Newly Diagnosed Diabetic

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Colleen & Pantera

Colleen & Pantera

Member Since 2020
Hello, I have just joined today my cat is Pantera he is 7.5yrs 8kg big rescue boy.
He is out of control at present and hasn't been well. From exesive drinking and seeing to start, then got a cold with sneezing congestion and not eating to UTI and antibiotics which made him vomit and diaohreah. Got so bad over weekend with vomiting that I had to take him to vet for a anti naseua injection.
Then I took him Tuesday to another vet for a second opinion and his glucose level was 34 ( I'm in Australia) don't know what that is in other countries. So they started him on 6 units twice day he had been on 4 twice day lantus. Today I phoned original vet and we put him back on 4 units twice day hope this is right. I bought a glucose metre today also (No idea what to do,) that's why I'm here. He has been sleeping on my bed last 4 nights cause I have been so worried I would lose him. His appetite seems good last 2 day's so confused and scared and runnung on no sleep here please advise??
 
Sharon14 said:
Welcome! I’m sorry Pantera is feeling bad, but we can help you get him feeling better. I’ll tag @Bron and Sheba (GA) as she is in Australia. I’m glad you are willing to start testing his blood sugar, that’s really the best way to help him. Here is some info on home testing
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
What are you feeding Pantera? Is he still on antibiotics?
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Hi Sharon, no finished antibiotics his feed is science diet urinary he was having dry and wet but I have changed to just wet last couple days. He had a big operation at 2yrs for a blockage he had his tube widened and his pee pee removed so as to not have reoccurring crystals. So the poor big boy has been through a lot. I'm gonna try glucose test its been 4hrs since insulin and food.
 
Hi Colleen and Pantera and welcome!
I live in Australia also....Sydney.
First of all 6 units or even 4 units of Lantus is way too much to start a newly diagnosed cat on. Please don’t give that much insulin.
How is he at the moment?
Is he eating and drinking ok now?
What type of glucose meter did you get?
The Science Diet urinary is high carb, however changing over to a low carb diet (which is the best thing to do for a diabetic cat) will drop the blood glucose a lot so you need to be testing before you try and eliminate the high carb diet.

A BG of 34 in US numbers is 612. You multiply the number by 18. 34x18=612.
We can help you learn to test the blood glucose (BG).
It isn’t hard.

Did either of the vets mention ketones to you at all?
I think it would be wise if you could go to a chemist tomorrow and buy a bottle of Ketostix......most chemists will have them if they carry diabetic supplies. They cost about $12.
You will need to collect a urine sample from Pantera and then dip the test strip into the urine and read the result exactly 15 seconds later against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention. Hopefully he won’t have any but with a UTI and vomiting it would be a good idea to check for them to eliminate them.
I have more to tell you but will post this now. If you could answer my questions that would be very helpful.
You have come to the best place. We can help you get Pantera sorted out.
Bron
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Colleen and Pantera and welcome!
I live in Australia also....Sydney.
First of all 6 units or even 4 units of Lantus is way too much to start a newly diagnosed cat on. Please don’t give that much insulin.
How is he at the moment?
Is he eating and drinking ok now?
What type of glucose meter did you get?
The Science Diet urinary is high carb, however changing over to a low carb diet (which is the best thing to do for a diabetic cat) will drop the blood glucose a lot so you need to be testing before you try and eliminate the high carb diet.

A BG of 34 in US numbers is 612. You multiply the number by 18. 34x18=612.
We can help you learn to test the blood glucose (BG).
It isn’t hard.

Did either of the vets mention ketones to you at all?
I think it would be wise if you could go to a chemist tomorrow and buy a bottle of Ketostix......most chemists will have them if they carry diabetic supplies. They cost about $12.
You will need to collect a urine sample from Pantera and then dip the test strip into the urine and read the result exactly 15 seconds later against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention. Hopefully he won’t have any but with a UTI and vomiting it would be a good idea to check for them to eliminate them.
I have more to tell you but will post this now. If you could answer my questions that would be very helpful.
You have come to the best place. We can help you get Pantera sorted out.
Bron
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Hi Bron I'm on Central Coast Pantera seems ok I bought a accuchek proforma just did a reading at 9.40pm which is 3.5hrs after eating and insulin and it's 4.9 is that ok?? He is eating (hungry)and drinking. He had a urinalysis about 10 days ago and no ketones that's how they discovered UTI and downhill since then. Vet said if he has another vomiting event he needs to go to.emergency vet for few days to be closely monitored. Boy this is a challenge, I feel so bad for him and blame me for letting him eat to much. His brother is coming to live with us next weekend for 6 months hope they get on and he dosent stress as they haven't been together for 5yrs. (My Son moving back home for 6mths) I just don't want to loose pp yet. I love him too much and it's scary ❤
 
