Newly diagnosed, so confused about food!!

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KigerKat

KigerKat

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Our 10 year old Jack was just diagnosed last week. My heart was broken, but I've managed to go a couple of days without crying! He's currently on 1 unit of Lantus twice a day and our vet has him eating both dry and wet Hill's m/d food. Previously, all 3 of our cats were eating only Science Diet Oral Care for many, many years.

Our concerns come from what to do for all three, and how soon? After reading catinfo.org and several threads here, it seems that a lot of people have had some really good luck with feeding their cats nothing but Fancy Feast Classic cat food. I think our goal is to do this for all 3, but we're not sure about the Rx food Jack is on right now. Our vet seems to be really pushing the Rx food, but according to catinfo.org, the Hill's Rx foods can be just as bad as all the other "junk" foods for cats.

Here is what we are currently doing. We are feeding Jack 1/2 can of Rx food about 30 minutes before his shots each day and then mixing the Science Diet Oral Care and the Hill's m/d for the other cats, but Jack still eats it, too. We don't normally free-feed the cats, 7:30 has always been their "dinner time" where they would get about 1 1/2 cups for the three of them. I'm worried about Jack having a hypo episode when no one is home and not having any food available to eat, so I would personally feel safer if he has some food out if that were to happen. Does anyone else have this same concern?

Of course, our goal is to get him into remission as soon as possible and I know that has a lot to do with his diet. He LOVES the Rx canned food, so I think he would love any kind of canned food. I guess I really want to know how much should we feed him and how soon should we switch them over, or should we just listen to our vet and stick with the Rx food? My husband and I both gave ourselves headaches yesterday discussing this, and I sent an email to our vet with our concerns and plan to discuss with him today, as well. The other issue we have is that our other male cat is a Bengal, a breed which has a history of sensitive stomachs. I tried to switch them to Blue Buffalo a couple of years ago, and it ended up costing us about $300 at the emergency vet to help him with his constipation.

Just looking at the feeding instructions on a can of FF is shocking: 1 can per 2.5 pounds of cat. Jack is normally 18 lbs, now down to 15 lbs, 12 oz (vet said he was overweight at 18 and currently underweight, so ideal would be about 17), our other male cat is 17 lbs and our female is about 10. That's 17 cans a day!! I don't understand why they can't make their cans bigger? I can't imagine buying almost a case of cans each day!!

Okay, I just realized that I've been rambling... I guess I'll wrap up, for now. My stepsister is sending us a glucose meter she used for her kitty, along with about 3 years of test strips. I know I'll be back when we start home testing!

Thanks for your help!!
 
The feeding recommendation on the can is generally more than what you should actually feed. Bandit's ideal weight is around 13 lbs and he was getting 7.5 oz of FF a day (2 1/2 cans). The higher calorie food, the less you have to feed. I switched to EVO 95% and Merricks and now he's only getting 6 oz a day to maintain the same weight. You might want to check out the EVO. I found it was cheaper to feed EVO if I bought the 13 oz cans from the independently owned pet food store in my town than Fancy Feast, and it's a better quality food. It's a $1.75 for the big cans there. There are store locators on their web site if you want to find a place near you. Plus, I feed less of it than i did the FF.

As for your cat with the sensitive stomach, ask your vet for a box of Fortiflora to help with the food transition, and make sure you transition slowly. You might want to think about adding half a packet of Fortiflora to the Bengal's food daily. You can also give him a stool softener daily if that doesn't work--many people use miralax, lactolose, or psyllium powder to help constipated cats. My Gabby needed lactolose daily from the age 14+.

Good job ditching the dry food! All of your cats will be healthier because of it. And it will be extremely difficult to regulate your diabetic cat while feeding it. The prescription food is still too high in carbs for diabetic cats, and many cats don't like it.

You can free feed wet food. Many people add water to prolong the life of the food while they're gone, or freeze it and leave out the frozen food to slowly thaw. Bandit will try to eat the frozen food if I leave it out, so I freeze it and use an autofeeder. This is the one I have but there are others people like: http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Fee...DTJA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308592264&sr=8-1. I recommend getting 1 per cat so they all can eat at the same time. The ones I have are easy to synch up.
 
