Newly Diagnosed Schizo Siamese

[Harry1]

New to the board here and looking for advice/suggestions. We have an almost 13 year old Siamese that's just been diagnosed with Diabetes. Bill's up to about $500 so far for diagnostics and a few other routine things. As a little background on this sweety, she also has the habit of urinating in places she's not supposed to and just recently left a few puddles on the hardwood floor. She's ruined more dollars worth of worth of carpet than we like to think about. We have a litter box with a piece of carpet in it that gets changed every day in the bedroom, one more like it in the family room, and two regular litter boxes down in the basement. When she's at the vet it's taken two assistants to hold her down while the vet just looks at her teeth- he said she'd have to be anesthetized to have her teeth cleaned (she has one bad tooth). To say she gets stressed out at the vets is putting it mildly. One of her vets prescribed Prozac for her, but giving her a pill would be just about impossible. On the good side of things, she's a very lovable cat- loves laptime, and is literally imprinted on my fiance. She'll actually sit next to her and stare at her while we're reading the paper. She'll also sit upstairs and wail (and when Siamese wail they WAIL). We're torn as to what to do about her- we love her and would like to strangle her at the same time. We have two other cats- another Siamese which she's best buddies with and a Maine Coon cat that gets hissed and swatted at (the Maine nonchalantly just gets out of the way and doesn't take it to heart).

Now we have a Diabetes diagnosis on top of all this. Right now she doesn't appear to be suffering, but we don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on testing by the vet and trying to do the ear pricks talked about here at home doesn't sound too feasible. Putting her down because it doesn't fit in with *our* quality of life sounds heartless, but when is enough enough? It seems like our vet wants to do test after test and he's not cheap. We'd actually like to find a vet who might be a little less aggressive with the testing thing.
Any and all advice appreciated.

thanks for listening.

Dirck

 

[hmjohnston]

Welcome to the Board!

A few things to start off with... Its a long list- sorry!

The correct insulin-
The better insulins are Levemir (get the pens), Lantus (get the pens), and ProZinc- they cost more but they are worth it and have excellent track records. Not so good (and vet favs) are Humulin and Canisilun (made for DOGS) so if the vet prescribes ask for the first three instead and refuse to pay for the other two.

The correct FOOD-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened. You also should consider feeding several small meals throughout the day. Not only is a diabetic cat losing weight- the reason is because they are literally starving, unable to get the nutrients out of the food they are eating. Give more food in small meals and your cat will slow down once they start getting the nutrients out. All of your kitties can eat the same food unless they have specific diets they need to follow- and there WILL be someone on the board that knows the best food for a diabetic and what ever else you have :lol:

Home testing- This is far cheaper than getting your testing done at the vet. For just one day of 'cures' at the vet you can purchase all of the supplies needed to test EVERYDAY at home for a month- easily. Plus the cat would be stressed at the vet and you say she is a lovable lap kitty at home so you could incorporate that into your routine easily.
You need to get a glucometer to test your cat- a human one is fine and reliable to use. It reads different than the pet ones but all you really need is the consistency of the levels day in and day out. You might be able to get a free one- there is a spot just at the top of every page that says home testing kits. Here is a link to what's inside:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you purchase one here is a list from Consumer Reports:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140

You need to look at the ones that have the cheapest strips- not the cheapest meter. The meter you will buy once, the strips you will continue to purchase over and over again. A lot of people on the board use the Relion micro/confirm meters from Wal-mart because the strips are the cheapest around- $.36 each and usually easy to get (and you can get the strips even cheaper online through the ADW site). Bayer is another popular one. Stay away from the generic kinds that have the word TRUE in the name- those are inaccurate at higher #'s or don't go above 299- and another bad one is the Freestyle Light with the butterfly on the strips- both of these have led many pet owners to believe their cats were okay when they were really in trouble. And you can do your own curves at home when you hometest- that is cheaper than doing it at the vet.