Colleen66 said:
Hi Bron I'm on Central Coast Pantera seems ok I bought a accuchek proforma just did a reading at 9.40pm which is 3.5hrs after eating and insulin and it's 4.9 is that ok?? He is eating (hungry)and drinking. He had a urinalysis about 10 days ago and no ketones that's how they discovered UTI and downhill since then. Vet said if he has another vomiting event he needs to go to.emergency vet for few days to be closely monitored. Boy this is a challenge, I feel so bad for him and blame me for letting him eat to much. His brother is coming to live with us next weekend for 6 months hope they get on and he dosent stress as they haven't been together for 5yrs. (My Son moving back home for 6mths) I just don't want to loose pp yet. I love him too much and it's scary ❤
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The accuchek preforma is a good meter. Well done getting a test in so quickly.
4.9 is quite low for +3.5 (we talk in +hours after the insulin shots here because we are all over the world and that is the best way to know exactly what time everyone is talking about)
I would give Pantera a small snack of low carb canned food now and test again in 1hour after the last test to see if he is going up or down. Post the result and I will watch for it. Normal BG levels for a Non diabetic cat are 2.8 to 6.6 although most vets like to run diabetic cats higher than that.
I’ll post this so you can feed him the. I will write more.
 
I know it is scary in the beginning especially if they are also sick. But you have come to the best possible place for help and support. This is a great community with lots of very knowledgeable people here who have looked after their diabetic cats 24/7. It is a steep learning curve in the beginning but we have a huge amount of information here for you to read and we encourage you to ask lots of questions.

First of all I think you need to reduce the dose of insulin otherwise you run the real risk of a hypo giving 4 units twice a day to a newly diagnosed cat. I would reduce it to 1 unit twice a day and hold the dose for 7 days unless he drops under 2.8 (50 US) in which case you would reduce the dose. Because Lantus is a depot insulin , the dose builds up over several days and you won’t see the full effect immediately...more about the depot below.
I would also really like it if you would get the ketostix and test the urine for ketones while the dose is being adjusted and he is higher than normal. It is a simple test but catching ketones early saves the cat from getting the much more serious keto acidosis.

Lantus is a depot insulin which means it leaves a small amount of the dose under the tissues for later use. This depot builds up over the first 7 days and then as you need to adjust the dose, you need to hold subsequent doses for at least 3 days for the depot to stabilise. Lantus is a long acting insulin which is great for cats but it needs to be used properly to get the best results.
We increase the dose in 1/4 unit increments so we don’t go past the best dose and it’s safer for the cat. You will find most vets increase the dose in whole unit increments.
Always test before every shot you give to make sure it is save to give the dose. And then test during the cycle to see how low the dose is taking Pantera. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir which is the lowest point in the cycle.......usually somewhere between +4 and +7
In the beginning we recommend you don’t shoot if the BG is lower than 11(200) but stop and think. We suggest you stall, don’t feed and post and ask for advice and test again in 20 minutes.

If you could get your signature set up...it is simple...and it will appear at the bottom of all your posts and tell us all about Pantera and we won’t have to keep bugging you with questions. Go to the top right of this page and click on your user name. Look for signature. Click on it,
Tell us Pantera’s name and date of diagnosis, type of insulin and meter, type of food given, any other medications or conditions and save.

Also we have a super spreadsheet that you can enter the BG numbers in. We always look at those when we help you. I will send you the link, if you have any trouble settling it up (I did) there is someone who will help you do it. Here is the link
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Here is a link for new members
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

And here is a link for Aussie Caregivers
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/information-for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/

I hope I haven’t overloaded you with information. It will take a while for it all to make sense...but it will eventually!
Bron
 
I can't do it :arghh: he has had enough and won't let me anymore. I'll just keep an eye on him and let him sleep with me again. Thankyou for your help at least his dose was lower tonight. I'll try again in the morning after he has a break from it. It looked so easy....
 