Welcome Jack and Jack's person (name would help and be friendlier)

I have 11 cats only one of which is a diabetic. Everyone here eats exactly what the diabetic eats. Just plain Friskies Pate style canned cat food. Not only is my diabetic in remission my other cats are doing absolutely awesome on the diet switch.

Now out of my furry herd not a single one of them would touch the RXed stuff after about the first few weeks, and the novelty of it wore off. Its mostly liver so most cats tire of it pretty quickly.

Others use fancy feast just fine but you want to stay with the classics nothing with gravy in it. Just around here with 11 cats I just wasn't willing to pop that many 3oz cans...lol.

You can still free fed just add a little water to the canned food to keep it fresher longer, or some folks either freeze it or used a timed feeder if they aren't going to be home for a period of time.

But the best way not to worry so much about Jack having a hypo is to learn to test him at home, before every shot, that way you will know in seconds if he is high enough to safely give the shot to.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
Vets push the RX food because
1. They've been conditioned by the pet food industry that the company's "nutritionists" know what's best for cats.
2. They make a profit off the food they sell.

You can't blame them for #2 and you really can't blame them for #1 either. Dr. Lisa takes the common sense approach to feeding cats and so does Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins. They both understand cat physiology and stress that cats need a species appropriate diet because they process meat differently than dogs and they cannot process grains properly at all. Cats are NOT dogs yet the pet food industry continues to feed them that way.

It would be a wonderful world if all vets spoke the same language, but only a few speak the right language when it comes to cats and diet.

Many of us here thought we were doing the right thing by feeding our cats the "name brand", "vet recommended", "thoroughly researched" diets. Our cats have paid and are continuing to pay the price for an industry's greed and outright negligence.

Sorry to be on a soapbox, but we continually see owners who are lost between doing what's right for their cats and what the vet tells them is best to do. Since you're already familiarly with Dr. Lisa's site, please follow her advice - ditch the prescription food and feed a high quality canned food such as EVO or Wellness. Fancy feast is OK and helpful to transition cats to a canned diet, but pound for pound you'll get more value out of the better quality ingredient brands like Innova/EVO or Wellness.

No, I get no profit from either company. None of us here do. We just want to help you do the best for your cats.
 
Just make sure to check expiration dates on those test strips when you receive them. As for preventing a hypo by leaving food out like dry, my Baby(GA) had food available both times but still did not go up to eat on her own. The one hypo she actually was sleeping right into it.
 
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
Just make sure to check expiration dates on those test strips when you receive them. As for preventing a hypo by leaving food out like dry, my Baby(GA) had food available both times but still did not go up to eat on her own. The one hypo she actually was sleeping right into it.
Click to expand...


Luckily, my stepsister's best friend works for Abbott, and that's where she got all of her testing supplies through. She said she can still get me test strips as I need them, so I think we're good there.

As for the food, I appreciate all the suggestions. Thanks for letting me know about the high calorie content - I would not have thought about that. Jack will be going in for his glucose curve next Monday, so I'm hoping to make a decision today so he can be on his "regular" diet by the time he goes in.

How long did it take you to switch your cat to all wet food? Did you mix it for a while? In what amounts? If they take to it really well, can I make an instant switch? Can I get the Fortiflora OTC?

Ugh! So many questions....
 
KigerKat said:
As for the food, I appreciate all the suggestions. Thanks for letting me know about the high calorie content - I would not have thought about that. Jack will be going in for his glucose curve next Monday, so I'm hoping to make a decision today so he can be on his "regular" diet by the time he goes in.

How long did it take you to switch your cat to all wet food? Did you mix it for a while? In what amounts? If they take to it really well, can I make an instant switch? Can I get the Fortiflora OTC?

Ugh! So many questions....
Click to expand...

If you're home testing, you don't need to bring Jack in for a glucose curve--it's a waste of money. Numbers at the vet's office are often higher because of stress, which can lead to overdosing. I managed Bandit into remission without once paying for a curve or fructosamine. I collected my home testing data into a spreadsheet and shared it with my vet, and we adjusted dosing according to the Lantus protocol.