To keep up with the BG #'s there is a spread sheet (SS) that we link to our signature line. Here is the link to set up:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Incidentals-
- I would suggest getting ketosticks (found in the diabetic supply aisle) to test your kitty for ketones that lead to DKA- this is a very serious and deadly (and EXPENSIVE) illness. For $7 you get 50 strips- the best insurance against ketones possible. If you catch it early the easier it is to treat.
- Lancets- for your first box go for the lowest gauge you can find- 26 or 28. His ears won't bleed that much at the start. There are so many u-tube videos out there that can show you how to test the ear. You can either use the lancet pen or free-hand. I free-hand as I feel like I have more control over the pointy end. After the first box is used up you can switch to 31 gauge.
- TREATS! In the videos you see the cats eager to be tested. That is because they are shamelessly bribed into sitting still because of a yummy treat that is given after testing. Freeze-dried chicken, beef, shrimp are no carb treats and there are others out there that get used as well. Give this treat ONLY a poke time- tests or shots. Your cat might not care for treats, mine never did. She just knows it comes before her food


Litter box... maybe she has crystals or something that makes her avoid the box when she needs to go? Sounds like you have enough of them around the house. Adding water to her canned food is a great way to introduce water into her diet- I add as much as the amount of food I give her, makes it soupy. This helps to clear up any thing but it is something to check on. If she knows it is painful going to the box she may want to avoid the box because she associates it with pain.

And as for the pill- there is a lovely little item called a pill pocket that cats are supposed to LOVE to eat. But it is safe to give diabetics only one flavor so someone else will chime in on those as I have never used them :lol: . But other kitties on the board do get Prozac and it made them easier and nicer to be around other cats.

As for testing- what tests does he want to do? You've got the diagnosis- is it curves- home testing gives more accurate results and are far cheaper. Most people get the information here and only take their FD for shots and yearlies.


Good luck on the sugar dance!

Edited to correct links.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Welcome! Believe me, I know how Siamese can wail, and Bandit's not even that talkative for a Siamese cat!

Diabetes is a very manageable disease, and would certainly not recommend putting her to sleep. It's also not terribly expensive to treat if you're home testing. Your biggest expenses are going to be insulin and test strips. You want to get Lantus (glargine) or Levemir (detemir), because these insulins have the best remission rates in cats. The initial insulin investment is going to be a couple hundred dollars for pens or $130 for the vial, but you need to consider that the pens will last you 6 months to a year, or the vial will last 2-3 months, So that makes the monthly insulin cost around $15-$30 for the pens (more economical than the vial), or $40-$65 a month for the vial. For testing, get the Relion Confirm, Micro, or Prime at Walmart. You can get really good deals on strips for the first two on the American Diabetes Wholesale web site, and the third has the cheapest in-store strips.

Many vets prescribe Humulin N (NPH). DO NOT accept a prescription for this insulin even though it's cheaper, because it will cost you dearly in the long run. While it works well for dogs, it is dangerous and ineffective in treating diabetes in cats.

There is no need for any vet testing if you are home testing. I was lucky in that my vet told me I had to home test from the beginning, so apart from the bloodwork and urinalysis, I never paid for a single test at the vet. However, you will want to get her problem teeth pulled ASAP--dental problems and diabetes go hand in hand, and you won't be able to get her blood sugar under control until you have the dental done. I know dentals can be pricy, but it's very important because her diabetes won't get better until you get her mouth fixed. Siamese cats are especially prone to FORLs, and the only way to fix the problem is to have the problem teeth pulled. Bandit only has two teeth left because of this, but he is also off insulin and 100% diet controlled. The ONLY way to properly do a dental is to put the cat under anesthesia. There is no way the vet can get deep enough to properly clean the teeth without the cat being under.

If you give a low carb treat after every test, even fractious cats accept the testing after a couple weeks. Bandit fought me tooth and nail the first two weeks to the point where I had to wrap him in a blanket like a burrito to test him, and now he runs to me when he hears the glucose meter beep on, lies down and starts purring. Cats have very few nerve endings in their ears so pain isn't the reason they dislike testing at first. It's because you're doing something new and scary and they sense your fear and nervousness. Once you both get used to it, everything is fine.

You can feed any low carb, canned food (ditch the dry for both cats) in whatever price range you can afford. There are a ton of options. The grain-free, low carb store-brand pates at both Walmart and Petsmart come in 13 oz cans and are generally cheaper than feeding most dry foods. One popular food here are the grain-free, low carb flavors of Fancy Feast: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm. It's are a good mid-priced food that's easy to find and most cats love it.

With the right diet (low carb canned), the right insulin (Lantus or Levemir), and the right dose adjustments via daily home testing, newly diagnosed cats have an 84% chance of remission.

 

[Maggies Mom Debby]

I suggest having the bad teeth taken care of right away. You see, stress and pain can cause high blood glucose readings. So treating her bad tooth and finding out if she has crystals or a UTI could both be very important of her successful treatment.