Without exogenous insulin on board, your kitty cannot hypo. This calls for the dance of joy! Keep doing what you're doing, and long may the diet control last! \M/
 
Just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate the reassurance!
Yes, the Hills is going back, and we're committed to FF for life, for Puma and our other three cats who are relishing it just as much. Everyone is looking happier and healthier, in fact.
We'll keep randomly checking Puma's BG over the next couple of weeks and monitoring his behavior. And yes, we know that as Carl and Bob put it, all diabetic cats (even those OTJ) are just one bag of dry food away from high BGs and sickness...
Jane
and Puma (adopted at 18 months after being returned to a shelter)
and Mishky (rescued feral), and Sushki (rescued feral), and Clipsy (the oldest)
and Rou the 73 pound rescued greyhound who also loves the cats
 
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