Fortiflora is OTC, and you get get it at most any vet's office. You can also buy it online, where it's slightly cheaper than the vet: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ords=fortiflora+feline&ie=UTF8&qid=1308599092

When switching over a diet, you'll want to do it over the course of a week. Start with 75% old food/25% new food the first two days, then 50% old food/50% new food the next two or three days, then 25% old food/75% new food the final two days. Just make sure you're home testing when you switch the food because it's likely his blood glucose will drop!
 
We don't have the glucose monitor yet, but it should have been shipped today.

As far as the diet goes, I think we will most likely start the switch over to all wet as soon as we get the glucose meter. The vet wants to do the glucose curve next week to check his insulin dose. He does want us to do home testing and told us about the "white coat syndrome", which even I get with my own bp readings. I think with us being new to this disease, I feel safer bringing Jack in next week for that rather than trying to do it ourselves. Once we get used to doing the testing on our own, I think we should be good.

THANK YOU EVERYONE for all of your help and advice. I look forward to the day that I can offer advice to newbies and tell them my buddy is in remission!!
 
Fancy Feast is a good low carb brand that many people feed. It's inexpensive and available in many stores, from the supermarket to the drug store to chain pet stores.

Keep in mind that many pet food companies tend to over estimate the amount of food to feed :roll: I guess they do that so you run out of food faster and so have to buy more.

Any low carb brand of food is good, really :smile: The key is low carb. Those little cans of Fancy Feast can add up in cost since you have to feed so many cans a day. There are many brands of low carb food that come in larger can sizes. Wellness is similar to Fancy Feast and comes in 5 ounce and 12 ounce cans. You can find Wellness at Petco now. Innova EVO comes in 3 cans sizes, too (3 ounce, 5 ounce, and 12 ounce).

If your cat is already eating the prescription junk canned food, you can just switch him over to commerical canned. BUT don't do this if you're not testing blood glucose levels. A lower carb food can have a big effect on blood glucose levels, sometimes dropping it over a 100 points. If your cat is on insulin and you do a diet change without testing, the results could be a pretty bad hypo.
 
My cats switched to wet pretty easily. Sometimes you just need to buy a lot of different kinds and see what they like. Here is a of low carb foods I have prepared:

The Expensive Side

Merrick BG
Beef*
Chicken*
Turkey*

Wellness
Beef & Chicken*
Chicken*
Turkey*

Merrick
Cowboy Cookout*

Evo
EVO 95% Beef*
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey*
EVO 95% Duck
EVO 95% Venison*

Nature’s Variety
Raw beef*
Raw Chicken & Turkey*


The Cheaper Side

Fancy Feast Classic only
Chicken
Beef & Liver
Turkey and Giblets
Beef
Beef & Chicken
Chopped Grill

Special Kitty (Walmart)
Mixed Grill
Prime Entrée
Super Supper
Turkey & Giblets

Sophisticat (Petsmart)
Beef & Liver
Beef Stew
Country Style
Elegant Entrée
Mixed Grill
Turkey & Giblets

Sophisticat Adult Supreme (Petsmart)
Supreme Beef & Chicken
Supreme Beef
Supreme Gourmet Chicken
Supreme Turkey & Giblets

Friskie’s Classic Pate
Country Style Dinner*
Liver & Chicken Dinner
Poultry Platter
Supreme Supper
Turkey & Giblets

Friskie’s Special Diet
Beef & Chicken*
Beef & Liver*


* also lower in phosphorous (<250 mg) (important for kitties with chronic kidney disease)


Good luck!!!
 
I spoke with our vet last night. Gotta love a vet that will stay at their office late and be on the phone with you until 9:30 talking about cat food!

He did criticize Dr. Pierson a little bit, for not knowing anything about her other than her website. He prefers to take advice from Dr. Alice Wolf, who I guess is Board Certified. He said any vet can create a website, but he hasn't seen any published articles or studies from her and can't find her credentials anywhere online, other than where she went to vet school.

