Newly Diagnosed- Nova

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Nova

New Member
Nova our lovable orange tabby was diagnosed with diabetes a week ago. We took him to the vet when he lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time. He was eating and drinking a lot, but still losing weight. We were confused because he was still happy and energetic. It turns out his sugar was over 500. The vet prescribed 3 units of Lantus after each meal. He is eating DM Purina dry food right now, but after doing some reading on this site we will transition him to wet food.

He went to his check up yesterday and his blood sugar was a bit lower and he had gained a pound. The vet does not seem to be concerned with home blood testing, but I would feel more comfortable if we got into the habit. Nova will go for another check up next week.

Nova seems a little weak from all of this. My husband is concerned because Nova can't seem to jump onto the bathroom sink the way he used to.

Wet Food Question: is there an advantage to the Rx foods over the other foods? Do the Rx foods have extra vitamins necessary to a diabetic cat? I noticed in Janet & Binky's chart that there are many other brands of food that offer less carbs than the Rx Hills MD. I have no idea what to choose, there are so many options!!!

This site is great, thank you!
Chrissy and Shawn (Nova's parents)
 
Hi Chrissy, Shawn and Nova!
Welcome to the best site you could ever find for help in dealing with feline diabetes.

Food is the easiest thing to answer, so I'll start there. Nova will do best if you put him on a low-carb all wet food diet. Most people here seem to use Fancy Feast Classics or Friskees pates. Stay away from any that say "gravy" or shredded, as they have higher carbs. Bob, my sugarcat, eats FF classics exclusively. He was put on Hills Prescription Diet M/D, wet and dry by the vet. Once I found this site, that went back to the vet, I saved a ton of money, and Bob has thrived.
He was also over 500 with other problems as well when diagnosed.

Encouraging that Nova has already begun to gain weight back. In order to effectively treat a sugarcat, you need him to be eating well so that he can deal with the doses of insulin.

Insulin - I won't be the only one to tell you that 3u to start is a rather high dose. We all go by the theory of "start low, go slow" meaning low starting doses and small increment changes to the dose when needed. When you combine a high dose of insulin with a radical change to low-carb food, the result can be that the blood glucose drops too quickly. I am sure others, particularly Lantus users, will chime in with something along these same lines. Bob uses PZI, so I don't really know much about Lantus.

Home testing - it is the best possible thing you can do to help Nova deal with this. Not only will it give you a much greater feeling that you are in control of his treatment, but it will also save you a ton of money. Also, testing at home will be easier on Nova. Vet visits are stressful. Stress drives up BG readings, meaning the numbers your vet gets will be higher due to stress. That could also result in an insulin dose instruction that is too high a dose.

What you need to do now is do some browsing and reading. Post on the Lantus board so they know they have a new member. People here are completely and totally awesome! They will help in anyway they can, and are here around the clock to help and answer any questions you might have.

I'm going to let someone else get in a word edgewise.
Again, welcome!

Carl in SC
 
Oh, forgot one thing...
the back leg weakness. that is fairly common. I can't remember the medical term for it, but I am sure someone will post it shortly. Bob experienced it mildly also. Ah, peripheral neuropathy. It is in section 7 of the FAQ. Bob's was caused by low potassium levels.
Make sure, if you haven't already, to read the FAQ which is stickied towards the top of the screen. It will answer many of your questions.

Carl in SC
 
Hi Chrissy and Shawn,

Welcome to FDMB!! I am fairly new here too, but I have learned alot. One of the first things I learned was to stop the Rx food and swift to wet. I relay on Binky's chart a lot. The carbs column is what I go by. I try to by the food that are 7% carb or less, but I do have 2 cans of high carb food in case Casey goes HYPO.

As for the Nova not jumping like he used to sound like feline neuropathy. My Casey has it pretty bad too. It was actually researching the neuropathy that lead me to this site. Anyway, sometimes it get better from the insulin shots, but I read that some people give their cats Methyl B12.

I am sure more will come along to welcome and advise you.

Roberta
and Casey
 
Hi guys,

I'd just like to ditto what Carl's said, especially about the hometesting. I managed to get up and running within a week of diagnosis (9 weeks ago--OMG has it only been that long??), and Cheeky's a pretty fractious cat so I'm still amazed I was able to. I'm not saying she'll ever come willingly to be tested, but at least she co-operates now :-D

If I'm glad about anything it's the fact that I started testing even though I wasn't doing tight regulation, because after being on a new dose of 2u Lantus for 18 days in a cattery up until last Thursday, she's started throwing MUCH lower numbers--and if I hadn't been testing, I wouldn't have caught it and immediately lowered the dose on the spot. I've yelled for help from the Lantus board three times this week already, they are awesome. We're currently playing "how low can I go on 0.5u...?" and I'll be back to the vet after doing a glucose curve this weekend for evidence.

