NEWLY DIAGNOSED DOESN'T TEST

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TOOTERS MOM

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Tooter, our girl kitty, age 7, diagnosed with a count of 497 on 9-12, no evidence of organ damage or other problems. We are 40 minutes away from home during the week from 7:00 a.m. to about 7:00 p.m. After several Vet trips for testing, we are settled (for now) on I Unit Pro Zinc in the a.m. and 1 Unit in the p.m. And you can see that her shots are not going to be EXACTLY 12 hours apart...but close. In the ball park.

Tooter and I are adjusting well to the shots (with usual Newbee freakouts), but we don't test. Tooter eats the "good " wet food and teeny amounts of "good" dry food (stolen from our other girl kitty who thinks wet food is garbage but we are weaning her over slowly) and TOOTER is doing SUPER. Total change in activity levels and contentment. Obviously MUCH better. Realize her dose is low compared to some I read on this board and not sure we have dosage right yet. But litter looks good (no big pee clumps) as does water bowl and she is a happy kitty, playing and running as she has not done in a long time. Is the 1 Unit dose something we do not have to worry about? I am most interested in what others think about what we are doing...am I taking a risk with Tooter --- giving her a shot in the a.m. and leaving for the day? If her numbers start improving -- will catching that at the Vet when Tooter goes in for testing (now every few weeks, but I would expect that to change to monthly and then every 3 months) be adequate? Our Vet has said she expects Tooter to be an excellent candidate to honeymoon (if I am referring to no shots correctly).

Want to add that this Board has helped me tremendously over the last several weeks as I have lurked, picking up help and encouragement. Thank you all. TOOTERS MOM.
 
It's great that Tooter has improved with less urination, less drinking and more energy. Your one unit dose twice daily is a good place to start.

I would suggest you need to start testing at home for 2 reasons. First, many times, cats improve with insulin and a better diet, and start needing less insulin. Without testing, you will have no way of knowing when and if that day comes. With Oliver, we stopped dry and started wet and his numbers went down 100 points overnight. If we hadn't been testing and had just shot the regular dose, he would gone into hypothermia. The other scenario is that a little more insulin could mean better numbers for Tooter and lead to regulation and maybe remission. There is no way to know that with testing. I always wanted to know what Oliver's numbers were before I gave the shot.

The other problem is that if the vet is the only one doing the testing, and his numbers are used to determine the dose, the dose can be too high. Most cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises bg levels. If doses are based on those numbers, then when the cat gets home, the dose can be too much.

We can teach you to test at home. We taught hundreds of people over the internet. Or maybe we have a member who lives near you and could help you with the first tests. If you want help, tell us your city and state.

The vet who posts here compared giving insulin without testing to driving down the freeway with a bag over your head. I always thought it was a great analogy.
 
To be quite honest, anytime insulin is given even if it a very low dose, you are playing russian roulette, if you aren't testing before those shots. I have two diabetics that I adopted as diabetics, Maxwell I would have sent into hypo if not killed him even though he was on only 1unit of Lantus every 12 hours...why? Because he dropped from 485 when he was diagnoised to in remission and off insulin in the matter of 2 short weeks. Since I had also only had Maxwell for a few days at that point, it had taken a couple of weeks to have him transported to me from Virginia to Nebraska, I didn't know him very well yet and if not for home testing I know I wouldn't have caught early signs of hypo in him.

Even my second diabetic Musette who is still insulin dependent somedays will be well in the 200s but every now and then it will be time for her shot and she will not be high enough to give a full dose to and I have to wait and retest in a few minutes until she is high enough...No vet appointment to check her levels is going to catch that kind of information that I have at my fingertips by testing at home. I know within seconds if she is high enough to safely give insulin to or not. Plus it allows me to test her before leaving for an evening out, without having to worry about her while I am gone.