That being said, he did agree that an all wet food diet is better than a dry food diet. He agreed that it would be good for us to switch all three kitties to all wet food and does recommend that we leave a little dry out for Jack, in case he has a hypo episode when no one is home. He told me that some cats will instinctively head for their food dish if their blood sugar drops too low, and I would much rather have it out in case that happens, than not have it out and his condition worsens before someone can get home to help him.

Our vet gave us a list of more affordable foods that Dr. Wolf recommends for a low carb diet, and many of those that Jenny listed are on there. He didn't mention any of the more expensive brands, just mostly Friskies and Fancy Feast. I think we might experiment for a while and see what our cats will eat before we decide on one. But personally, I'm leaning towards Wellness and Evo.

He told us what to get to help our Bengal (Maverick) with his sensitive tummy and told us that he's not very likely to get constipated from this kind of switch. When this happened last time, he was being switched to a dry Blue Buffalo, and I may have switched them a little too quickly - he suggested 10% new for 3 days, then 25%, and on, and on.... So it will take about 2 weeks to get them all fully switched over.

So NOW....the plan is to wait until we get the glucose meter from my stepsister, THEN start the switch over for all three. I'll head out to the store today and get a new kind of food for Jack, so he's not eating the Rx food anymore before his shots.

Whew. I feel better.
 
Jenny and Sue said:
My cats switched to wet pretty easily. Sometimes you just need to buy a lot of different kinds and see what they like. Here is a of low carb foods I have prepared:

The Expensive Side

...

Evo
EVO 95% Beef*
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey*
EVO 95% Duck
EVO 95% Venison*
Click to expand...

I would disagree about EVO being on the expensive side...it worked out for me to be cheaper to feed EVO 95% than Fancy Feast when you factor in the cost per oz of the 13oz cans vs. the cost per oz. of the 3oz cans. That was one of the reasons I changed Bandit's food. I was paying about 50 cents a can for Fancy Feast at PetSmart when it was on sale, which worked out to be about 17 cents an oz. I'm paying 1.75 for a 13 oz can, which is about 13 cents an oz. Plus, I'm feeding 6 oz a day instead of 7.5 oz because of the higher calorie content.
 
KigerKat said:
He agreed that it would be good for us to switch all three kitties to all wet food and does recommend that we leave a little dry out for Jack, in case he has a hypo episode when no one is home. He told me that some cats will instinctively head for their food dish if their blood sugar drops too low, and I would much rather have it out in case that happens, than not have it out and his condition worsens before someone can get home to help him.
Click to expand...

Unless you remove the dry food completely, you will have trouble regulating your cat. Even if you're only feeding a small amount. If you want to make sure you have food out to avoid a hypo incident when you're not home, see my post above about free feeding wet food.

I made sure I set my auto-feeders for 5-6 hours after Bandit's insulin shot, when he hit the lowest number of his cycle, and I never once had a hypo incident. If you're home testing before each injection, and possibly before you leave for work, you'll have a very good idea about how Jack is dropping and if you're in danger of an incident.

I've seen cat after cat here who is only eating a "small" amount of dry food, and the moment it's removed, they regulate or even immediately go into remission. It's very important you get rid of all of the dry.
 
What I do is put out about 3oz of wet food PER cat. I add some water to each bowl and mix it all up. This keeps this food moist and it can sit out for hours. That way your kitty will have access to wet food 24 hours/day in case of a hypo. It doesn't have to be dry food that is left out.
 
We have finally implemented a plan!!

I have chosen Wellness canned food in either Turkey, Chicken or Turkey and Salmon flavors. We returned the dry Rx food to Petsmart, and I'm hoping our vet will take back the 22 cans we have left. I would like to try the Innova Evo canned food, but I can't find it locally. In case something happens I would like to be able to run down the street and get it.

We are starting with 10% wet mixed with their regular Oral Care that they've eaten for years. I'll also mix in a little plain, vanilla yogurt (vet recommended) for our Bengal with the sensitive tummy. Jack will still get straight wet food 30 minutes before his shots, but for the next 10-14 days, he will have access to carbs from the switchover mixture. We should have our glucose meter by the time they are all on 100% wet food and hopefully be well versed on how to use it, and can closely monitor Jack's glucose levels to make sure he's doing well.