Re Nova's inability to jump as normal: I'm sure you've read, or you'll find it soon, that a degree of neuropathy in the hind legs happens a lot with diabetic cats (my girl is already arthritic so I didn't really notice but I'm sure she must have had a bit of it going on). If Nova was caught early, once his sugar settles down that should hopefully resolve.

Nice to meet you and hang in there :-D

Lesley, Cheeks and Master Bodie
 
Hi Chrissy and Shawn, welcome to FDMB.

What a lucky cat Nova is to you as furparents. It's great how much you've already learned.

I can't add to what's already been said except to say that hometesting is a great idea. Once you start, share your numbers with your vet, together you can watch Nova's progress and who knows, maybe your vet will have other cats get started with hometesting. You may also find that your dose of insulin might need to be reduced because if you feed the low carb, high protein canned food, Nova's BGs should come down naturally.

What was Nova eating before the diagnosis? Is there anything else going on with Nova? Are his teeth okay, did the bloodwork show anything, any infections? Some cats can have elevated sugar levels due to underlying conditions. A bad tooth, stress from a move, all kinds of things can increase BG.

When you feel ready you might want to read some information on Lantus from the insulin support group(ISG). My own vet prescribes Lantus but the proper storage and handling, that was something I had to learn here.

You can check out the ISG here:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9
 
Nova said:
The vet prescribed 3 units of Lantus after each meal. He is eating DM Purina dry food right now, but after doing some reading on this site we will transition him to wet food.
Click to expand...

Hi Chrissy and Shawn!

I want to chime in about the dose--3u of Lantus is WAY too high a starting dose to begin with, but if you're also changing the diet then this could lead to a dangerous hypoglycemic incident. The change from dry high carb food to wet low carb food can lower your cat's blood glucose by 100-200 points immediately. The generally accepted starting dose with Lantus for cats is 1u twice a day. Once the dry food is removed, most cats do not need much more than 1u. If you're eliminating dry food, I would urge you to start at 1u, not 3u.

I don't know why, but many vets do not recommend proper starting doses. They dose cats like they would a dog. Here is the dosing protocol for Lantus for cats: http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf. I printed it out when I switched vets and gave it to my new vet, so that she was clear that we were following this protocol. It is important because 80+% of newly diagnosed cats go into remission with the combination of Lantus, low carb wet food, and following this dosing protocol via home testing. It's also very safe for your cat. Here's a link to the article that discusses it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286. I have the full article if you want to print that out for your vet, too.

As for food recommendations, there is no advantage to having a prescription food except making money for your vet. In fact, the only prescription food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat is canned Purina DM (the canned Hills M/D is too high in carbs for a diabetic!). However, the quality of Purina DM's ingredients is the same as the lower costing commercial brands like Friskies, Special Kitty, and 9 Lives, and all of those brands have low carb options for a fraction of the price of the prescription food. Many people here feed the classic flavors of Fancy Feast because many cats seem love it and it's easier to find. If you're looking for a higher end cat food with better ingredients (which will still cost less than the prescription diet), then EVO, Merrick's, and Wellness all have low carb options. I found that buying EVO 95% in the big 13 oz cans at my local independent pet food store cost slightly less than feeding Fancy Feast, but the most important factor in choosing a wet food is that it's something your cat likes to eat, and is below 10% carbs (preferably below 8%).

Check out the Lantus forum, too: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9. The stickies in that forum have a ton of important information about the insulin you're using. It's a lot to digest, but believe me, it's worth it.
 
Hello to Chrissy & Sugar Shawn Boy,
I just wanted to share a no testing before shooting story about my wonderful Sugar Bean. I received my test kit from this site, tried a couple of time to get a test and failed....but still shooting 1 u of PZI..... The first time my testing abilities worked, it was +2 hours after her shot. The vet increased the amount due to a curve at his office to 2 units; however, I only increased to 1.25..so that is what she received that nite.....Anyway, +2 hours, my great little girl was only 27!!!! Lori, dear sweet Lori talked me thru the nasty mess that I made for 4+ hours....ppl here posting and providing great support.....I was able to get her numbers up into the 40's....thank God.......
At that time, I promised my Sugar Bean, I would NEVER EVER shoot again before testing!!!! Now, WE dont have to test that much because she is OTJ!!!!! Remission she is in!! Changing the food to fancy feast and no dry is what did this! GO BEAN GO...
Just wanted to share my story......BTW....Bean was DX in mid April and her last shot was 5/24~~~~~~~ I purchased a Relion from Walmart...very very cheap and doable.
 
cedric wa on Lantus for a month before going off the juice (as it's called here). I changed his diet to wet & canned grain free high protien and low carb food: wellness, Evo and Blue Buffalo Wilderness for the cann and BB Wilderness for the dry. They great gang here hept telling me to get rid of the dry and I finally did on 5/19. His numbers dropped about 100 points and 2 days later they were normal. he has not needed insulin since May 21. His injection amounts ranged from 1 unit at the beginning to about 2.5 units near the end (that's twice a day).