I would give him some more food then, in case he has dropped lower. You won’t see any hypo signs until they are very low.
Always have some honey available in case you need to rub some on his gums.
It is good to give a good meal before the shot, then give several smaller snack during the cycles.
For example feed at preshot, then +2 and +4 and +6 OR + 2 + and +5 and +7 so that they get food when the insulin is strongest. Do this during the evening cycle as well.

Please reduce the dose tomorrow to 1 unit twice a day.
Hope to talk to you tomorrow
Bron
 
Colleen66 said:
I can't do it :arghh: he has had enough and won't let me anymore. I'll just keep an eye on him and let him sleep with me again. Thankyou for your help at least his dose was lower tonight. I'll try again in the morning after he has a break from it. It looked so easy....
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I know it is frustrating now. It does get much easier with time. The capillaries in the ear learn to grow and you will find it much easier soon.
Always give him a treat even if you don’t get blood and do it in the same spot. He will soon learn to associate the testing with treats.
As soon as Sheba heard me start to get the testing equipment out, she would race to the kitchen as she knew she would get a treat.
 
Earprick.jpg
 
After you prick the ear get a cotton round and press lightly on it to stop the bleeding about 10 seconds or so
If you are testing free hand try to go go in with the lancet on a 45 degree angle.
Also in the US we use Neosporin Pain Relief Ointment to put on the ears, just a little bit. Do Not Buy The Cream, Must Be The Ointment, it may be called something different in Australia, best of luck
On YouTube you can watch some videos on how to test BG on the ears
Type in on YouTube How to test my cats blood sugar levels, I see a lot of videos you can watch
 
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Hi everyone, thanks for your suggestions still not getting readings. I have tried warm rice in sock I have pricked this ear so much and I can't get blood out wether I massage it push it or poke it. There is just no blood there. I will have to wait till I see the vet next week.
 
Is Pantera dehydrated? That can make the blood flow sluggish.
Vomiting can cause dehydration.
Try the "skin tent" test. Pull up gently on a bit of skin. It should return back to normal very quickly if your cat is NOT dehydrated.
Or check the gums. Press your finger against the gums, should turn white then pink right back up if NOT dehydrated.
Gums will feel tacky if your cat is dehydrated.

Have you tried a double poke, two pokes very close together?

Have you tried getting blood from the paw pad? That is an alternate testing site for cats.
 
Hi Deb and Wink, doesn't seem dehydrated. Where bouts on his paw pad and how deep? I did stick his paw this morning but nothing although he was squrming and winging so I didn't push it. Will it be more open to infection on his paw? I just want some blood
 
Here's a video (the only one I know of) showing someone testing on the pawpad. One thing to check is the gauge of the lancets you're using. New ears (and paws) are harder to get blood from because they're not "trained to bleed". Using a larger sized lancet like 25-28 (usually marked for "alternate site testing") will poke a bigger hole and be more likely to work.

As you poke more and more, new capillaries will grow into the area you've been poking to "heal the injury" so it really will get easier!
 
Colleen66 said:
Woohoo I got blood‍
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Now that you're getting some test numbers, we need to get you going on the spreadsheet! If you want to give it a try, here's the instructions!

I'd be happy to do it for you if you need some help! Just send me a PM by clicking on my name and choosing "start a conversation" so I can get some information.

You'll need to do your "Signature" too....to do that just click on your name (top right of the page) and there's a drop down menu to choose "Signature" from. A new box will open for you to enter information like:

Your name/cat's name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health issues or medications?

That way we don't have to keep asking the same questions over and over....and if it's an emergency like a hypo, we don't want to have to waste time asking!
 
I haven't dropped it as it's weekend and I haven't talked to vet. It was so high I am to scared to lower it. I will try a test at 6.30pm before feeding him. Hoping it is settling they had him up to 6 units twice day we are 4 units twice day at present since Friday pm.
 