I think the best piece of advice I have ever been given here is....Giving insulin without testing at home is like putting a bag on your head and driving a car on the freeway. Testing at home is very easy once you get the hang of it and only adds a few seconds to the day. Far less time than it takes to drag your cat to the vet, and pick them back up again. Plus curves done at the vet's office really tell you very little because stress raises blood sugar levels, and just about every cat out there is under some degree of stress while at the vet's. Even if they love their vets, there are barking dogs, strange people, animals, smells, and noises. But the levels you see at home are far more accurate.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Welcome Tooter's Mom, and Tooter too!

Of the three insulin types used by the overwhelming majority of people here (Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc/PZI), Prozinc/Pzi is the one that is least dependent on an exact 12 hour apart dosing schedule. It works differently than the "L's" do in that it is a "one shot" type of insulin - once it is injected, it does its thing, and then it is "gone". The other types build a reserve (referred to as a "shed") in kitty's body, which the body uses as needed, and the daily shots refill the "shed".
PZI still needs to be dosed as close to 12 hours as possible apart, which insures that insulin is present in Tooter's body for the majority of the day and night.
That's sort of a simple way of explaining the different insulins and how they work. I was a PZI user, so I am really not all that familiar with the "L" insulins other than what I've learned here. If I didn't get it quite right, an "L" user will steer you right.

We definitely don't encourage what we call "shooting blind", no matter what type insulin is used. We encourage at the very least that you test the blood glucose before each and every shot. It is the only really safe way to know that the dose is not too high (or too low). 1 unit of PZI is a normal starting dose, and if you have any numbers from the vet for any of Tooter's test, that would help us to know for sure whether it seems like a logical dose. I will tell you this - there are cats here who started at 1 unit and needed increases along the way. I know my Bob went up to 4u BID (twice a day in boardspeak) and others higher than that. BUT, I know that there are several current PZI cats, many who post daily in the PZI forum, that shoot much lower doses than 1 unit. As low as .2 units per shot.
Every Cat Is Different - ECID - you will hear that all the time here. It really depends on the kitty, and what his/her numbers are. The "right dose" is different for every kitty. There's no way for us to know for sure if 1u is too much, too little or just right for Tooter today without BG numbers. AND, without testing, it is almost impossible for you to know if it is the right amount tomorrow, or next week, or next month. A weekly or monthly test at the vets, assuming it is the right kind of test, can be valuable if you are not home testing for every shot. If it's just an ear-poke and a glucometer test, a test at the vet won't really be of much use. That type of test measures BG at that moment in time. It'd be different an hour later. And, most tests done at the vet tend to be too high a number, due to stress caused by the fact that kitty is at the vet to begin with. Stress elevates BG, sometimes drastically, depending again, on the cat.

Bottom line? Please consider home testing. At first it's intimidating, scary, what have you. But after you've done it a few times, it's a minute of your day, and very routine. For you, and for Tooter.


What I find very encouraging in your post is the remarks that Tooter shows such positive outward signs that she is feeling better. We call them the "Five P's" - purring, peeing, playing, preening and pooping. A sugarcat at diagnosis shows pretty much the opposite of what you hope for. They don't purr play or preen. They pee all over the place, and pee lakes. If Tooter is playing, and acting more like her old self, that is a very positive indication that the insulin is working, and that things are healing.

You do have to know what is going on on the inside too, so please think about starting to home test. It's the best thing you can do for her and for you, in order to successfully manage her diabetes.

Welcome to the board!
Carl
 
These are great answers, I can see that I am "playing with fire," I can call my vet Monday and probably get whatever I need for home testing....I think there are items recommended here too, I could stop by the pharmacy tomorrow on the way home from work and pick up whatever I need. There is a different test -- fructosamine and ALC? I could have those done? Would they be helpful? She has been on insulin a little over 4 weeks now -- though a week or so was not at the 1 Unit day and night, but eventually we got there. Tooter's last vet test 4 hours after eating and injection was 369. But that was at the vet and force-feeding (I didn't know about that until it was done).

If it makes any newly diagnosed owners feel better....neither Tooter or I liked giving/taking the shots when we first started. Both our girls are rescues, Tooter as a tiny half dead kitten and now she is a big beautiful but touchy kitty, with all that goes with it....she hated having to take the shots -- even though they didn't hurt...now she just lays there, sometimes a growls a little -- but most of the time she doesn't even know it's been done. My husband thinks she "knows" it helps....I'm not so sure, but her anger has completely disappeared and she seems to wait for her shot now.