We'll stick to free feeding a small amount of wet food mixed with water, like some of you have suggested. I'm a full time student, and out of school until July 5th, so I definitely have plenty of time to focus on this and learn everything I can while keeping a close eye on my buddy during the food transition. Jack is still going in next Monday for his glucose curve test, but we hopefully won't have to do it again once we learn how to test him ourselves.
 
If you switch to low carb canned food, you may need to reduce the amount of insulin because you are reducing the amount of carbs.
 
You'll find the higher end foods in non-chain pet stores. Most pet food company web sites have a store locator that you can use. Here's the Innova store locator: http://www.naturapet.com/where-to-buy/

Small non-chain pet stores may sell the higher quality brands in cases of 12 or 24. That may be more cost effective. Ask at your local store :smile:
 
Just tell your vet that your cat stopped eating the rx canned food so you had to go with something else. This is incredibly common because of the high liver content in the rx food (cats get sick of liver really quick) so they'll believe you. :-)

I doubt you'll have a big problem with the lower carb food if you're switching the food so gradually, but don't stop feeding Jack dry food until your meter arrives and you start testing, ok? 1u is not a dangerous dose, but once all the dry food is gone some cats immediately go into remission, so you want to be prepared.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Just tell your vet that your cat stopped eating the rx canned food so you had to go with something else. This is incredibly common because of the high liver content in the rx food (cats get sick of liver really quick) so they'll believe you. :-)

I doubt you'll have a big problem with the lower carb food if you're switching the food so gradually, but don't stop feeding Jack dry food until your meter arrives and you start testing, ok? 1u is not a dangerous dose, but once all the dry food is gone some cats immediately go into remission, so you want to be prepared.
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He knows that we wanted to switch all the cats to the same diet, so he should be expecting us to return it. Jack's insulin dosage is 1 unit twice a day, which from what our vet says and from what we've read online, is a fairly low dosage. I think his original glucose reading was around 480, so I was kind of thinking the same thing you were with him still having access to the dry stuff for the next week or so.

He is pretty tired a lot right now. The vet told us last night that it could be one of three things: either his sugar is coming down, his sugar is still high, or he's just resting from not being able to rest well for a while. Ugh. I wish I had that meter now so I knew what was going on! At least he is still interested in stuff and wants to be around us. He even brought his toy into the bedroom the other night to play...too bad we were fast asleep when he did!
 
Yes, it doesn't hurt to have a spare meter! The Relion is pretty cheap and works well. It never hurts to have a back up meter...I have both the Relion Micro and the Aviva Accuchek. The Aviva is my meter of choice, but the strips are expensive in stores so I buy them online. The Relion was good to have if I ran out of strips and needed a back up where I could run to the store 24 hours a day and not get charged an arm and a leg. :-)
 
KigerKat said:
We have finally implemented a plan!!

I have chosen Wellness canned food in either Turkey, Chicken or Turkey and Salmon flavors. We returned the dry Rx food to Petsmart, and I'm hoping our vet will take back the 22 cans we have left. I would like to try the Innova Evo canned food, but I can't find it locally. In case something happens I would like to be able to run down the street and get it.
Click to expand...

This was extremely important for us when we chose a food for Willy and the main reason we were against prescription food (before we found our way here and learned much more)! We actually had an instance when we were out of town (with Willy) and we miscounted and ran out of food! Fancy Feast is really AWESOME for this (since you can get it at Walmart, Walgreens, and supermarkets at 1am if needed).

Wellness is a great food, lots of people have success with it. Unfortunately, my civvies don't like it. We started with FF because of how easily available it is, it is a good value for the quality (grain, soy free), and there are many formulas out there. Everyone took to it easily and they all enjoyed it. Since then we have switched all the cats to a mixture of 75% Evo 95% Turkey and Chicken and 25% Fancy Feast Classic (to add in some variety). I also hope that by keeping the FF around, if we had an issue with the Evo (ran out) we would be able to feed it without causing too many digestive issues.