You need to get that SS up and running. Why don’t you PM Chris now she has offered to help you. She’s online at the moment.
Because Lantus is a depot insulin, the dose takes up to 6 cycles for the full effect to be seen and I am concerned 4 units is too much.
Most cats start out at 1 unit.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You need to get that SS up and running. Why don’t you PM Chris now she has offered to help you. She’s online at the moment.
Because Lantus is a depot insulin, the dose takes up to 6 cycles for the full effect to be seen and I am concerned 4 units is too much.
Most cats start out at 1 unit.
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Hi Bron he did start on 1 unit for 7days and his levels didn't change so they put him to 2 units for another week and he went higher so the put him up to 4 and vet said he wasn't concerned with a low as his body weight is all fat. So that's what's happening at moment. He has just come good and stopped vomiting. Vet said if any more episodes he will need to go into 24hr emergency care so hence why so am freaking out here.I will contact chris now.
 
Just some food for thought... It's much less risky to start at a lower dose of insulin and work your way up to a larger dose than to start with a big dose of insulin and risk a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. The latter requires an emergency vet visit.

Insulin is not a trivial medication. Hypoglycemia can kill your cat. If you cannot reliably get a blood test, I would strongly encourage you to lower the dose. You are getting pre-shot tests in lower ranges. In the case of a newly diagnosed cat, I would suggest getting tests starting at 2 hours after a shot. It's the only way to guarantee that your cat is safe.
 
Hi Sienne and Gabby, I was able to get the spreadsheet Chris did it for me I have started testing got blood this evening and rang the vet before his shot it’s now dropped down to 3 units so I will see how he goes. I needed to use a bigger gauge needle and it worked fine. Hopefully it will work again it’s a bit hit and miss cause I am new at this. Do you know how I fill the spreadsheet in on a iPad? I can’t seem to edit. I am planning on testing him soon so I can watch him carefully. I am happy the insulin is lower. Thank you for your advise
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You need to get that SS up and running. Why don’t you PM Chris now she has offered to help you. She’s online at the moment.
Because Lantus is a depot insulin, the dose takes up to 6 cycles for the full effect to be seen and I am concerned 4 units is too much.
Most cats start out at 1 unit.
Click to expand...
Hi Bron, I got the spreadsheet going and used a larger gauge needle with success. He has dropped to 3 units now so I will keep an close eye on him and hopefully get some more readings.
 
You edit the spreadsheet from your Google email account. The version of the spreadsheet that you still need to link to your User Id "Signature". The Signature version, is a "view only" version.

You need some apps on your Ipad or smartphone. Go to the App Store if you have an Apple device or to Google Play if you have an Android device. Download Google Chrome, Google Drive, and Google Sheets apps onto your device.

Instructions for doing that "signature" link are in this document, where the setup instructions are, for the setup of the spreadsheet. Simply click on the blue text, and it will take you to the instructions >>>> FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

What the cells mean is here >>>>>> Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
How are thinks going @Colleen & Pantera ? Still can’t see the SS.
Great you are now getting blood!!
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@ Bron and Sheba Hi Bron, yes I am getting blood under duress.. I have lowered his lantus dose and we had a low 2 day's ago. I have his brother moving in with us today so I got feliway difuser( hope it calms them). We are transitioning food, haven't had dry for 7 days woohoo. I don't know where to attach the spreadsheet if I put the link under signature then I will have to delete a lot of info. I will attach it and see if you can read it.
Take care thanks for checking up on us colleen @ pantera
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...792wVKocuPdCcxLmZWeK0mkevyQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
 
You can shorten the name on the SS, once you have it linked in your "signature".

Simply highlight the entire link, copy it to a safe place (CTRL C), type in the new name like "Pantera's SS", click on the little chain icon in the editing bar across the top of the post. A window will pop up. Paste the saved SS link URL (CTRL V) in the box to insert the link and then click on Insert. Save your signature again.

Health links/FAQ's forum
 
Shorten your information from this:
My Cat is Pantera he is 7.5yrs is on lantus 3 units twice day and he weighs 8.2kg science diet urinary and pro plan focus urinary wet Glucometer it's accu-chek proforma human one.

To this:

Colleen and Pantera, 7.5yrs,8.2kg,Lantus, human meter, (current food whatever that is)

We're used to reading signatures so you don't need to write in a "conversational" way. Just the facts, ma'am
 
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