But that was my hesitation on the testing, she has taken to the shots so well....I hated bringing something else to the table that she has to put up with. But I give her the shot then I'm gone for 10 hours -- I hate that. I do feel a little better knowing this insulin doesn't build up....my vet probably chose it because of that (and knowing we are gone all day). But if I take her in for a fasting test (1st thing in the a.m. before eating) and those numbers are good....then how would I know at the end of the day at home that night if the numbers are still good without testing myself...I guess I could take her in again the next morning. Gee, I've got to learn how to do this. No way around it. Thanks.
 
Any human meter will work just fine for testing at home. I have two diabetics and each have their own meters. Maxwell I use a Relion Micro that is Walmart's house brand, it is very cheap I think the meter was about $9 and the strips are cheapas well. If you have a Walmart nearby, the things you would need to pick up are a human meter, testing strips to fit that meter, lancets, and ketostixs to test her urine for ketones. Those few things and you would be all set to start testing, and all can be picked up at your Walmart for under $50.

All 13 of my cats are rescues. Maxwell was a Katrina rescue who was adopted by an elderly lady, then he became a diabetic about the same time as she needed to go into a nursing home. But the her family didn't want to be bother to treat his diabetes, and had scheduled him to be put to sleep, so I step up to adopt him. I started testing him within hours of him coming home with us. Now if I can do it with a cat that has absolutely no reason to trust me and we have still built a loving relationship (he sleeps curled around my head at night). Then think about how much easier of a time you will have with a kitty that already knows, loves and trusts you!

And I believe your husband is right, she does know that those shots makes her feel better, cats are smart that way. And once you start testing just make sure you have lots of low carb treats for her that she only gets at testing time. Both my diabetics now come running for their test when they here me unzip the testing kit, because for them a little poke in the ear means a yummy treat. So much so that Musette if I'm running late on her testing time will come and remind me. :-D She will come to wherever I am and meow at me then run and jump up on her testing spot.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Thank you Momma of Muse -- that's just the info I needed this morning before leaving for work, I have a list and I'll pick up what I need today and give it a try....I can always try. Treats are a problem, Tooter is not motivated by treats at all....she understands the give and take and many times decides "who needs it?" but maybe since she has been so cut back on carbs she will find them attractive....maybe...she LOVES attention from my husband, he may have to become a more active participant in her care. PS. Love the info on rescues, we do it when we can. We have been married 30 plus years and have had several kitty companions, we used to buy "name brand" kitties and they were wonderful -- I miss them still -- but these last 15 years have all been volunteers and rescues.
 
Maxwell isn't terribly treat driven either, but oh how he loves his brush, so when I was still testing him fairly often, his treat was an extensive brushing session. And my funny little diva Musette seems to only want her Momma to smell good...lol My mother just bought me a new bottle of my favorite perfume...the other day I had just got out of the shower and realized it was time to test Musette, but she was being a complete pill about it, batting at me, squirming etc. So I figured I would give it a rest, finish getting ready and try again. The minute I but on my perfume...my silly girl jumps up on her testing spot :roll: Okay Mom you can test me now..you smell nice again....sheesh cats!

Yeah I have had over the years many 'brand name' kitties as well, but then at some point, I still don't know when or how it happened, but there is now an invisible sign flashing above our house that only cats can see that says: Lost? Hungry? Cold? Sick? ...Stop here and put on your best sad face, there are crazy cat people here that will take you in.... :lol: And the funny thing is while none of them remembered to bring their pedigree papers or birth certificates with them I'm pretty sure at least a couple of them are 'brand name' cats. I know that at least one is, as her previous owners offered to give me her papers when I took her in as they were moving away and planning on just turning her loose in 20 below weather last winter. I didn't take the papers since I planned on having her spayed and thus didn't really care if she was a purebred or not, so her papers would have only been one more thing to stuff away in an already over-flowing file cabinet..lol.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
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