I don't know if this would help, but we found Evo at a local feed/tack shop after checking Evo's website http://wtb.naturapet.com/. They did not carry the Turkey and Chicken variety, only beef. We spoke to one of the supervisors and they were super awesome! They order whatever we need at no additional costs and knock 5% off for buying full cases! This seems to be popular for feed stores to do (from what I have read on this site), so it could be worth checking into. My cats tend to be all or nothing with food brands-- they either like the brand and will eat any formula or they hate it and won't eat any of it-- so we bought 1 can of the beef and it went over well. They love the Turkey and Chicken formula.

There are also sites out there like:
http://www.petflow.com/
http://www.petfooddirect.com/
that you can get Evo for a reasonable price... unfortunately, depending on where you live, the shipping can really kick your butt. I think in the Supply Closet forum, there are coupons for these food sites to help with shipping and such. Some of these sites even do automated shipping (where you set it up to deliver x amount of food every y amount of time). Kinda cool if you can estimate how much food you go through!

The only issue I have with Evo is that it is higher in calories (due to being better quality). I had to do a bit of math to figure out how much to feed Willy because he packs on the pounds very very easily. He was eating 3-4 cans of FF a day and still complaining for more despite watering it down quite a bit (not after a few hours but IMMEDIATELY after finishing). I was super concerned that a reduction in food (to compensate for increased calories) would really affect him because he's just not typical in how food driven/obsessed he is. He gets 2.5-2.7oz Evo (measured with a kitchen scale) + 1/2 can of FF per meal (2 meals a day). The reduced food does annoy him, but we're dealing with it. My civvies get 1.5-1.7oz Evo + 1/2 can of FF per meal and it seems like just enough. We go through a large can of Evo in about 3 meals (sometimes more).

Since I changed to Evo, I have been really focused on calorie content of various foods because it can be quite different, especially as the quality gets better. I was SO SHOCKED when I read the feeding guidelines on Evo: Half a (13oz) can per 7lbs of body weight! Willy is 15.5lbs! That would be over a full can!!!! That's OVER 500 calories!!! That's HALF of what I eat in a day!! How crazy!
 
Since you are feeding three cats, you might want to feed a sampling of food. That way everyone gets to eat a variety of food. I gradually introduce foods. Start with something like Friskies or Fancy Feast that they like. Then add some Evo or Wellness or Merrick, whatever you can find and afford. Improves the quality, but doesn't break the bank. Also, initially some of the higher quality foods can be a little rich for some tummies.

I take a can of Wellness and divide it into 8s and then add a few cans Friskies divided into 8's. Yes, I'm feeding eight cats plus two more. Sometimes I use EVO instead of Wellness for a week or so. And occasionally I use a can of Merricks Cowboy Cookout instead of one of the cans of Friskies.

Good luck with your food changes.

Claudia
 
cjleo said:
Since you are feeding three cats, you might want to feed a sampling of food. That way everyone gets to eat a variety of food. I gradually introduce foods. Start with something like Friskies or Fancy Feast that they like. Then add some Evo or Wellness or Merrick, whatever you can find and afford. Improves the quality, but doesn't break the bank. Also, initially some of the higher quality foods can be a little rich for some tummies.
Click to expand...

I thought about trying this, but with the Bengal having such a sensitive tummy, I don't want to be switching their food too much. I also don't want to separate him from the others when it's time to eat. It's just so much easier to have them all eating the same thing.

So far, they all LOVE the new food! I give the Bengal a little yogurt in the morning, and I think he loves that part the most. We'll increase the wet food ratio a little more tomorrow, to about 25%. They are liking the Wellness food quite a bit, so that's very promising! Jack was also talkative this morning, which makes me feel like he's feeling a little better.

When I went price shopping at Petco and Petsmart the other day, I found that the 15.5 ounce cans of Wellness ended up costing the same per ounce (about .20) as Fancy Feast. We're using the 5.5 ounce cans for now, until they are all completely switched over so it doesn't dry out so quickly in the fridge.

I also wrote to the people at Wellness, and they are sending me some coupons! Gotta love the power of the written word!!
 
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