After giving my last cat Prescription Diet W/D for years (for her constipation issues), let me tell you it's a pain in the a** to have to get that stuff from the vet & expensive. You can find as much good food out there for less and eaiser to obtain. Start your cat with a new diet at 1 unit twice a day and PLEASE test before each injection. I am not great at testing (tried to test Cedric last night and couldn't get enough blood), but he goes to his spot when I take out his treats and sits there and purrs. He's not crazy about it, but it doesn't hurt (lancet is 28 gague) and he knows he will get treats when I am done.

Welcome to FDMB!
 
THANK YOU everyone! This site is most helpful! I just bought a blood testing kit, and we are reading up on the process. We understand how to get the blood sample and use the meter, but can't seem to figure out when is the best time to take the blood sample. I can only find the "curve" articles. Where do we start? Eek! Any advice is appreciated :)
 
at the very least you want to test before giving any insulin. that way you will at least not shoot insulin when it is not safe to do so. for instance, if you were to test tonight before kitty's shot and got a reading of 68, you would NOT give any insulin as you could seriously harm kitty by doing so.

then, once you figured out how to get blood, you could start doing your own curves, testing roughly every 2 hours one day or getting random spot checks in over several days. alot of people do this day in and day out but you don't have to do that if you don't want to but rather maybe one day a week or whatever. what your goal is as far as kitty goes, what insulin you are using, and when you feed all plays into how often you might want to test between shots.

does that help?
 
Hi and Welcome!
The most important times to test are always going to be before every shot. It's important to know bg before giving insulin so you will now how much to give.
Then of course are the spot checks.
+6- 6 hours after injection is always good to know, that will give you a number at nadir, the lowest kitty will go before the insulin starts wearing off and kitty starts going back up in the other direction.
other times can be anywhere for like +3 or 4 and like +8 or 9.
You will find after you have started testing, that you are going to become fascinated with learning how kitty is doing on the insulin and you will want to check her all the time. :lol:

But for now, I think just focusing on before each shot and 6 hours after.

Other will be along shortly, so I'll leave you with that for now. :-D
 
For certain, you test just before feeding and injecting the insulin.
Lantus is a 12 hour long-lasting insulin. You will need to shoot as close as possible to 12 hours apart. Most people work testing, feeding and shooting into a small window of time in the morning and evening, but it will depend on your schedule(s) to make the decision when to test and shoot.

For instance, I test/feed/shoot at 6am and 6pm every day. Bob eats then.
Nova can also eat at other times during the day, but you don't want to feed him within a couple hours of his next insulin shot. On my schedule, Bob wouldn't have any food or snacks after 3am and 3pm until his normal meal times.

Those are the two tests you must do every day - the ones before each shot. You will also learn that you should test at different intervals during the day to get an idea of how the insulin is working. But that can wait for another post. I'm sure somebody else will explain the spreadsheet and curves to you momentarily.

Carl in SC
 
Thanks! We will do our first test tomorrow morning. Should it be test/food/insulin or food/test/insulin? You guys are the best, thanks for your patience, I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Chrissy
 
do test/food/insulin because if you do it food/test/insulin, then you get a food effected glucose level which could cause you to increase the dose when it is actually unsafe to do so.

fwiw, testing while kitty is eating is fine and how many do it so as to distract kitty while you are poking their ears. food won't effect BG the moment it enters their mouth :-)
 
Alrighty then. First try was a failure, but the second and third went well! We decided to poke by hand just with just the lancet and not with the pen. It was easier to control and aim that way. Nova's numbers are good, thank goodness. The neuropathy is still concerning. I did some reading and we will start him on methyl B12 tomorrow. I am going to do further research on Lantus too. Thanks everyone for your support! I will see you around :)
 
Awesome to hear that things are going well! Have you introduced yourself on the Lantus forum? You can get good advice specific to lantus and dosing by posting there (Under the Insulin Support Groups header, you'll see one forum for each insulin type)

Keep us posted!

Carl
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top